Beheading Suspect Fired After Argument Over Stoning Women

a reply to: tavi45

I've said this before and I find it important for this discussion once again.

conservative estimates put the number of extremist jihadi's at 20%.

Best estimates put world Muslim populations between 1.6 Billion and 2.1 billion.

That's between 320 million and 420 million possible extremist Muslims.

The popilation or the United States as of jan 1st 2014 was 317 million...

That's a serious number of possible asshats. This really needs to get figured out. The solution is way above my pay grade so I wouldn't even begin to speculate but "leave the peaceful Muslims alone" seems to be about the dumbest thing we could do.

Hell if you told me there was 320 million devout followers of a musician I'd say we need to keep an eye on them lol that's just a force to be reckoned with is all I'm saying if said force ever decides to go full retard.

And you bet your bum that a world wide "rise of the Muslim" would be a "full retard" move. They are on very very thin ice When it comes to public relations. One too many beheadings in the heartland is gonna end up putting a whole lot of people in a world of hurt, on all sides of the conflict..



QUICK PSA FOR ANY MUSLIMS READING THIS: you might want to start working really really really really hard trying to straighten your ship. Islam is on a bearing right now that's got a lot of people with powerful ordinance at their disposal none to happy. No matter what your dog in this fight is we don't want to see people get hurt. Lets dial down the rhetoric and maybe start working towards a better life. Just imagine if only a portion of the resources burned up in military conflict stemming from religious idealism was used for peaceful means... Utopia anyone?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Cuervo

Christian bible right here:

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God

I can dig up several more like this. Christians are cursed by their god for not killing unbelievers, as well. Christianity just had a few more centuries under its belt to reign in the psychopath extremism.

Don't compare scripture of Islam and Christianity and say one is violent and the other peaceful.

Except they are not put to death for being unbelievers, they are put to death for trying to turn believers away from God. It's a pretty big distinction.

Much like US law you can't kill someone just because they are armed .. only in self defense when they are threatening you. What you are doing is like saying US law let's you just kill people, it doesn't.

Just in that case. Like I said, I have plenty more.

Deuteronomy 17:12New International Version (NIV)

12 Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the Lord your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel.

2 Chronicles:

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their ancestors, with all their heart and soul. 13 All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.

In Deuteronomy, it even says to slay an entire city if even one person there worships another god.

It doesn't matter if they are trying to convert you or not.

Despite what either of the Scriptures say, Christians are not beheading innocent Westerners in the name of Christianity.. Muslims are doing exactly that in the name of Islam.. Because of what is written in the Quran..

I get that they don't like Western governments but no1 does!!!

And was Mohammed married to a 9 year old? Can someone show me something similar in the Bible or the Torah please?

And isn't Islam the newest of the three Abrahamic religions?

What's with the four wives as well, from an outside point of view it seems as though Muslims are designed to just reproduce and slaughter anything that isn't 100% Islam..

Keep beheading our innocent western civilians!!!! 200 Air Strikes and counting!!!!!!

originally posted by: tavi45
Um the Christian bible and Jewish Torah both contain many instances of violence against sinners and nonbelievers. So why is it only the Quran that takes the heat? For those of you lacking in education Islam is really not much different from Christianity or Judaism.

This whitewash proves you have no "education" in the subject at all. Muhammad beheaded the men and enslaved the women of an entire Jewish tribe. Who did Jesus behead? I am non-religious and I find your comparison foolishly naive.

originally posted by: SteveR

originally posted by: tavi45
Um the Christian bible and Jewish Torah both contain many instances of violence against sinners and nonbelievers. So why is it only the Quran that takes the heat? For those of you lacking in education Islam is really not much different from Christianity or Judaism.

This whitewash proves you have no "education" in the subject at all. Muhammad beheaded the men and enslaved the women of an entire Jewish tribe. Who did Jesus behead? I am non-religious and I find your comparison foolishly naive.

Christians believe Jesus is "god", right? So this is what Jesus did:

In Zechariah:

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped.

And, of course, there's all the ones in Deuteronomy where Jesus commands his faithful to kill every man, woman, and child in various cities. Except for the virgins, though! The virgins are theirs for the raping. If they like them, they bring them home, shave their heads, and keep them as slaves to be raped whenever they want.

Don't try tit-for-tat between the Christian bible and the Koran. Where do you think the Koran got its inspiration?

Bottom line: Extremists for Christianity has been a blight on humanity until fairly recently. In the grand scheme of things, it makes sense that Islam (which is a younger religion) still has extremists as it hasn't had the same amount of time to mature.

A zealot is as a zealot does. No matter what god the zealot worships.

a reply to: Cuervo

yeah but the extremists that you seem to agree exist are here now causing problems... what should be done about that?

a reply to: tavi45

All 3 religions have some violent and unacceptable by modern society, instructions, very barbaric things. However, Christians follow Christ's example. There is also interpretation, and even gnosis, metaphor. Society is run by secular laws, not religious ones, they are not fascist theocracies. There is a separation between spiritual beliefs and law, politics, etc. Not so with Islam. None of these things are legal in todays world.

Islam, amongst these religions, continues to operate in a dangerous fashion to its own members, and citizens, and to non believers.

Islam operates under Abrogation.

wikiislam.net...

So earlier passages, peaceful, were replaced by later instructions. They were not peaceful.

originally posted by: uwascallywabbit
a reply to: Cuervo

yeah but the extremists that you seem to agree exist are here now causing problems... what should be done about that?

That's a different topic than the thread's but, in short, I don't know.

To end the Christian extremism that lasted for centuries, it took generations to die and for science and society to eventually prevail. When the majority of Christian societies moved into the 1st-world categories, they realized they cannot continue to follow their religion to the letter. This is why many Christians in 3rd-world countries still do all the horrible things their supposed to do according to Christianity like burning and stoning people.

The Muslim extremists are, for the most part, from cultures where they can still get away with it. The guy who beheaded his co-worker seemed to be a career criminal and not all that stable. If he were a Christian, he may have done the same thing because he was insane.

The best thing that could happen would be a large spiritual movement within the Muslim communities which aggressively condemned all of these actions and positioned it in a way to leave no doubt that those who are killing people will not go to "heaven" or get their virgins in the afterlife. It needs to be condemned by Islam so publicly and loudly that these terrorists will no longer be able to fly under the flag of Islam. It also needs the maturation and societal growth of all the regions involved.

They were there, once. Look up photos of Iran and the surrounding areas from the 50's and 60's. You would swear you were looking at America. Things happened since then that made them take HUGE steps back into fundamentalism.

a reply to: Cuervo

So I don't get it, are you excusing them? Because Christians hundreds of years ago we're barbaric then what, tit for tat? We need to target this problem as it exists where it exists. It's not acceptable for any reason and will not be tolerated. Obfuscate the situation all you want but most free thinking people will see this incarnation of Islam as the clear and present danger. You want to hold those Christians accountable then build a time machine.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Cuervo

Christian bible right here:

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God

I can dig up several more like this. Christians are cursed by their god for not killing unbelievers, as well. Christianity just had a few more centuries under its belt to reign in the psychopath extremism.

Don't compare scripture of Islam and Christianity and say one is violent and the other peaceful.

Except they are not put to death for being unbelievers, they are put to death for trying to turn believers away from God. It's a pretty big distinction.

Much like US law you can't kill someone just because they are armed .. only in self defense when they are threatening you. What you are doing is like saying US law let's you just kill people, it doesn't.

Just in that case. Like I said, I have plenty more.

Deuteronomy 17:12New International Version (NIV)

12 Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the Lord your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel.

2 Chronicles:

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their ancestors, with all their heart and soul. 13 All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.

In Deuteronomy, it even says to slay an entire city if even one person there worships another god.

It doesn't matter if they are trying to convert you or not.

Deut 17 talks about killing people who show contempt for the judges.

2 Chronicles 15:13 is not a command to kill non believers as is found in the Quran. If interested you can read the context, which was God delivered a great victory to them. God made promised to be with them as long as they were with Him, and they recommitted the nation to God. They were never told to seek out unbelievers, and it's not a command that God gave that carried out past this event.

Again, it has nothing to do with the OP, at all. You have not provided a single verse that is similar from the Bible.

originally posted by: Cuervo

Christians believe Jesus is "god", right? So this is what Jesus did:

In Zechariah:

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped.

God is telling what will happen, what is your point? It is the Jews that will happen to. You really seem to be stretching to find things to justify your hatred.

Comparing the violence of Islam vs Christianity and Judaism is not parallel.

Christian and Jewish power structures no full well the scripture is BS, it is only for exploitation and consolidating votes. Their violence will not be in the name of "God", instead the name of "freedom" . Does that mean they are not violent because they only have to follow their religion when they ask for forgiveness and 10% of your wage?

Radical Islam is not excusable, but neither is 2 face murder. Wasn't it like 600k-1.3 million dead Iraqi and Afghani? That does not get pinned on Christians or Jews does it? Because they are 2 faced. Their personal lives may follow some faith but the crimes they commit through their offices can be excused by no faith.

In the 60-90's Islam WAS peaceful in America. It got a lot of kids out of gangs and helped achieve a lot of rights for non whites. If you DIDN'T want to go to Vietnam you claimed Muslim. If you were Christian you were practically obligated.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Cuervo

Christian bible right here:

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God

I can dig up several more like this. Christians are cursed by their god for not killing unbelievers, as well. Christianity just had a few more centuries under its belt to reign in the psychopath extremism.

Don't compare scripture of Islam and Christianity and say one is violent and the other peaceful.

Except they are not put to death for being unbelievers, they are put to death for trying to turn believers away from God. It's a pretty big distinction.

Much like US law you can't kill someone just because they are armed .. only in self defense when they are threatening you. What you are doing is like saying US law let's you just kill people, it doesn't.

Just in that case. Like I said, I have plenty more.

Deuteronomy 17:12New International Version (NIV)

12 Anyone who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the Lord your God is to be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel.

2 Chronicles:

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their ancestors, with all their heart and soul. 13 All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.

In Deuteronomy, it even says to slay an entire city if even one person there worships another god.

It doesn't matter if they are trying to convert you or not.

Deut 17 talks about killing people who show contempt for the judges.

2 Chronicles 15:13 is not a command to kill non believers as is found in the Quran. If interested you can read the context, which was God delivered a great victory to them. God made promised to be with them as long as they were with Him, and they recommitted the nation to God. They were never told to seek out unbelievers, and it's not a command that God gave that carried out past this event.

Again, it has nothing to do with the OP, at all. You have not provided a single verse that is similar from the Bible.

Deuteronomy 13

that trouble makers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you.

Pretty cut and dry. If somebody is professing their faith, you are to investigate, search them out, and destroy them.

I have found every example you have asked for.

originally posted by: Dystopium
a reply to: Cuervo

So I don't get it, are you excusing them? Because Christians hundreds of years ago we're barbaric then what, tit for tat? We need to target this problem as it exists where it exists. It's not acceptable for any reason and will not be tolerated. Obfuscate the situation all you want but most free thinking people will see this incarnation of Islam as the clear and present danger. You want to hold those Christians accountable then build a time machine.

It's been a long time since a person has misconstrued my words so poorly. I never said anything like what you are accusing me of. I'm not entirely convinced you read my whole post. It's not that long. Go back and read it again.

I was answering a question. The question was "yeah but the extremists that you seem to agree exist are here now causing problems... what should be done about that?". Now read my answer again. It answers that question.

To answer that question, it's important to know about the other that just recently stopped acting like ISIS. This is why I speak about Christianity so passionately in this context. It is critical for understanding solutions. To say that the core scripture of the religion itself is to blame is silly since the core scripture for Christianity is every bit as bad which is why it's important to focus on the "extremist" component.

I never said anything about excusing them nor for seeking retribution towards Christians. I simply answered the question. Christianity in the western 1st-world is model I wish for Islam to aspire to.

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: Cuervo
Of course the Old Testament is a valid source, but the Old Law has been done away with, i.e. stoning, offering animal sacrifices, etc.

So it's a valid source for wisdom, but anything that makes the bible look bad has been done away with...how wonderfully convenient...

And for those of you who are not understanding the legitimacy of the comparison with Christianity...

Look, yes, in the past, many horrible things have been done in the name of Christianity. More damage than has been caused in the name of Islam, really. But you say, oh that's irrelevant, that was century's ago. No, it is not irrelevant. Certain individual Muslims do bad acts, maybe even in the name of Islam, and you say, 'See! Islam is bad! It's a religion of violence.' You're drawing conclusions about the religion as a whole on the basis of individual actions. Well, yes, Christianity not all that long ago was doing even worse things, systematically, in the name of Christianity. By your line of reasoning, that shows that Christianity is a religion of violence. In fact, it does even more so, because it was the actual church doing all of this, not just individuals. But, if individuals committing acts of violence proves that the religion these acts are done in the name of is a violent religion, then Christianity is certainly a violent religion. And if it does not, then you have no ground for saying Islam is a violent religion.

I just don't understand this particular group mindset - then yet again I don't think it's quite possible too.
Why is it so difficult for us to live in peace on this planet - the only place we can truly call home.

~Sovereign

originally posted by: tavi45
Um the Christian bible and Jewish Torah both contain many instances of violence against sinners and nonbelievers. So why is it only the Quran that takes the heat?

For those of you lacking in education Islam is really not much different from Christianity or Judaism. Christianity is Judaism updated for Roman culture and Islam is Christianity updated for Arab culture. If you think Islam is fundamentally incorrect or immoral so is Judaism and Christianity. They all worship the same God.

The CHRISTIAN BIBLE does NOT tell us to do violence to sinners but to outcast from our community's they who live in constant sin until they repent, the OLD testament does but that is not the christian bible, it is the basis upon which the new testament is based but we as christian's must accept the later passages of the new testament as taking priority, it does not remove the law but it fulfills it as christ said and of course "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord", "Judge not lest ye be Judged", "Let he that is without Sin caste the first stone".
There is simply no comparison except if you confuse the old Testament with the New testament, most of Torah is in self contradiction, "You shall not kill" direct from God on the tablet's of the ten commandment's and in contradiction stoning of adulterer's but Jesus said "Do unto others as you would have Done unto you", "Love thy neighbour as thyself" and when asked who is my neighbour he told the parable of the good Samaritan, "Judge not or God shall judge you", "Blessed are the merciful for they shall recieve mercy".
Our faith is full of Karma but we do not referre to it as Karma and today that is seen as a hindu system of belief as Hindu and Buddhist karma relate to re-incarnation were in christianity it relates more to God's judgement on your soul.
Islam is a misguided faith and I would strongly suggest you read up on who and what Muhammad really was, his young life as a salesman and his marriage to the elderly woman in order to take her business, his being outcast and his first followers being bandit's, his terrorizing and murder of innocent merchant's and there caravan's, his hatred of woman and condoning of rape and slavery, his marriage in his fifty's to a six year old child who took her doll's with her and was totally innocent but whose hair fell out after the wedding night so she was regarded as diseased until her hair grew back when the psychological trauma had passed enough at the age of nine.
I would suggest you look up Prince bandar and his blond child harem on the net or perhaps the saudi family's opinion of child marriage and when it should be consumated then ask right minded people why they are singling Islam out.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Do you think the stories would be different if the story of Christ had been written while he was alive? The gospels were written after the deaths of his followers. The written accounts of word of mouth stories rather than accounts of first hand experience.

Tell us of the young life of Jesus. What was he doing at 13? 17? 22? 28?

Why is such a large portion of such an important life missing from the story?

Judge not indeed.................

a reply to: TheJourney

Actually historically incorrect, even misguided action's of christians such as the crusades were originally in response to christian's being murdered by celjic turk's who were said to cut there bellies and nail there intestines to a tree then whip them around it until the dropped dead.
Many of Islams oldest city's were christian before they forced the population to convert on pain of beheading.
Far more people have been made slave under islam than all the european american slaves combined, indeed many of the slavers who supplied the anti-christian european slave trade were actually Islamic middle men.
Slavery is still practiced widely throughout islam and unlike Christ who said "I come to set you free" Muhammad held a christian as a personal slave.
Indeed far more and worse crimes have been perpetrated in the name of Islam but they recorded it as doing Allah's work and there were no survivors to complain, so wrong and misguided comparison.

Just from southern europe alone Islamic raiders took over 2 million slaves from about 1400 to 1700, indeed they actually wiped out entire town's and villages that once lined the shores of southern europe, as late as 1911 turkish raiders were murdering entire greek villages on the mediteranean islands and there is one where hundreds of skull's of the town who were beheaded in the church were they had sought shelter are today stacked in a mound as a monument to these Christian martyr's (And they who were beheaded for the sake of christ came with him in the cloud's and they who had beheaded them saw them and knew great terror).

Should we go on about the Rape, murder and enslavement in the name of Islam that has lasted for over 1300 years and try to compare note's with crimes truly commited in the name of christianity (of which you will find very few indeed though the first crusade could be regaded either way) and not politic's or economic's.