50 Things About Millennials That Make Corporate America [snip] Its Pants

a reply to: Aazadan

I'm that one story apparently. But if this high school drop out can do it, then I have faith that others smarter than me can as well.

But the 1 out of 100 will always be the norm...regardless of which generation a person grows up in.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TDawgRex

There's no warehouse jobs paying 27$ an hour what world are you living in?

Forklift operator

Id say thats pretty damn close.....

You were saying?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TDawgRex

There's no warehouse jobs paying 27$ an hour what world are you living in?

Forklift operator

Id say thats pretty damn close.....

You were saying?

ULINE!? We shipped a lot of their stuff.

Pitt-Ohio, is like the regional industrial equivalent of UPS or FedEx. Not boxes, but huge chunks of metal and machinery.

Full timers got plenty of perks. Us part-timers...not so much, but they did make up for it in pay.

a reply to: onequestion

What do they think they are going to do when their parent's die, the house is taken for taxes and there isn't anyone there to feed, house, pet them and tell them how very special they are?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: Aazadan

Back in the day.......minimum wage jobs were mainly held by kids. No one who was a real adult or had a family, worked a minimum wage job. Instead of trying to raise the minimum wage we should ALL be trying to create worthwhile jobs for adults.

This argument doesn't really help your position, because we've been pointing out the purchasing power of minimum wage. Minimum wage back then had more purchasing power than 50% of the jobs in the country today. Wages have severely declined, even if we had "worthwhile" jobs they would still just be equaling that kid wage.

I'm all for bringing jobs back to the country, that at least gives those in my generation a chance at a career. Wages are another issue though which are related. Labor has gotten extremely cheap because of globalization.

As the OP has stated...data plz for that assertion of minimum wage having more purchasing power than 50% of today's jobs. I don't recall living like a Middle American person on my Kentucky Fried Chicken job back in 1979. There was NO WAY even back then I could have lived on my own, with transportation, College, food ect on my wages. Hell, I barely had enough money to party with. Minimum wage has ALWAYS been that... Minimum.

Report

Personally I would blame going off the gold standard for most of the decline in earning power of the minimum wage and wages in general. Take a look if you doubt me. That was the start of the Great Decline in America.

On the flip side, you can easily contend that the rise in other workers earnings of those above minimum wage is another reason why minimum wage jobs suck....they just haven't been able to keep up with society wage-wise as a whole. That many more adults and family's nowadays have to rely on the main breadwinner keeping a minimum wage job is a National Disgrace to me and I bet most of the posters here. Minimum wage jobs should be for those just entering the workforce, not a Career option.

Don't blame me, I was in Agreement with H.Ross Perot..... Say what you will about the man, he was spot on about NAFTA. It is a giant sucking sound.....only we are still too deaf to hear it. Now the damage has been done, by BOTH parties I might add.

That all being said, when people whine about not having enough opportunities ect, I would humbly suggest YOU make YOUR OWN opportunities, rather than wait and hope on someone else providing one for you. Nobody is going to care more about yourself than YOU. I opened my business at the peak of the "Great Recession" when no one was lending money ect.... I found ways to get it done, anyone else with enough drive can do likewise. Right now I am even financing my loyal employees into starting their own ventures. That's the American Dream. It's easy to assign blame when you never look into a mirror......

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: pavil

Umm I rarely attack people I tend to discuss topics review my thread history of 500+ threads and you'll the see percentages heavily in my favor.

But let's keep talking about one question.

Ok, what exactly is that question? I'm pretty dense myself.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TDawgRex

Millions of positions?

Most grads won't make that after ten years let alone driving a forklift.

Then those Grads chose VERY poorly their major. See, THEIR CHOICE. My Nephews and Nieces are ALL making very good salaries in their chosen fields in the field of their Major.

You can't help people that pick bad majors........that's all on them and the people they listened to.

originally posted by: Aazadan

That aside, calling $27/hour good is ridiculous and it's a product of just how bad wage stagnation has gotten. $27/hour is the purchasing power MINIMUM WAGE had in 1955 and 1967 before things started stagnating.

Again, Data plz. That's the problem.....even $27 isn't good enough for an entry job.

Again personally, if you have a set number of how much money your time is worth (ie what you want to make), then all you have to do is figure out how to get that amount. I know it sounds pretty "The Secret" kind of crap, but no one else is going to put more worth on your time than you do. It's a great exercise to do.

You'd be surprised what you will achieve when you start doing things like that. It's an exercise I do constantly and its allowed me to waste time here debating you, no offense, because I have priced my time when at work to a point where I make a very comfortable life for myself and my family. I constantly look at what I do and determine if someone else can do it for me for a lesser value than what I place on my time. I make money while on vacation and sleeping, not many people get to say that. It helps to have the skill sets to be able to charge what you think you are worth. Again it is willing to do things that others can't or won't for the price you have determined you are worth.

a reply to: onequestion

If you've noticed most of my responses have been fairly reasonable and non of the have been personal attacks.

Your opinion, again ... of course.

a reply to: onequestion

The old ways of doing things are what brought us to where we are so maybe a little attitude change is in order.

:-)

I'm guessing 40 is going to be a rough birthday for you

You know what onequestion? I get you

Learn how to argue - and get yourself a shiny new sense of humor and you just might get something going

But, I want to go on record as having said: You're still going to have to work

Sorry

Lots of grumpy, cynical old people on this forum, aren't there? Since it has turned into a right wing cesspool, I am not surprised.

This Gen-X guy thinks the millennials are the hope of this nation. In them I see more intelligence, education, entrepreneurship, and kindness than I see in the older generations. I hope I live long enough to see how they transform this country.

a reply to: Grumble

Yeah that's it, we're all grumpy because we make money and actually enjoy our lives.

Priceless

Can't wait to hear me called heartless and greedy too

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: Grumble

Yeah that's it, we're all grumpy because we make money and actually enjoy our lives.

Priceless

Can't wait to hear me called heartless and greedy too

What does any of that have to do with criticizing a whole generation because they are not just like you?

originally posted by: pavil
As the OP has stated...data plz for that assertion of minimum wage having more purchasing power than 50% of today's jobs. I don't recall living like a Middle American person on my Kentucky Fried Chicken job back in 1979. There was NO WAY even back then I could have lived on my own, with transportation, College, food ect on my wages. Hell, I barely had enough money to party with. Minimum wage has ALWAYS been that... Minimum.

Perhaps the fact that you used your money to party was some of the problem? That's the argument for people making a low wage today, especially students... they should expect to put 100% into school, food, and rent. All of the data I want to post goes well beyond the 7500 characters I have for a post so I'll just sum it up with a few points phrased in terms of hours of work at minimum wage to afford something:

I wanted to do something better for food but the prices I have saved are either by decade or a shopping list, and I didn't want to post the list. So I went by a single food item using the Big Mac since it is relatively well documented price wise due to the Big Mac index (though that index doesn't go back quite far enough in this case).

Minimum wage in 1967: $1.40
UPenn 1967 tuition $1,770. 1,264 hours.
Average house 14,250. 10,179 hours.
Gas 33 cents/gallon. 14 minutes 8 seconds.
Big Mac 45 cents. 19 minutes 17 seconds

Minimum wage in 1979: $2.90
UPenn 1979 tuition $5,250. 1,810 hours.
Average house $58,100. 20,034 hours.
Gas 86 cents/gallon. 17 minutes 47 seconds
Big Mac (value meal) $1. 20 minutes 41 seconds.

Minimum wage in 2013: $7.25
UPenn 2013 tuition $40,954. 5,649 hours
Average house $311,400. 42,952 hours.
Gas $3.49/gallon. 28 minutes 53 seconds
Big Mac $4.20. 34 minutes 46 seconds.

That's already a minimum wage that's worth half of what it was in 1979 and we haven't gotten into the real comparisons like low end housing or actual grocery lists. The massive success of the top 5% or so brings up the average by a very large amount.

That all being said, when people whine about not having enough opportunities ect, I would humbly suggest YOU make YOUR OWN opportunities, rather than wait and hope on someone else providing one for you.

That is my plan when I finish college (and I have had a lot of schooling in order to try and make my goal a reality... 4 degrees, working on my 5th and final one now) however 75% of new businesses fail, in my field it's closer to 95%. Being realistic about things means recognizing that starting my own company most likely won't bring me success but it would be fantastic if it does.

Again, Data plz. That's the problem.....even $27 isn't good enough for an entry job.

No, I think it's great in this economic climate. However the fact that that's a good wage is proof of the stagnation we see all over the place and evidence that we need to reverse the trend. This is a problem that has taken roughly 35 years to create, it's going to take time to reverse as well. My generation just happens to be the ones that are bearing the brunt of it, and will also deal with the slow recovery. It won't be until we are in our 50's that things will be back to where they should be and that's if they change right this moment. More likely we will never work at the rates our labor should be worth.

originally posted by: pavil
Personally I would blame going off the gold standard for most of the decline in earning power of the minimum wage and wages in general. Take a look if you doubt me. That was the start of the Great Decline in America.

On the flip side, you can easily contend that the rise in other workers earnings of those above minimum wage is another reason why minimum wage jobs suck....they just haven't been able to keep up with society wage-wise as a whole. That many more adults and family's nowadays have to rely on the main breadwinner keeping a minimum wage job is a National Disgrace to me and I bet most of the posters here. Minimum wage jobs should be for those just entering the workforce, not a Career option.

I wanted to get to this too but there wasn't room in the other post.

There's a few reasons and really no singular cause for blame. The gold standard is likely part of it but many nations around the world aren't on a gold standard and they have better compensation at the low end. The two big causes in my mind are women going to work and the reform of CPI in 1982.

We'll start with women going to work, this essentially doubled the supply of labor on the market. As time has gone on women have been able to get degrees and take skilled labor positions. This is great for every woman who wants to work but it also means labor is twice as available and therefore at most half as valuable. This essentially drops wages in half and creates a situation where women then must work in order to provide the household with enough money to function. If you look at other nations around the world where workers have more purchasing power at lower wages you'll also see that they give more support to concepts like raising a child. This takes some of those women back out of the workforce to care for their kids which then raises wages for everyone else and allows households to function with fewer income earners.

Then we'll look at CPI. When it was created CPI tracked the change in the cost of goods over time. Originally it used the same goods, for instance it would track the price of a Big Mac year over year and record it to determine inflation. Starting in 1982 the system was reformed to track changes in how much people are spending year over year. The example I type out here often is lets take a difference in meals between two years. In year 1 a person is buying 3 meals a day at $2 each. In year two prices have risen but the buyers food budget hasn't, that person is now buying 2 meals a day at $3 each. Pre 1982 this would be recorded as 50% inflation because the cost of the meal had risen by 50%. Since the reform however this is recorded as no change because the person is still spending $6. Another way to look at it is if people have the money to buy high end deli turkey for sandwiches one year, but in the next year they buy the Walmart budget turkey because of price increases CPI considers this the same.

The reason this is important is because changes in CPI from year to year determine our official inflation rate which many things are indexed too such as loans, bonds, and even employee raises as minimum wage which serves as a basis for all other wages is roughly indexed to the official inflation rate. A low interest rate despite changes in the cost of goods keeps these things from growing. If you look at the minimum wage link you posted, you'll see that they even reference their numbers in terms of CPI changes year over year. If you're familiar with the LIBOR scandal what we're doing with CPI is a government backed version of that.

a reply to: Aazadan

Preach brother.

Your ability to defend this position is far far more then I could ever do.

Baby Boomer: "Back in my day, we had to walk 1 mile in 2 feet of snow to the barn, kill the chicken, drink it's blood, de-feather it, then walk all the way back to the house and cook it."

Generation X: "Back in my day, I had to hunt deer, skin it, prepare it, then cook it for my family."

Millennial, or: 'Y' generation: "Back in my day, in the basement(or attic), I'd cry if my mommy didn't serve me my Ramen Noodles hot."

a reply to: Aazadan

What you're talking about reminds me of the buggy whip industry.

With the advent of the automobile, the buggy (hence the whip) no longer needed to be made. People were out of a job.

But then comes that wonderful concept of adaptation. People adjust to the current economic scenario, or they don't.

We talk about the separation of generations, yet older folks like myself have adapted. I remember writing my masters thesis on a Brother Word Processor, and I thought I was futuristic!
Now? I can "network" and utilize the same tools and social media options that the younger kids can.

It's a competitive world. And while you may get a trophy for just showing up in school, life doesn't work the same way.

Neither does business.

a reply to: Aazadan
Well, let's look at it from your perspective. The world is getting more populated. That populace is becoming more educated, men and women. Yet, despite all the wars, famine and pandemics, it still keeps getting more populated.

The labor pool is there for whatever first world country to exploit.

I'm not saying that's right by any means...but it's true as well.

Maybe we, the global populace need is one of the three listed above to even things out on a global scale.

The Georgia Guide-stones come to mind.

a reply to: beezzer

The "Buggy-Whip" industry became the GoodYear corporation.

They adapted.