We don't need jobs, stop believing this lie

a reply to: onequestion
Who produces the tools I currently own and use to help fix my neighbours and friends as favours in our current economic model?
Do the toolmakers just give them away to their neighbours in exchange for raw materials/parts/etc?

We may not need jobs, in a barter system, small community, self sustaining approach to life, but we definitely, as human beings, need productive work to feed the soul with necessary accomplishment, etc…
regards,
tetra50

a reply to: grainofsand

I get you're trying to validate your lifestyle but splitting hairs is not the goal of the OP. You could sit there all day and make inquiries about how you'd get this or that for what or when but in the end you're doing it for the sake of not invalidating all the choices you've ever made. You're not actually expecting an answer or even thinking about a solution you're just smugly asking questions that are only applicable in the current state of affairs that you know don't have a solid answer at the moment because the current system is all you can see in front of you.

a reply to: onequestion

But to help your neighbor fix his house or to help your neighbor fix his aqua phonic garden or to help your neighbor fix his car or to fix his robot is not a job it's just being a decent human being.

This happened and happens every minute. I dont know where you live but here in my region, this is pretty common.
I once had three neighbors helping me mowing my lawn all of the sudden (2400m² does some work!). They even finished it after I had an accident with my bushcutter and rushed away with no explanation. Next day I invited them and some other neighbors to a grill party. Everybody brought something (dishes, tables, sunscreens) We had a blast until Sunday morning. They get all the apples that we can´t eat every year before they rot, we give them away. This is how things come back and I think it´s not out of the normal.

Lol, 60+ hours of work per week and you seem to have plenty of time for ATS.

Sure.

a reply to: thesaneone

Some people have days called "vacation".
Some people are self employed and might have some time over while they just wait for smth. to compile/render/finish.

a reply to: corvuscorrax
Oh please, you're avoiding the question and failing in your deflections of it.
What is your plan then? The actual day to day workings of making your 'Utopia' happen?

I am attempting to validate nothing. It is you claiming that there is no need for jobs, so explain exactly how that works?
Who manufactures the tools? Who organises water, gas, and electrical supplies? How do we trade with each other, cabbages and fresh eggs? Is there any formal 'trade' in your magical world?

You alone made the assertions in the OP and I am questioning how this will happen at the nuts and bolts level, not a romantic thought of warm apple pie.
If you cannot explain even a framework of how it will work, from raw material supply, to production of tools, and finally to people like me who use tools to fix peoples houses then I shall just assume it is dreamland.
You are of course free to explain a bit more detail and I am more than open towards supporting any new realistic plan?

I think maybe there are those undesirable but essential jobs that nobody wants to do (i.e. labour, wiping arses), therefore the growing unemployed class needs to be punished in some way (i.e. shamed, forced to live in poverty), in order to keep the society moving

a reply to: onequestion

Your perspective on "work" is what makes it selfish. A "job" is a means to an end. But to help your neighbor fix his house or to help your neighbor fix his aqua phonic garden or to help your neighbor fix his car or to fix his robot is not a job it's just being a decent human being.

Who is gong to cut the lumber to fix the house, who is gonna transport the wood? Other friends?

Where did he get the seeds for his aquaphonic garden? Did a friend collect them in the wild or did he do that himself?

Who manufactured the car you help to fix? A friend?

Who is pumpin oil and refining it into gasoline and transporting it so this car can drive when it is fixed? All friends off yours?

What are you going to eat at the end of the day?

What are you going to do for them?

Apparently you want the world to change but without changing our lifestyle. Not going to happen.

In a civilisation you have to work in order to be part of it and reap its benefits.

And it is not possible for every human being to live of the land simply because we are too many.

There is no way out for everybody. Well there is.......


Again, you remind me of this,

youtu.be...

No offense.

a reply to: AntiDude

And it is not possible for every human being to live of the land simply because we are too many.

That´s wrong.
Everything else, including the southpark video (I hate southpark) that really sums this thread up:

a reply to: verschickter

That´s wrong.

Thank you for that. I thought I was right but you changed my mind.

Yes let us all go hunt and eat berries, all 7 Billion of us and let's see how long it lasts.

Everything else, including the southpark video (I hate southpark) that really sums this thread up:

Do you pity the fools?

a reply to: AntiDude
Calm down man. Living from the land also means farming. Farming animals and crops. Exactly what we do now.
Name is program, eh?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: OptimusCrime


Seeing things as whole with the dissolving of boundaries and extending our understanding of self to that of the whole.

Wouldn't that require abandoning individuality?

a reply to: verschickter

Since it is what we are already doing, it should've been clear that the phrase "living off the land" was meant in the sense of hunting and gathering. It was also clear from the context of the previous posts.

How do you envision it will work? How are billions of people going to farm cattle and crops for themselves on what land?

Remember this was about not having jobs.

Calm down man.

I am completely calm.

I wasn't talking about my hate for stuff.

a reply to: EternalSolace

No. That means you see others as an extension of yourself. That doesn't you can't be an individual it means you might actually give a crap about them and their importance becomes yours as well.

a reply to: AntiDude

What we're doing now isn't working.

So how do you envision what we're doing now will work?

a reply to: onequestion

I don't.

I just said a few posts back that there simply is no way out for everybody.

a reply to: spy66

I actually think roads should be covered under individual states, not the Federal government. The problem we have is communities and counties have to apply to these places and doing so brings extra money into the communities to boost their local economies. Some of this causes a neglect of maintaining existing roads because the roads have to be a mess to get this funding. This originates because of the system we have in our society and includes the local counties and communities.

How do we fix this? I haven't a clue. Communities have learned to hire managers who specialize in getting this funding which complicates the problem country wide.

a reply to: onequestion

If others are seen as an extension of yourself, and another's importance is imposed as yours, it would follow that individuality is removed. Especially in your previous sentence about goals of one person, become the goals of everyone else. That leaves no room for individual goals as the only goals that would remain is procreation and survival.

a reply to: onequestion

Also, part of it is in your own hands. If you lose the car you could maybe work one day less a week. Are you prepared to give it up?

Just an example.

I am not saying that society isn't setup to trap and enslave you but a big part of it has been your own choice.