originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: OptimusCrime
If people stop seeing things as separate from themselves including the concepts of life and death then work will cease to exist.
Work will become life and humanity, the earth and people will want to help you achieve your goals because your goals are theirs.
Seeing things as whole with the dissolving of boundaries and extending our understanding of self to that of the whole.
Dude...I understand where you are coming from, but in truth...it isn't possible. At least not with a government in place. Property taxes, and taxes
in general. We are required to pay just to live and breathe. Well...at least if we want shelter, use of the roads, etc. And on top of that, as an
example...if you grow your own tobacco and smoke it...in PA you owe the state $13.50 per carton. Just for growing a plant.
Once you tear down the government, both federal and state...lets talk. I'm all in favor of the barter system and no government involvement in our
lives. But until you do these things...you will become a criminal.
I'm going a step further if you don't mind WAA
Yes I see OP's assertion, unrealistic as it is. I would KILL to have a society based on lack of oppression and perfect harmony and perfect trust but
there is a massive MASSIVE flaw in this whole thing
Throughout history in almost all organisms there is selfishness and greed. Basic life forms evolve to become the stronger and survive. Animals fight
for the right to breed. Humans are just plain selfish and greedy. I admit it...I am greedy...I try hard not to be but I really am and no offense to OP
but OP is greedy too and it only takes a fraction of OP's posting history to prove it. But still, if OP's world 'were' possible I would live in it
and contribute all day every day and take only what I needed...but it's not...and here is why from the human perspective
People can pretend all day that media and government and politics of the macro and micro scale are at fault and their answer is 50% right and 50%
misunderstanding of an extremely important illusion that for some reason people really never notice, myself included until recent.
These systems, the government, ISIS, alphabet agencies, dictators whoever are MADE OF PEOPLE. The only way you can have a group of people is to start
with a person. I have yet to meet a person who doesn't have at least a modicum of greed and selfishness in them and it is rampant and super clear and
blatant to any observer. I can pick on anyone I want and prove my point
OP has this grand scheme of harmony and wants to rid the world of greed, all on the back of two posts about how Baby Boomers should leave or die so he
and his generation can take over (also called them stupid) and about how it's criminal that college students have massive debt and are victims even
though there are tens and tens of pages of warnings and cautions before taking said loan AND you have to sign over and over that you understand...yet
OP still thinks harmony is possible despite all this greed than even OP has in them ((OP I am super sorry I don't know your gender))
But hold up...let's not just be rude...let's talk about me Kyo. Let's pick on me too!
Look at my history of posts ((which is pretty pathetic)) and if you don't want to do so, let me tell you all about my greed and selfishness. I talk
all day about wanting Socialism and the perfect order yet I just have to have my iPhone and my iPad and now I really want a Mac...I don't need a Mac
specifically to function at my job...heck my job GIVES me a computer. Yeah I have online school work to do...but can I not do that with a $300
Toshiba? you betcha! But no I go on and on and on about how I want to bring about social change...yet to this date I've done a bit of protesting but
nothing major to make a change
Want more? How about the fact that I HAD to buy a $30,000 Honda? I am pretty sure a beater could get me to work...I am pretty sure a used car could do
the same. I've left lights on yet complained about how the environment needs to be protected
Ok...I think I have beaten myself enough...OP I mean it...we are ALL selfish and greedy...some to greater extent but we are
As I once told a really cool poster here, what if tomorrow we tear down the government and within an instant, your utopia is in place? How long? How
long until greed kicks in and someone says "well I will shingle your house, but you owe me big." How long until someone begins hoarding supplies
just due to fear or greediness?
You have to think about this carefully...We WERE in your situation...hunter-gatherers in small societies worked together and fed themselves with
minimal concern for advancement. But what of the two very serious issues we face with that lifestyle?
1. Without advancement, we can't fight things that seek to harm us. If H50N1 ((or whatever number)) comes tomorrow and we don't advance...what then?
We die? The bubonic plague could have wiped us out and it sure tried to. We advanced...hygiene and vaccines and quarantine were advancements we made.
The problem with your dream scenario is, that without some level of competition, advancement doesn't occur at a rapid enough rate and unfortunately
greed makes it so that in order to advance society, society likewise needs to have reward to feel the need to advance because we are greedy and need
2. The other problem is what do we do right now? Do we all destroy our laptops? Turn off the juice to our houses? Put in wells and pitch the faucet?
Yeah we may not need to do all that but again, what percentage of the population is going to advocate for this dream world? 1%? 5%? heck even 10-15%
would be amazing but they are just going to quit their jobs and the rest of the population will say "thank goodness! New jobs just opened!" We like
our toys. I know it's sad, but we do. I am not saying I am perfect. In fact I am so far from perfect I couldn't see perfect with the Hubble AND its
lens correction...I like my Honda...I like my laptop and in good balance there isn't anything wrong with that so long as it isn't obsession that
harms myself or others.
The result is this...I DO have a wholesale, iron clad plan to make society perfect. I am 100% guaranteeing it will work
"Get rid of people"
That's how you pull it off...because as long as biology and the mind exist, people are going to compete and we are going to be wanting the bigger and
better for a myriad of reasons
I don't like it OP and I actually agree despite how this response looks. I would kill to be able to have Utopia as you describe it. And we actually
CAN have Utopia even with our pretty toys...but it just isn't going to happen because the human condition is much stronger than dreams sometimes
I am not saying it is a 100% guarantee that your dream will fail...anything IS possible...I am just saying I am about 99.9% it isn't going to work