Ferguson Police Chief Admits Officer Was Not Aware Of Robbery

originally posted by: Fylgje
It sounds like Brown may have thought the cop was on to him and did attack the officer. Brown was a serious criminal and displays very violent behavior. This should give more credence to the cops claims..

Serious criminal? This is based on a video purportedly showing him swiping a few packs of swisher sweets and pushing the shop clerk (possibly owner)?

Are shoplifters "serial criminals?" Please. If somebody gets in a bar fight and punches somebody else, is that person a "serious criminal?" That's much more of an attack. Would you then assume that person was likely to assault a uniformed police officer and attempt to grab his gun? The clerk wasn't injured, he was intimidated. Is it wrong? Hell yes, but does that make this kid a "serious criminal" displaying "very violent behavior?"

Seems that you've done exactly what the Ferguson PD wants you to do. You've taken the video and judged this kid as a violent criminal who was a menace to society and thereby, less deserving of protection from being shot to death by a cop.

a reply to: theantediluvian
Sad NBC Nightly News just said, the officer thought he might be a suspect in the robbery.

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
I am getting annoyed that the media keeps using the term "robbery." When I think of robbery I think of someone going in, either armed or unarmed, and robbing a place of its money. That does not appear to be what occurred. What happened was that there were some cigars stolen. It was "theft," not "robbery."

Didn't you know? It's like how rich people are "social drinkers" but poor people are "drunks". Rich people are "eccentric" and poor people are "crazy". White troublemakers are often called "good ole' boys" while black troublemakers are called "thugs". Now, we can add that white people "shoplift" while black people can only "rob".

originally posted by: darkwarrior
a reply to: theantediluvian

Grabbing for an officers gun puts mike at the top tier in the use of force model. I dont know why this is a big deal.

Because, it's not popular, and doesn't fit the meme.

People seem to have some physical blinder on that totally disallows them from seeing that the officer was attacked, and that is assault of an officer of the law. In just about any jurisdiction, even slapping a cop car is considered assault, but actually hitting the cop, let alone going for his weapon, is a felony.

Again, when it comes down to a life or death struggle over a weapon, the winner literally calls the shots.

Police are held to a higher standard than a civillian, ONLY because they have training in hand to hand combat, and other tactics.

However, one can use the video, along with other descriptions of "Big Mike's" size and physical charactistics, and understand that under the proclaimed circumstances, the hit to the face, whether before or after the struggle for the weapon, all accounts for the state of mind of the officer.

Did he fear for his life? Was his fear reasonable? Did he have a reasonable chance, under the circumstances which we do not have details of, to use anything other than lethal force?

All of these things must be considered, but without that information, it is impossible to come to any conclusion.

One can, however, make a reasonable deduction that after a hit or blow to the face, and a struggle over his weapon that he had every reason to have fear, and even reasonable fear for his life.

He also was facing two men, one who had just attacked him, and the other, at that point in time, he did not know if he was armed, or dangerous.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Yup.

"IF" is the biggest word in the dictionary.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

What you think of robbery doesn't matter.

The legal definition in any state, of robbery, is what matters.

The robbery is in no way any "justification".

The robbery, however, helps in defining character, which is exactly what people are doing to the cop.

So, what's good for the cop is not good for Michael?

originally posted by: LDragonFire
Ferguson market, West Florissant Avenue, St. Louis, MO

one possible location

They wasn't walking anywhere near QT

According to his oh so believeable (cough) witness, they were almost home, so, not waking towards anything, except the apartment complex.

This was his statement, many, many, times, on video.

a reply to: Libertygal

Because, it's not popular, and doesn't fit the meme.

People seem to have some physical blinder on that totally disallows them from seeing that the officer was attacked, and that is assault of an officer of the law. In just about any jurisdiction, even slapping a cop car is considered assault, but actually hitting the cop, let alone going for his weapon, is a felony.

You know that the story being told by the cop is the truth because...? It seems to me that while you're talking about other people wearing blinders, you have already made up your mind based on a few seconds of video, with no audio, showing a shove and the alleged theft of some swisher sweets.

Oh and "physical characteristics." So your opinion might be different if he had been a few inches shorter and a few pounds lighter?

I'm going to wait on some physical evidence and more details before I stridently argue guilt or innocence, but what I do know is that the only absolutely verifiable fact we have regarding the shooting is that the deceased person was unarmed.

I also believe that the Ferguson PD has engaged in deliberate attempts at deception in the last several hours and if their handling of protesters AND REPORTERS is any indication of their conduct as a unit, I'd say it's not leaving me with a favorable impression of their integrity and professionalism.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I guess you missed the "we don't know part".

I do not understand why an explanation of facts, as few as we have, is considered as taking any side.

I do believe a law enforcement official over a street thug and his cohort, however. Especialy when said cohort only seemed to start telling the truth once he was confronted with the fact that they had them on video.

You do realize that Dorian has likely agreed to turn state's evidence, right?

And my opinion doesn't matter. All that matters is the state of mind of that cop when it came down to what was likely, to him, a life and death struggle for his weapon after an assault.

originally posted by: Libertygal

originally posted by: LDragonFire
Ferguson market, West Florissant Avenue, St. Louis, MO

one possible location

They wasn't walking anywhere near QT

According to his oh so believeable (cough) witness, they were almost home, so, not waking towards anything, except the apartment complex.

This was his statement, many, many, times, on video.

And strange is the fact that the "friend" (Dorian Johnson) is listed on the police report dated Aug 9th (page 4)

Why no arrest ?

originally posted by: Libertygal
a reply to: theantediluvian

I guess you missed the "we don't know part".

Possibly because it was a few words in the middle of a couple hundred words that could, in my opinion, be fairly construed as a hypothetical situation, presented by you, in which the cop would have been justified in his actions. All of this following these opening lines:

Because, it's not popular, and doesn't fit the meme.

People seem to have some physical blinder on that totally disallows them from seeing that the officer was attacked, and that is assault of an officer of the law.

That seems pretty matter of fact to me and it also seems that much like the police department, you're going to great lengths attempting to inject doubt while simultaneously professing a neutral position.

a reply to: xuenchen
Perhaps not arrested because he returned the cigars to the counter that Mike had handed him. Without Mike's presence, that skinny Dorian is not such a tough guy.

originally posted by: Mikeultra
a reply to: xuenchen
Perhaps not arrested because he returned the cigars to the counter that Mike had handed him. Without Mike's presence, that skinny Dorian is not such a tough guy.

Interesting.

Is that confirmed ?

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Libertygal

originally posted by: LDragonFire
Ferguson market, West Florissant Avenue, St. Louis, MO

one possible location

They wasn't walking anywhere near QT

According to his oh so believeable (cough) witness, they were almost home, so, not waking towards anything, except the apartment complex.

This was his statement, many, many, times, on video.

And strange is the fact that the "friend" (Dorian Johnson) is listed on the police report dated Aug 9th (page 4)

Why no arrest ?

Because, as the police stated, they determined Dorian was not the one who committed the theft.

He did, however, sing like a canary. Posted in another thread, was a statement from Dorians' attorney, that clearly stated he was unaware of the actions and statements of Dorian.

This implies a strong possibility that Dorian has spoken to police without his attorney present.

When one turns state's evidence in a crime, you agree to testify for the state, as a witness to the crime. State's evidence affords imminunity from prosecution, essentially, you are telling them the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Dorian may, or may not, hold the key, or partial key testimony on the side of the cop.

That is why he was likely not arrested.

However, had Dorian refused to speak or offer testimony of the facts, he could have been charged, as even the police called him, as an accomplice, and charged with whatever they charge the cop with. (This was also discussed in another thread)

At this point, if the community thought, mistakenly, that the QT was the locale of the robbery, and the ones responsible for calling police, hence the death of Michael, then Dorian may well need police protection.

The QT was targetted, and attacked, because the COMMUNITY believed they were the ones who called police. This is evidenced in many videos, calling the QT "ground zero", the "place where it all started", etc. The side of the QT was spray painted after it was burned down with, "snitches get stitches". The QT has been the staging ground for all rallies, etc, every day since. This shows evidence of what the COMMUNITY beleives took place.

Following that same rule of thought, if said same COMMUNITY feels Dorian is a stool pigeon, a cop out a turncoat, his life may well be in danger.

There certainly is no lack of evidence of him on video, talking, a LOT.

Following that and the statement released by his attorney, it is a reasonable, and probable, and wholly likely assumption, that he has turned states evidence.

Once he was confronted with the video, he was caught dead to rights being there, during the commission of a crime. If, and yes, I said IF, his attorney told him not to talk to police, Dorian may have used better judgement and done so in their absence.

In cases such as this, the police are usually willing to let an accomplice that, in video evidence, did little in the actual robbery, have immunity for evidence, and testimony at trial. It is better to have him as a witness, than to charge him with a petty theft, especially since it is claimed he returned the cigars. Dorian may qctually be a "good" kid, turned sour by the company he kept.

It is wholly reasonable, then, to assume, yes, I said assume, from all facts available, that he is now states evidence, and now, actually a witness for the defence, hence, the cop.

He could be considered a hostile witness, as well. That consideration allows for a curiosity when it comes to trial, as, during trial, a hostile witness is allowed to be badgered on the stand.

But, that's down the road, and using assumptions of facts not in hand.

We can, however, within a reasonable mind, assume he IS states evidence. Hence, concern for his safety should be high. I hope they don't botch that. This same COMMUNITY that attacked the QT improperly may well attack the defense's star witness.

To clarify COMMUNITY in this post is meant to define those people who rioted, and/or acted in a manner to attack, loot, and commit arson and vandalism of the QT, and in no way is meant to refer to the reasonable, thinking people of Ferguson, but to dilineate them from the thugs who acted before they knew even what store was really robbed.

They almost killed the people at the QT.

Hope this helps answer your question.

a reply to: Libertygal

Can someone find the snitches image? I'd like to see it.

a reply to: loam
Here he is.
michigancitizen.com...

a reply to: xuenchen
He's 5'5" and 120 pounds! Mike purposely handed him a box of cigars to make him equally guilty. Without Mike he is just a light weight, and probably incapable of harming anyone. Unless armed with a weapon. I'd knock those dreads right off his noggin.

a reply to: Libertygal

There were at least two other witnesses, neither of whom were involved in the Great Swisher Sweet Heist of 2014.

It looked like the two of them were arm wrestling, she said.

Neither woman, who gave their statements to St. Louis County police, say they saw Brown enter the vehicle.

Instead, a shot went off, then the teen broke free, and the officer got out of the vehicle in pursuit, the women said.

“I saw the police chase him … down the street and shoot him down,” Crenshaw said. Brown ran about 20 feet.

“Michael jerks his body, as if he’s been hit,” Mitchell said.

Then he faced the officer and put his hands in the air, but the officer kept firing, both women said. He sank to the pavement.

source

They're giving a version of events that is completely at odds with what the Ferguson PD is claiming the cop is saying.

Would you agree that if these women are telling the truth, then the cop is a murderer?

a reply to: loam

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Libertygal

There were at least two other witnesses, neither of whom were involved in the Great Swisher Sweet Heist of 2014.

It looked like the two of them were arm wrestling, she said.

Neither woman, who gave their statements to St. Louis County police, say they saw Brown enter the vehicle.

Instead, a shot went off, then the teen broke free, and the officer got out of the vehicle in pursuit, the women said.

“I saw the police chase him … down the street and shoot him down,” Crenshaw said. Brown ran about 20 feet.

“Michael jerks his body, as if he’s been hit,” Mitchell said.

Then he faced the officer and put his hands in the air, but the officer kept firing, both women said. He sank to the pavement.

source

They're giving a version of events that is completely at odds with what the Ferguson PD is claiming the cop is saying.

Would you agree that if these women are telling the truth, then the cop is a murderer?

These woman did nothing wrong. They have nothing to hide. I believe these woman.