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Ukrainian Su-25 warplane detected heading toward Malaysian Boeing

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posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: rustyclutch

I applaud your patience pal, I'm still with you waiting for at least 1 link to a source proving otherwise...

All we've had so far is poor conjecture and repeated bile & vitriol...

I'm surprised the Mods haven't told certain members to stay on the damn topic and stop with the venom...


Either show your argument as Rusty has, or do one until your side musters up some sort of proof!!!
Derailing the thread is a low move, although not surprising considering!!!

Complete derailment, & it was purposeful, Mods, please keep up!!!
Most posts as an OP would end up in the LOL forum for not having a single link or proof, show the OP some respect and keep the thread trim of the miscreants & reprobates!!

1) Planes Crashes... No one knows why, even the how is debatable!!!
2) All sides deny involvement... As expected!!!
3) Pro-Russians are blamed within a half hour... Again, expected!!!
4) They deny having the capability... Still to be proven either way!!!
5) Ukraine denies having Military jets in the sky... See No.8, this was a lie!!!
6) West call for more sanctions... Expected? Certainly!!!
7) Pro-Russians allegedly desecrate the site, social media in an uproar over "rebel holding teddy like a trophy" in a photo... See No.9, now disproven and a disgusting lie at that!!!
8) Russia bring evidence to the table that Ukraine did have a jet in the skies... See the OP!!!
9) Russia debunks the "trophy" photo with footage of the "rebel" placing the teddy back on the ground and gesturing the Holy Trinity out of respect for those lost... Watch RT on the hour for about 5-10 minutes and you'll see the footage, it's upsetting!!!
10) Bodies refrigerated to stop decomposition... Apparently this was sinister as well!!!
11) Evidence shared on ATS... Here we are!!!
12) Pro-West supporters derail the thread... Do your job Mods, please & thanks!!!


These are the only facts available so far!!!



Peace Rusty!!!




posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:03 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: voyger2

Well I can answer those right now...I have no idea?




originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: voyger2

Yes they are , but until they release those tapes I have nothing to say about them.



As you very well said, those tapes are essential to elaborate accusations. You have no idea about them and you can't answer right now.

So very important before take sides is to wait for the facts/proofs and then demand for justice. Until then, please, help raise the questions and to find the truth. Even if you don't like your don't want it to believe.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: whyamIhere
I have seen nobody blame the Russian People.

However, your leader and ours have lost all credibility.

Nobody has clean hands here.

I am willing to wait for unbiased investigation.

Are you ?


Implying that the russians are providing false information is blaming them. The american news has been blaming them since the plane went down. The people in this thread are using the same claims without a shred of proof to say the evidence russia provides is false. Those are accusations. Don't know what you have been reading. You got any facts you want to add or are you just jumping on the disinfo bandwagon?


The only fact I would like to add...Is you have no facts.

I have no facts. Let's have the investigation.

That's the part you seem to want to ignore.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Good points.

As an aside, can you access RT?

Google giving error messages here.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Much appreciated sir. Just trying to shed some light on a dark subject. I hate to see anybody scapegoated. The country being blamed for everything is the only country providing any proof. I've waited all day for a rebuttal from the white house and satellite imagery of our own. I would like to believe that for once my government isn't the total dirtbags I think they are.....but they just keep letting me down. Blaming people without evidence is a new low. Especially in America. Habeus Corpus. How can a person be a juror when they refuse to be objective and look at all the facts? All I ever asked for was facts from people. I really am objective...lol the facts have just pushed my opinion in favor of one party so far because the other refuses to offer any.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: whyamIhere

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: whyamIhere
I have seen nobody blame the Russian People.

However, your leader and ours have lost all credibility.

Nobody has clean hands here.

I am willing to wait for unbiased investigation.

Are you ?


Implying that the russians are providing false information is blaming them. The american news has been blaming them since the plane went down. The people in this thread are using the same claims without a shred of proof to say the evidence russia provides is false. Those are accusations. Don't know what you have been reading. You got any facts you want to add or are you just jumping on the disinfo bandwagon?


The only fact I would like to add...Is you have no facts.

I have no facts. Let's have the investigation.

That's the part you seem to want to ignore.


Okay....I can take the Russian side of the story with a grain of salt. Taking the American side would be bad for my blood pressure.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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a reply to: rustyclutch

The ''new low'' from US / UK governments has been ramped up considerably recently and in full view of the media and the public.

It seems like they aren't giving a damn about seeming even remotely credible any more.

Obviously there are international conflicts going on in various places around the world but the ''new low'' seems almost a paradigm shift.

All this points to something greater in the bigger picture that has been obscured. The pace has got faster and it only points to something major.

The world is waking up to government manipulation and lies. Now to see the bigger picture and know the truth about them, all their machinations and who is behind their manipulations and maneuvers.
edit on 21-7-2014 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Thanks my friend...

Funnily enough no I cannot access RT on my mobile Safari or my RT app...
The good old Western Front helping me decide what's good for me again!!!


Peace Absolute!!!



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: rustyclutch

I find myself agreeing with everything you just said...
I'd be just as defensive if America was being blamed for this...

Firstly, speculating I thought Jihadist bomb on board...
Evidence now points to Ukraine...
With this Jet and the BUK system being removed I'm swinging in that direction, until/unless further proof is available that is!!!

Peace Rusty!!!



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Yes I read a blog or an article somewhere where they talked about the "quickening". I think we have hit the point where things are about to start happening in rapid succession. There will definitely be some blowback about this. If the United States can't pin this on Russia and the rebels.....their credibility is ruined. Not like people don't question our credibility now. But on a case like this....with the whole world watching....laughing stock of the WORLD.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:38 PM
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Strange. I am having the same issues accessing rt from my mobile as well.

Sure it's coincidences right?



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
From RT's Twitter account:

Dear readers: Our site is currently experiencing technical issues, we are working to address the problem and apologize for the inconvenience


Peace Charlie!

ETA: and, is back online...

Our site is back online, thank you for your patience

edit on 21-7-2014 by zilebeliveunknown because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: zilebeliveunknown

Thanks for the update pal, my app is up and running again...

My conspiracy mind says The KGB just got one over on the CIA hackers


My rational side says it was just technical difficulty!!!


Peace Zile!!!



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 08:12 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Flatcoat

Except everyone says Su-25, which can't fly that high with weapons on board.
Which SU 25? Seems there's quite a few iterations of it.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: Bilk22

I agree that they probably don't fly that high, but air to air missiles got a lil range on it....assuming it was within 5 km that puts it right in the high probability kill zone for the types of missiles they use. Doesnt' really say the plane shot it down though. Thats one of the things we been arguing about. Only reason it's relevant is because there was that spanish air traffic guy tweeting his little soul out about military craft following that plane. Ukraine then denied having any aircraft in the area I believe, although I'd have to find the article.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 08:50 PM
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Ukraine has converted its SU-25 fleet to SU-25 M1 with major upgrades related to reinforcement of structural components, the installment of advanced electronic navigational equipment, a new cockpit with multiple function monitors and increased service ceiling up to 10,000m.

www.redstar.gr...


this is SU-25 M1


edit on 21-7-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 11:37 PM
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Maybe the SU was the intended target by a Russian SAM which got confused.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 11:46 PM
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So? Neither side would admit to having a military plane in the area. Doesn't prove a thing. It's amazing how some of you jump from step A to step Z without bothering to figure out anything in between.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 12:20 AM
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Please forgive me as I am new here, but which news agencies are ok to believe and which are labeled as just bs propaganda? I ask simply as a new person trying to disseminate information but I've noticed if someone posts what appears to be rational facts from CNN it is almost instantly discarded, but if it's posted from RT it's accepted as plausible.

Thanks in advance!



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 02:44 AM
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a reply to: Montsta

Best advice not to trust most official media resourses. Take everything with a grain of salt, and analyse, with some abstract and critical thinking, who can lie, and more importantly - why would they, who would have best motives for occurence, and so and so. This situation is incredibly complex and riddled by information war.

That's why the most credible sources, i believe, now are the actual investigators. Another good thing to see is Russian press-conference of Ministry of Defense. They speak on high level, confidently presented their case respectfully, which i still don't see from the US and UA. Whether these arguments will be debunked we will see, but it should be also official debunking. Not the cry baby behaviour of Ukraine and its master.

Public is in the dark mostly, all what we can do is to try and dig ourselves.



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