Ground Zero Cross: Court presses atheist group to explain why artifact is 'offensive'

originally posted by: DumpMaster
a reply to: Metallicus

I find it "slightly" offensive. It would be completely offensive if it had the traditional corpse hanging off it, but, I think it is slightly offensive because it exclude all non-christians who were murdered on that day.

If it is just a cross, it is a bit offensive. If it is a cross and there are other things there to respect non-christians as well, then I don't see it as offensive, as long as it is not the only thing.

Since when does keeping it there EXCLUDE anyone? Thats an illogical thought.......

I swear if people spent as much time being understanding and living the virtues they claim to have, as they do being "offended" the world would be a much better place.......

Honestly if this offends you, you need to grow a pair, America has become a land of sissies who cant step foot outside their houses without being upset, or hurt, or offended or crying because of some issue....

Seriously.......toughen up........

I dont see how the people who are constantly offended by a cross, or some other religious symbol even function in society.....

I ve been in countries that didnt share my particular religious point of view, guess what........I WASNT offended.........why?

because i have better things to do then to be offended by menial things..and I RESPECT them and their religious point of views......even if it doesnt apply to me......

get that? R E S P E C T.......

a reply to: Metallicus

Ground Zero cross was MASS MK ULTRA programming. No mystery.

originally posted by: PGTWEED
If Atheists don't believe in any Deities? Why be offended by any religious symbol connected with that Deity?

Vegetarians don't believe in eating meat should they not be offended if someone slaughtered an animal in front of them.


Just because I don't believe in your deities doesn't mean I don't find someone holding a sign up saying "god hates fags" or "atheists will burn" as offensive.

I don't believe in your deity, but I can still take offense at the things your religion push on people.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: PGTWEED
If Atheists don't believe in any Deities? Why be offended by any religious symbol connected with that Deity?

Vegetarians don't believe in eating meat should they not be offended if someone slaughtered an animal in front of them.


Just because I don't believe in your deities doesn't mean I don't find someone holding a sign up saying "god hates fags" or "atheists will burn" as offensive.

I don't believe in your deity, but I can still take offense at the things your religion push on people.

Grim , I agree with you on many other threads .........but I have to say here......

How can you draw a comparison between this cross and
A.Slaughtering an animal bloody and gore, in front of someone

or

B. A god hats fags sign......

Both of thse things would be extremes , and I really dont think its fair or accurate to compare this cross of metal being there, to either one of those things....

youre being intellectually dishonest..........

WAIT!

So a cross is comparable to the slaughter of an animal ?

WHAT ?

As if.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I was replying in context to someone saying that because I don't believe in deities that I shouldn't have an opinion on things that are in connection to those deities.

I had to make it harsh because I don't think they would get it otherwise.

I am not saying the cross is the same as a crude sign just that it is BS to say I can't or shouldn't have an opinion.

As I already said before I don't really have a problem with that cross being there however I do find that the way they choose to display it is distasteful and overbearing. I think they could have done it in a much better way, but the way they did it seems to be just begging for controversy. Anyway that is my opinion on this particular issue.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I was replying in context to someone saying that because I don't believe in deities that I shouldn't have an opinion on things that are in connection to those deities.

Basically atheists don't believe in God so no one should.

Who cares I ask.

People are of course free to act like nazi's and burn books because that is exactly what they are acting like.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
I think a religious symbol at the site of a religious atrocity is a bit over the top...I would be for a sort of coexist type plaque with all the religious symbols (and the atom for atheists) though...
But the cross is a Christian symbol, and the attack was by religious fanatics...If religion didn't exist (say it went out of fashion in 2000 globally and everyone just decided to be decent people and humanitarians), we would still have the towers...end of the day, no suicide flyers = no terrorist attacks.

You are classifying things that most would see as vastly different things, as being the same.

Suicide type terrorism was not a Muslim invention, nor is it specifically religious (consider the Kamikaze attack on Pearl Harbor or the Suicide Bombing campaign of the Tamil Tigers, you could hardly describe these as 'religious').

The murder of innocents and non-combatants is abhorrent to those of Muslim faith. The terrorists who committed the 911 attacks were disobeying the Koran. Their intention and goal was the murder of innocents. To call them Muslim is an insult to Muslims.

For the majority of the world's religious people, of all religions, their faith is based upon the attainment of a higher spiritual path, where peace, forbearance, mercy, kindness and the greater good are pivotal.

To classify these good people of faith (any faith) as complicit in such evil, is an offensive vilification of the wrong party/s.

Please desist.

originally posted by: neo96
WAIT!

So a cross is comparable to the slaughter of an animal ?

WHAT ?

As if.

Erm, doesn't the "cross" represent the sacrificial slaughter of the "Lamb of God"?

a reply to: neo96

Soooo you can compare atheist to nazis and call them book burners without that being an unjust comparison.
But his comparison of someone being offended by the cross to someone seeing an animal slaughtered(seeing something they don't want to see) is off base.
Good to know

a reply to: Grimpachi

Ahh ok i follow now, I was a bit confused there cause i did earlier read your reply......

Thank you for clarifying

a reply to: Sremmos80

Soooo you can compare atheist to nazis and call them book burners without that being an unjust comparison.

Actually said they were acting like them.

What nazis didn't burn books ?

The bible ain't a book?

The small minority of Atheists (I believe) who cause all this drama need to chill out.

It does not take a rocket scientist to see that anyone can walk by, be in a room with, or look at any religious symbol without suffering any harm.

It's a total waste of the courts time and taxpayers money.

a reply to: neo96

Basically atheists don't believe in God so no one should.

Don't worry Neo it went over your head. You can assume whatever you wish though. You usually do I am used to it.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

It is cool. I am glad you had me clarify. I could have written it different, but that is what I came up with at the time.

originally posted by: TiedDestructor

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Char-Lee

I bet there was even a melted mass that looked like a Golden Calf!

Yep! And, I fail to see the difference in the two, the Cross and the Golden Calf. I wonder why Christians are missing the whole idolatry reference of the issue.

Because symbology and idolatry aren't the same thing.

I personally believe it becomes the same as soon as you kneel in front of it.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Don't worry Neo it went over your head. You can assume whatever you wish though. You usually do I am used to it.

Arightie then.

I will assume that if an athiest looks at a cross they are scared the 'religion' might rub off.

Or they might be turned to stone.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: beezzer

Is it part of your faith to plaster crosses all over the place? How is placing a territorial symbol of Christianity at the 911 Memorial in any way relevant to what happened that day?

How is a common piece of construction engineering, like a steel crossbar found in the ruins, an important artifact to be elevated in memory of the fallen victims of that day? Because it's coincidentally shaped like the torture device that supposed killed your savior, as well as 1000s of others victims, that should mean something in the big 911 picture?

Yes, in both cases, it is the symbol of the death of the innocent.

Many people found significance in this particular shape, at the location of a great tragedy. It is a reminder of that tragedy and a memorial to those who lost their lives, not a statement about religion.

Do the 'offended' atheists have a thought for the families who lost loved ones or the memorial to the fallen, or are they just pushing a self promoting political agenda?

What do you think is the real offense here?

a reply to: neo96

So they are acted just like the religious extremes that have been burning books for centuries, not like nazis.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Honestly if this offends you, you need to grow a pair, America has become a land of sissies who cant step foot outside their houses without being upset, or hurt, or offended or crying because of some issue....

I was thinking it was more along the lines of shining a light on one person and leaving others in the dark? Most of the people who worked in the trade centers were from other countries i read, what religions did they all represent.

Think of it like this, there was a group of people killed some were blue, some pink some green. Now your child died there and she was green.

Along comes a memorial to all that died there and they build it with a huge pink flower to represent all the people that died there...how would the you and the others feel.

I would fix the problem by adding the other colors.