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Ground Zero Cross: Court presses atheist group to explain why artifact is 'offensive'

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posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: kruphix

Well then it would not have been pulled from the rubble and actively used as a shrine by rescue crews which cemented its role and place in the history of the 9/11 terror attacks.




posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 11:48 AM
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I think I'm already done here, many members seem to be mind numbingly stupid, incapable of thought or incapable of reading . Sorry just an observation but the total lack of comprehension has been enough to dissuade me.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: windword

How is it a 'misuse'.

ALL our rights come from our creator.

As laid out in the declaration of independence.



When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation




We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,


www.archives.gov...

The only thing that offends me are those who try to kill GOD only to replace it with their version of 'new and improved'.

That first amendment can't get anymore clear.



Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


www.archives.gov...

IF person chooses to believe that is their RIGHT as laid out as in the CREATOR.

As in the LAWS OF NATURE, and NATURES GOD ENTITLED THEM.

If a person doesn't they need to get over it.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: neo96




How is it a 'misuse'.


One can easily infer that Americans worship money, since "GOD" is printed on their currency. Jesus said that one cannot worship GOD and money, so placing the motto, "In God We Trust", on money could be misconstrued and easily be interpreted that American money is what Americans trust and worship, and can be seen as hypocritical and blasphemous.


edit on 22-6-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Metallicus

So what if a cross beam was found in the rubble? I bet there were literally 100s of cross beams in the rubble. So what?

What's the significance of a cross at the sight of 911? Jesus didn't die there. Are Christians trying to compare the deaths of the 911 victims to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, or is the supposed message that Jesus, using the symbol of his cross, some how sanctified the unwitting sacrifice of the victims?

I don't get it. What place has a cross at the 911 Memorial sight?




You must not have read the paragraph that pointed out it was a shrine, or a place of comfort for all first responders. Not just christian first responders. You and the atheists stated it as a christian symbol. Some people cry foul every time they get a fart cross-ways.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

I find it "slightly" offensive. It would be completely offensive if it had the traditional corpse hanging off it, but, I think it is slightly offensive because it exclude all non-christians who were murdered on that day.

If it is just a cross, it is a bit offensive. If it is a cross and there are other things there to respect non-christians as well, then I don't see it as offensive, as long as it is not the only thing.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: windword

And why are you assuming that this post is making the assumption that Christianity was attacked? Please get over yourself.

The people who used these beams to draw on spiritually are the ones this poster is talking about. They're the ones who demonstrated the strength of Christian hope and faith, and these two beams became a not insignificant shrine. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but it was very important to the people who were there and working through the rubble; it sustained those people, and it deserves a place for that reason, not because it became a Christian symbol.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: windword




One can easily infer that Americans worship money, since "GOD" is printed on their currency


Anyone that lacks a modicum of critical thinking skills might.

Others would think this:

American's worship government who pulls worthless pieces of paper from the air, and turns it in to 'wine'.

Government creates money, and passes it out to the so called needy.

Really is amazing that most people don't see the current truth of the state of the union.

All that animoisty towards the church, and god ?

They REPLACED IT WITH SOMETHING worse.

As the good book says that 'we should beware of false prophets'.

Fits the US government to the letter.

edit on 22-6-2014 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: DumpMaster

Did the non-Christian first responders have their own such place? Did it have a similar piece of rubble they used? Was it intentionally excluded?

If not, then there is no attempt to exclude by putting this here as there was nothing to exclude.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: windword




So what if a cross beam was found in the rubble? I bet there were literally 100s of cross beams in the rubble. So what?


I bet there was even a melted mass that looked like a Golden Calf!



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: neo96




ME:
One can easily infer that Americans worship money, since "GOD" is printed on their currency



Anyone that lacks a modicum of critical thinking skills might.


It's not stretch to believe that Americans worship money, in my opinion.


Others would think this:

American's worship government who pulls worthless pieces of paper from the air, and turns it in to 'wine'.

Government creates money, and passes it out to the so called needy.

Really is amazing that most people don't see the current truth of the state of the union.

All that animoisty towards the church, and god ?

They REPLACED IT WITH SOMETHING worse.

As the good book says that 'we should beware of false prophets'.

Fits the US government to the letter.


HAHA! I love that analogy!


Now days, we confess our sins to lawyers and judges, and taxes, fines and licenses replace tithes, indulgences, and initiations.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: Char-Lee




I bet there was even a melted mass that looked like a Golden Calf!


Yep! And, I fail to see the difference in the two, the Cross and the Golden Calf. I wonder why Christians are missing the whole idolatry reference of the issue.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Char-Lee




I bet there was even a melted mass that looked like a Golden Calf!


Yep! And, I fail to see the difference in the two, the Cross and the Golden Calf. I wonder why Christians are missing the whole idolatry reference of the issue.




Because symbology and idolatry aren't the same thing.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

You know I don't really find the cross offensive and I would say it probably does have its place at the memorial. To review this is how it was.


They could have taken it and done something tasteful preserving the moment but instead they turned it into an alter.



That is pretty over the top slap in the face Christian monument. It is not so much the cross to me but how they choose to flaunt it high and mighty above everyone that I find a bit offensive.

It seems to me the way they set it up at the memorial it was meant to bait a religious confrontation.
edit on 22-6-2014 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: TiedDestructor

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Char-Lee




I bet there was even a melted mass that looked like a Golden Calf!


Yep! And, I fail to see the difference in the two, the Cross and the Golden Calf. I wonder why Christians are missing the whole idolatry reference of the issue.




Because symbology and idolatry aren't the same thing.


That depends on how fundamentally you look at it.


“You shall have no other gods before me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.


Just sayin



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: windword

No.

Symbolic doesn't mean religious. The symbology holds true with many New Yorkers despite religious affiliation or lack thereof.

That's where I was going.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: FlyInTheOintment




Atheism, if it is to be believed, doesn't give a hoot about religion


And there lay the problem. It seems you have been gravely misinformed on what atheism actually is.

Atheism is a lack of belief in deities> Period, nothing follows.

There is nothing there that says atheists can't have opinions on the world around them or how religions try to influence everything. In fact, an atheist can believe, hold an opinion, be offended by anything you can except have an belief in deities.

Get it?

We are not like Christians, Buddhists, muslims, or Scientologists. There is no handbook/bible for us to follow. To be clear just because we don't believe in your gods doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on them or how your faith try's to influence the world.

If you are a Christian does that mean you have no opinion or can't have an opinion on the muslim faith. Try to wrap your head around that.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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If Atheists don't believe in any Deities? Why be offended by any religious symbol connected with that Deity?



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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I remember when Apollo 8 orbited the Moon. The Astronauts read from the Book of Genesis and Atheists were upset by it.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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dbl
edit on 6/22/2014 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



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