Obama cites Australia’s gun confiscation program as example for US

originally posted by: ArchAngel_X
Off the top of my head, handguns of certain sizes and clip capacities...

Already restricted.

...modified rifles and shotguns (sawed off or converted rates of fire)...

Already restricted.

...and fully-automatic weapons.

Already restricted.


Seeing a pattern here?

a reply to: beezzer

I noticed that this agenda is been getting heated too, it seems that Mr. mighty pen in the White house is opening the door for an assault on the constitution.

But rest assure, he will find out that is not as easy as it seems.

Bush tried to undermine the constitution with the patriot act, Obama may tried to use his pen.

a reply to: beezzer

What irritates me is foreign nationals who have no comprehension of why we want our firearms.

Dear foreign nationals,

Not only is it written into the documents that were the beginning of our country that we could posses firearms, but we also need to be able to defend ourselves from our own government. You see, for all of the nationalism spewed from everything from Americans (not myself, I'm ashamed of what we have let this country become) to the South African members of this site, the fact of the matter is that our military is the strongest in the world and our government in the running for the most insane.

How many of your countries have started thousands of international incidents, wars and skirmishes in the past 80 years for nothing but personal interests? A few are close but still nowhere near us. We have reason to be afraid, defensive and prepared. Name calling and pushing your country's policies does nothing but show ignorance.

If someone is determined enough, what's from stopping them obtaining a large blade and going on a slashing spree? I see mentions of those fairly frequently... Our media is controlled by our government. Of course these incidents are going to be publicized beyond anything else because it's part of an agenda that's been going on for years here. Please, visit this country and tell us after that we shouldn't have access to the firearms our founding fathers intended us to have.

With that, flame away, particularly the Aussies.

Sincerely,

Most Americans with firearms

originally posted by: dashen
Americans don't need guns. Americans don't need rights. Liberties. Freedoms.
Americans need to be afraid. OfCrazy people with guns. Trust the nice police officer kicking your head in. Try not to bleed on his new Kevlar jack boots.
after we get that pesky 2nd amendment out of the way we can start working on the first

Once the 2nd amendment is "out of the way" all the constitution is next. That's the plan all along. Getting rid of the guns has not one thing to do with safety, the "right thing to do", "for the children", or any of the other emotion flamed euphemisms. It's going after the queen bee knowing all the drones and worker bees will fall apart and dissolve into chaos.

a reply to: Magnivea

Yes that is the agenda, just like global warming agenda as an example, every time is a storm is not longer "nature ways" is now Global warming, the propaganda is in full gear, so every gun incident has to be exploited to the maximum in order to pave the road for the most stupid thing that the political rats in Washington may attempt to do, mess around with the constitution.

If you see the pattern with the last two president, congress is becoming obsolete and so the supreme court, the president is running the show from the executive branch as the sole power in the nation, but lo and behold, let him sign a ban on guns in the country with his executive pen, that may be the last drop on the American peoples patience.

It will be something to see.

originally posted by: Shadow22
Because if a bunch of rogue gang members

Why is it the pro-gun lobby seem to depend on concocted and imaginative scenarios to justify an argument against gun laws?

Because if my government goes rogue...
Because if my house gets invaded by drug addicts...
Because when the aliens or zombies come...

Yes, on the statistically-insignificant chance that one of these scenarios should actually happen to you, we should continue to place our index fingers into our ears and babble loudly to drown out the reality that rampant gun violence in the United States is not going away.

Inventing fictitious situations to justify a viewpoint makes it appear weak and unsubstantiated, in my opinion. Just say you want a gun because it makes you feel safer. That's an argument even I can get behind.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
I don't understand what you're trying to say? I was posting about weapons which are restricted or prohibited in my country.

As a Canadian, I have no use for a full-auto rifle or sawed-off shotgun with armor-piercing rounds. I don't fear my government, my neighbours, or police. And on the marginal chance someone breaks into my house while I'm inside, I have a few tools (crowbar, axe, machete) literally a few feet away from me in my tool room I could conceivably use for self-defense if I feel so justified.

originally posted by: ArchAngel_X

originally posted by: Shadow22
Because if a bunch of rogue gang members

Why is it the pro-gun lobby seem to depend on concocted and imaginative scenarios to justify an argument against gun laws?

Because if my government goes rogue...
Because if my house gets invaded by drug addicts...
Because when the aliens or zombies come...

Yes, on the statistically-insignificant chance that one of these scenarios should actually happen to you, we should continue to place our index fingers into our ears and babble loudly to drown out the reality that rampant gun violence in the United States is not going away.

Inventing fictitious situations to justify a viewpoint makes it appear weak and unsubstantiated, in my opinion. Just say you want a gun because it makes you feel safer. That's an argument even I can get behind.

It's because the police are just minutes away when every second counts in what you do or do not that is the choice between life and death. Yes, in my neighborhood (5 or 6 times a year). Yes, in yours too. Yes, in rural too. To live in intentional, heated ignorance is evidence of shill-work. Your not fooling anyone.

a reply to: ArchAngel_X

I can promise this. A nation wide gun confiscation program like Australia pulled will lead to a civil war in the United States. The 2nd Amendment is a right, in can not be undone.

Do not try to say the military will over power the US citizens. All members of the US military are bound to protect and defend the US Constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

Assault the Bill of Rights is an assault to the Constitution.

originally posted by: ArchAngel_X
I don't understand what you're trying to say? I was posting about weapons which are restricted or prohibited in my country.

Those are also restricted here in the United States.

And on the marginal chance someone breaks into my house while I'm inside, I have a few tools (crowbar, axe, machete) literally a few feet away from me in my tool room I could conceivably use for self-defense if I feel so justified.

And if it is a criminal who disregard your firearms laws and opted to equip themselves with a gun?

a reply to: ArchAngel_X

I don't have my guns for comfort. Occasional hunting but otherwise just collecting. I chose to collect weapons from all eras in my 20s when I acquired WW2 weaponry from my deceased grandfather. In one shot (aside from a couple of ROMAKs and a Yugo SKS), I had 15 rifles from almost all parties involved in WW2. I got a FFL, had the money and means to go further, so I did.

I enjoy having a license of the kind I do, I can buy, sell and own fully automatic weapons. I'm not going to take my P90s or Springfield M60 hunting but it's just like beanie babies for some people.

a reply to: ArchAngel_X

If there are armor piercing shotgun round available somewhere, please point me in that direction. Thanks.

originally posted by: tkwasny
Yes, in my neighborhood (5 or 6 times a year). Yes, in yours too.

Sorry but not in my neighborhood. Not even close. I live in a city of 45,000 with an average murder rate of approximately one every two years, and from my own memory the majority of them are stabbings. The last shooting death I can even remember was perhaps 15 years ago and involved a local drug dealer owing lots of money to a biker gang.

And if I lived in a neighborhood as you claim to, I'd seriously consider moving. I'm genuinely sorry you have to live in such an area.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
And if it is a criminal who disregard your firearms laws and opted to equip themselves with a gun?

Then I guess I'm getting robbed. And possibly shot, if I resist or piss them off.

Oh well.

originally posted by: ArchAngel_X
Then I guess I'm getting robbed. And possibly shot, if I resist or piss them off.

I respect your choice. Mine would be to defend my family and property.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

This is a major concern as well. I visited some family overseas in a non gun friendly country and they had a stockpile to rival a small militia. Every bit of it illegally obtained. Even their neighbors had things. Some of them would even be hard for me to obtain here. It's REALLY not hard to get firearms in a non friendly to firearms country.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: bellagirl



No, we happen to have a constitution that protect us from idiots specially those behind agendas in government, including the frog president in the White house, sadly Australia will never get to know what it is to be a free country, after all if history doesn't fail me they started as nothing but a penal colony.

....rahahahah yes and extremely proud of it. answer this...who is the free one here...me or you.

i can go to the movies, the shops (mall), school etc etc etc and not be worried about some idiot going on a shooting rampage. i live my life free of FEAR. and that mate is the best freedom you can have

a reply to: ArchAngel_X

having lived in Canada most of my life i understand perfectly the fear people have in having their guns taken away. it is HARD to get/have/transport a gun in Canada. and the worst part is WITH ALL THE INSANE, RESTRICTIVE, AND COMPLETELY NONEFFECTIVE GUN CONTROL LAWS IN PLACE, SHOOTINGS STILL HAPPEN, IN MALLS, ON THE STREETS ETC. IN FACT YOU CAN HEAR THE SOUND OF GUNFIRE ALMOST NIGHTLY IN MANY AREAS. gun control is NOT the answer, the answer is to figure out the whys behind it, so the root causes can be dealt with. these problems do not go away with gun control as places such as CANADA, and cities such as Chicago PROVE since they STILL have lots of gun crime despite having some of the most restrictive gun control. the reason? CRIMINALS do not care about LAWS, so it does nothing to stop them at all. and it is almost amusing that in Canada even 30 years ago it was EASY to get an ILLEGAL GUN, IN A SCHOOL, i have no doubt from talking with students currently in school that has not changed. in fact schools are one of the best places to buy illegal guns in Canada.

and i think you are forgetting about all those recent shootings in Canada, from the east coast to the west coast. so how do you account for that since Canada has all the gun control that people think should end the problem of shootings? but then again i guess it is easy to ignore things such as that, that get in the way of of your obvious pro-regulation ideals.

a reply to: bellagirl

I do the same here and guess what I have never been scare of anything so far, beside of the moron in government passing stupid laws.

See is an agenda what is been wagged in the US right now, this shows that in America we have a very corrupted corporate government trying to finish their take over that right now is been halted by the fact that Americans are armed to the teeth.

That is what you people in other countries that think they have freedoms can not understand and following the media sensationalism is how opinions are made.

originally posted by: generik
it is HARD to get/have/transport a gun in Canada. and the worst part is WITH ALL THE INSANE, RESTRICTIVE, AND COMPLETELY NONEFFECTIVE GUN CONTROL LAWS IN PLACE, SHOOTINGS STILL HAPPEN, IN MALLS, ON THE STREETS ETC.

Yes, it is hard. In my opinion it shouldn't be easy to obtain dangerous weapons. But it's not impossible. You just have to demonstrate to the government that you're not a criminal or mentally unbalanced, and can use and store these weapons safely. Some of my neighbors have guns. Many of my family have guns. It's obviously not prohibitively difficult for them to legally obtain guns. So why is this system of licensing and registration considered a problem to individuals such as yourself?

And never in any of my arguments did I invoke the concept that gun control completely prevents shootings. Even I'm not that silly and unrealistic. Seat belts and airbags don't completely stop traffic deaths, either.

IN FACT YOU CAN HEAR THE SOUND OF GUNFIRE ALMOST NIGHTLY IN MANY AREAS.

If you're going to claim a fact I expect you to provide evidence supportive of that claim, especially when it involves such as vast geographical swath as "many areas". Were you there to hear it?

gun control is NOT the answer, the answer is to figure out the whys behind it, so the root causes can be dealt with. these problems do not go away with gun control as places such as CANADA, and cities such as Chicago PROVE since they STILL have lots of gun crime despite having some of the most restrictive gun control. the reason? CRIMINALS do not care about LAWS, so it does nothing to stop them at all.

I agree with you on many points in this paragraph, perhaps with differing emphasis on one key word: gun control is not THE answer. It doesn't completely solve the issues at hand but I do see it as a tool for keeping some weapons out of the hands of those who might misuse them. You'll never get all the weapons away from the bad people because, as you say, criminals don't follow gun laws, and I agree with that sentiment against gun laws 100%. But it's a start. Don't you have to start somewhere? Gun regulation doesn't solve the issue, but neither does sticking one's head in the sand whenever the topic comes up.

in fact schools are one of the best places to buy illegal guns in Canada.

Again, if invoking a fact, please support it with verifiable sources. I live in Canada and this is the first I've heard of this.

and i think you are forgetting about all those recent shootings in Canada, from the east coast to the west coast. so how do you account for that since Canada has all the gun control that people think should end the problem of shootings? but then again i guess it is easy to ignore things such as that, that get in the way of of your obvious pro-regulation ideals.

Oh we have shootings, sure: the recent Moncton spree, the École Polytechnique massacre, the Mayerthorpe RCMP shootings. I don't sweep those under the rug, but I think it's pretty safe to say that such acts of gun violence are exceedingly rare in Canada when compared to the United States, and I can't help but think that perhaps - maybe - our gun regulation laws and related attitudes might have something to do with that.

And I do realize I'm taking on a pro-regulation stance in this thread, but I honestly do not feel I am pro-regulation. I just realize the potential benefit it can have and actually care little if the regulations in my country are stiffened or relaxed either way. I have no problem with guns and have even thought of getting a rifle myself in recent years, but if I choose to do so it will be according to all the laws and regulations my government says, and I don't have a problem with that at all.