Israel and the Church, in History and for Contemporary Times. To be continued LORD willing.

This is a must see...



In this short video, a Yemeni Jew explains why Allah is the one and only God and refutes the evangelical Christian claims that Islam is pagan.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Digging up one old guy that agrees with you isn't answering the question

Its not just one guy... there are PLENTY of Jews who say Islam is monotheistic. Your claims of Islam being paganistic is laughable at best. Its like reading a chick tract.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Your claims of Islam being paganistic is laughable at best.

You are in denial. Christianity and Islam both have adopted pagan rites and rituals into their system of worship. Same/same. It's all there .. sitting right in front of you. If you were honest, you'd admit it. So much for honesty.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You are in denial. Christianity and Islam both have adopted pagan rites and rituals into their system of worship. Same/same. It's all there ..

Mohammad was intolerant of paganism, he annihilated it completely. and so didn't need to include paganism ''for old times sake''.

In contrast, Christianity went from being an offshoot of Torah observant monotheism to something resembling Roman and Hindu religion.... complete with a man-god and trinity.

Jesus did not teach polytheism. He said that we have ONE father, and he is in Heaven (he is not a man on Earth):

Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

and Jesus The Christ is the ONE true teacher of God:

Matthew 23:10
Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah (Christ).

Yes, there are prophets but Jesus spoke the clearest. This is why Jesus is the most important Teacher/Instructor.


Jesus is the only one who spoke of God being Light (1 John 1:5) AND Life itself (John 1:4) AND being perfect Mercy (Matthew 5:48 / Luke 6:36) AND saying that there is absolutely no darkness with in him (1 John 1:5) and that darkness can not overcome the shining of light (John 1:5)


Satan is destructive and wants to destroy the life that God created and destroy God (The Light and Life itself) which is impossible because God showed his Perfect Love and Power when he brought the dead back to Life and performed Miracles through Jesus by like healing the sick and deadly diseases. In Heaven there is no destruction at all, only Life because The Light of God is Life and it is Satan that brings destruction. This is what separates what Jesus The Christ taught about God and every other idea of God. I have yet to see a single religion that doesn't make God into a human nature with human emotional reactions, with a Light loving side and a Dark destructive side. We are told by Christ that God is beyond human emotions and God is Light and Love and that Love is Mercy and there is no Darkness within him because The Light of God is Life itself.

so if Hindus have pictures of Jesus next to their Hindu gods, it means absolutely nothing because they are ignoring his teachings.


- One Father (who is God in Heaven)

- Perfect Mercy (rather than living in hatred or revenge)

- God is The Light and The Light is Life itself

- Satan is destructive / darkness and there is no darkness in God

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Mohammad was intolerant of paganism, he annihilated it completely. and so didn't need to include paganism ''for old times sake''.

.... and yet it's still running all through Islam. Pagan rituals. Pagan practices. Animinism. I already gave the examples and links to CREDIBLE sources of information. Someday you might want to actually read it and learn about it ...

a reply to: arpgme

Jesus did not teach polytheism. He said that we have ONE father, and he is in Heaven . . .

That just means we all have the same god.
It does not limit the number of gods.

a reply to: Akragon

. . . revelation isn't even close . . .

So what?
They are two different genres.
I would suggest reading Bible commentaries.
Don't you think it is a bit silly for you to pretend to be a Bible expert when you obviously know nothing about it on an academic level?

... revelation wasn't in the first creation of the canon of the bible, yet the rest of the books were...

It is not very useful for supporting doctrine since it isn't obviously theological in nature.

so which church were they accepted by? Certianly not what would have been considered "orthodox"...

Revelation was quoted by orthodox Christian leaders, which is how we know that it was an early writing.
Like I was saying, it was not a book that would be drug out and quoted in the middle of a theological debate, so it would have been on the "low priority" end of the list for canonization.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Mohammad was intolerant of paganism, he annihilated it completely. and so didn't need to include paganism ''for old times sake''.

.... and yet it's still running all through Islam. Pagan rituals. Pagan practices. Animinism. I already gave the examples and links to CREDIBLE sources of information..

Yeah, as ''credible'' as chick tracts. Actually, you might as well start posting chick tracts. I havent seen those in a while and I could use a good laugh. See, Muslims dont care what man-god worshiping polytheists a.k.a Christians ''think'' about Islam. Their opinions don't matter because they are theologically in the same basket as hindus, given the trinity and ''god becoming man''.

originally posted by: arpgme


so if Hindus have pictures of Jesus next to their Hindu gods, it means absolutely nothing......

My point about hindus is that they, like Christians...ALSO have the concept of God becoming man. Which is why hindus are completely okay with the idea that Jesus was an 'avatar' of God. Whether or not they follow Jesus is irrelevant....they too have the concept of ''God becoming man'', like Christians.

a reply to: jmdewey60

So what?
They are two different genres.

Obviously... one is good for spiritual teaching, the other is useless... but entertaining to read...

I would suggest reading Bible commentaries.

You've suggested this many times over the years... again, no thanks...

Im not interested in reading peoples opinions on scripture of any kind, i'd rather read it myself....

Don't you think it is a bit silly for you to pretend to be a Bible expert when you obviously know nothing about it on an academic level?

I don't need to be an "expert"... I am free to have my opinion of it, or any other book...

I've read it many times, and its clearly not Jesus...

Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart...

That is NOT the revelation of John... and I don't believe he would suddenly change once going back to the Father

It is not very useful for supporting doctrine since it isn't obviously theological in nature.

Its not very useful for anything... aside from making people believe the end is coming... that is the idea behind apocalyptic writing... Fear

Revelation was quoted by orthodox Christian leaders, which is how we know that it was an early writing.

Most of which had their own agenda, like most church leaders all throughout history...

And I know you've realized this...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Like I was saying, it was not a book that would be drug out and quoted in the middle of a theological debate, so it would have been on the "low priority" end of the list for canonization.

that is really besides the point...

Christians call Jesus the "Word" of God, and he says specifically that HE is your teacher and no other... Learn from him, understand him... revelation is not him, its John...

Nothing else in the bible is HIM either.... why would anyone need any thing other then his WORDS... Unless they have an agenda... the simple answer is, they don't... but the church disagrees with that idea, and they always have

a reply to: sk0rpi0n
Q - 'Why do Muslims run between hills like the pagans did before them'.
A - *dead silence*
Q - 'Why do Muslims have Hubals star and crescent as their symbol, even on Mosques?
A - 'You sound like a Islam debunker so I won't answer'.
Q - How do Muslims know Muhammad was really a prophet?
A - 'cuz he said so'
Q - 'Scripture says Moses mass murdered and gave sex slaves to soldiers, right'?
A - Don't you dare quote scripture facts. just adore the guy and ignore the facts.
Q - 'Why do Muslims believe the afterlife is an orgy of the senses when in fact Jesus Himself said 'no marriage' so no sex??
A - 'cuz we like it and therefore it'll be there no matter what Jesus said'.

Go ahead and continue to think God is sending people to hell for cutting their beards, for mixing seeds in gardens, and for eating bacon. Go ahead and continue to lie about Christians being polytheists. Go ahead and continue not to listen to anything people say that proves you wrong. Its your life. I'm glad my mind and soul are on a different level of understanding.

/OUT

a reply to: Akragon

Its not very useful for anything... aside from making people believe the end is coming... that is the idea behind apocalyptic writing... Fear

The end did come.
There was plenty of fear already in the world.
The Jewish converts to Christianity had to live through the biggest disaster in history, a million of their countrymen killed by the Romans and thousands sold into slavery.
Revelation gave hope that things were going to get better later.

Christians call Jesus the "Word" of God, and he says specifically that HE is your teacher and no other... Learn from him, understand him... revelation is not him, its John...

There is plenty of red letter type in Revelation.
You may choose not to accept it, but that is your discrimination.
The fact is that there were some really harsh times for Christians and here was a book at hand that people could find solace in.
You are letting modern misuse of the book poison your opinion of it.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: sk0rpi0n
Q - 'Why do Muslims run between hills like the pagans did before them'.
A - *dead silence*
Q - 'Why do Muslims have Hubals star and crescent as their symbol, even on Mosques?
A - 'You sound like a Islam debunker so I won't answer'.
Q - How do Muslims know Muhammad was really a prophet?
A - 'cuz he said so'
Q - 'Scripture says Moses mass murdered and gave sex slaves to soldiers, right'?
A - Don't you dare quote scripture facts. just adore the guy and ignore the facts.
Q - 'Why do Muslims believe the afterlife is an orgy of the senses when in fact Jesus Himself said 'no marriage' so no sex??
A - 'cuz we like it and therefore it'll be there no matter what Jesus said'.

Go ahead and continue to think God is sending people to hell for cutting their beards, for mixing seeds in gardens, and for eating bacon. Go ahead and continue to lie about Christians being polytheists. Go ahead and continue not to listen to anything people say that proves you wrong. Its your life. I'm glad my mind and soul are on a different level of understanding.

/OUT

Anybody who reads through this thread would know I never said any of those things.and I didn't bother debunking your ''islam =pagan'' claims for the same reason I dont bother debunking chick tracts, its laughable at best. That said... go finish your bacon, take your meds and get some rest.

sorry double post.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
go finish your bacon, take your meds and get some rest.

I knew that snipe was coming ....
The medication is for autoimmune.
It's not psychological in any way.
So don't even go there.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Mohammad was intolerant of paganism, he annihilated it completely. and so didn't need to include paganism ''for old times sake''.

What?
No, he didn't. There are STILL pagans in the world - millions of them. Mohammed Fail.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

See, Muslims dont care what man-god worshiping polytheists a.k.a Christians ''think'' about Islam. Their opinions don't matter because they are theologically in the same basket as hindus, given the trinity and ''god becoming man''.

I find this highly disturbing.

They should care, and your dismissive rude attitude towards them as 'nothing worth paying attention to' belies your so-called 'piety' and 'peaceful faith.' This country has been trying to wrap its head around Islam for, hmmm....nearly 13 years now - and not much info forthcoming.

You don't want to be understood? Fine. Then keep it to yourself, and leave everyone else alone. "Finish your bacon" indeed.
How very rude. Go get out your prayer rug and take a deep breath. You're just a guy who changed his route halfway through his current existence and decided to share that fact. That doesn't make you special or particularly 'safe' in spiritual terms, in case you weren't aware.

BTW, a question for you to ponder (though I expect no response to it): Do you have loved ones who are NOT Muslim? You'd better let them know you don't give a CRAP about them, if you haven't already. And might add in that they are going to hell...you know... So they don't spend their energy caring about you, either, you know. Just to be on a level playing field.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Mohammad was intolerant of paganism, he annihilated it completely. and so didn't need to include paganism ''for old times sake''.

What?
No, he didn't. There are STILL pagans in the world - millions of them. Mohammed Fail.

given the context of the conversation, its clear I was referring to the geographical region Mohammad operated in.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

I'm now reading the entire thread....
up to about page 5.

You've been advised that you know nothing about Jews (as per WarmInIndy, who is intimately familiar with Jews), and also are 'wrong' about Islam (as per maes2, who clearly has a grasp of Islam), and also wrong about Christians being polytheists (as per FlyersFan, who is a former nun and very educated about Christianity.) Not to mention jmdewey, whose contributions to the thread are extremely interesting and display a very keen knowledge about the Bible, its history, and the nuances involved; I would venture to say he is the 'subject-matter-expert' in regards to Biblical studies/knowledge from an English-speaking perspective.

So - you're wrong on all accounts. Context is important. In the context of this thread (I am put off by the OP's subtitle as a 'spiritual warrior', having just seen on Sunday a preacher selling a "Spiritual Warfare Bible" for $107 which includes his other book about whatever) (my computer was dead, and I had to resort to TV, and just for kicks tuned in to all the God Channels).....

in my opinion, ALL 'organized religions' are wrong.

And besides that - Krishna and Jesus were the manifestations of God, and probably the same reincarnated 'avatar.'

Anyway - I'd like to know the answers (the easy yes/no ones) to FlyersFan's questions to you.
You seem unable to answer them. If you were able, you'd be willing. But you aren't, so you don't know what you're talking about.

Oh well. Stop hating people. Start realizing that we are all equal in the eyes of our Creator. Stop preaching what you don't understand, and give other people a break. Answer their questions. Admit your ignorance on certain matters.
THEN, you might be worthy of the Creator's respect.

Don't care what I think? Cool. I don't care what you think, either.