Odessa slaughter: How vicious mob burnt anti-govt activists alive

a reply to: maghun

I didn't realize the next excuse would be just as pathetic....

a reply to: Xcathdra

No more excuses, just sit back and wait. More and more come to light worldwide.

In his January 2012 State of the Union address, U.S. President Barack Obama asserted that that “anyone who tells you that America is in decline or that our influence has waned doesn’t know what they’re talking about.” But in a December 2012 report, the U.S. National Intelligence Council argued that while America will remain the “first among equals with the rapid rise of other countries…the era of American ascendancy in international politics that began in 1945 is fast winding down.” Ukraine offers further evidence of that.

The end of American world order

How will the ukrainian national guard get back Crimea, if they cannot conquer some "russian terrorist" in Novorossia even with the use of ammo banned by international conventions?

...but this topic is about the Odessa Massacre. Washingtonsblog is a russian propaganda site too?

a reply to: maghun

Please explain how two French Mistral class Helicopter carriers France is building for Russia is "use of ammo banned"?

Please explain how an article about Bush and Cheney is relevant?

As for the topic comment I think you, thru your demonstrations in your post, should not lecture others about topic when nothing in your post was even closely on topic.

As for Odessa let the investigation run its course and see where it leads. As I stated before if an investigation can locate suspects then they should be brought to justice using law and not the Russian version of kidnapping them, beating them and then leaving them for dead in the Ukraine country side.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Sorry, this is the correct link: banned ammo

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: maghun
As for the topic comment I think you, thru your demonstrations in your post, should not lecture others about topic when nothing in your post was even closely on topic.

As for Odessa let the investigation run its course and see where it leads. As I stated before if an investigation can locate suspects then they should be brought to justice using law and not the Russian version of kidnapping them, beating them and then leaving them for dead in the Ukraine country side.

Washingtonsblog

On 2 May 2014, there was a massacre that was initially reported as being of 116 anti-Kiev (or independence) demonstrators at the Trade Unions Building in Odessa. The latest reliable report (from an American, George Eliason, who lives in that area) indicates it to be instead “now counted at 272 people that were tortured, gassed …, bludgeoned, …, etc.,” above and beyond the numbers who had been incinerated there by the firebombing of the building. Western news-media unfortunately seem to be doing all they can to keep the public ignorant of what went on there, and of why.

originally posted by: Vovin
a reply to: Siddharta

Wow man, I barely even know what you're talking about.

Yes, I realized this earlier.

My sources are people on the ground in Ukraine, and they are always posting events before they hit the MSM (if at all) while criticizing the inept coverage by the western MSM.

You seem not to know what Twitter is. These people are on the ground either and report first hand, too.

You talk about Russian media showing videos from other conflicts, but every time I see that on Russian media, they are criticizing western MSM. Just today I watched some editorial from RT where the journalist criticized CNN for presenting the Syrian helicopter going down as coverage from Ukraine (for like the third time, btw),

That is how it works all the time. Today both sides claimed, that the other side was shelling the children's hospital in Slovyansk. But what would be the gain for the Uktainian army to shoot at that hospital? They would look bad. It only makes sense if the other side wants them to look bad.
Also 200 children were evacuated from Slovyansk. Later it was said, that the bus went direction of the Crimea, but Ukrainian posts sent them back. Then it disappeared. For some hours pro Ukrainians feared that the children would be killed by the pro Russians to accuse the pro Ukrainians. The Russian media already reported that the bus was shot by Ukrainian army. Finally it was reported that the children arrived save in Crimea by train. None of these stories are really verified yet.

My sources are posting raw footage of army assaults and casualties every few hours. It's pretty hard to disbelieve what they are showing with evidence.

So you know by now that many fighters from Russia died in the east of the Ukraine, many of them from Chechnya. They were kept in an ice cream factory and brought back in ice cream trucks with a red cross painted on the sides.

Here is a report from one of the reporters, who was invited to accompany the journey: Coffins full of slain Russian fighters for the People’s Republic of Donetsk

In the same time many report of those thousands of people, who try to flee the region. Others looted the Metro supermarket today. These are the people, who have to suffer. The self acclaimed mayors and self defenders are enjoying their power right now. Until it's over.

Edit to add: I just received this tweet

The ice has moved. #Russia has openly declared non-intervention into E #Ukraine events. Crimea might return soon.

Would change a lot, if this is true.

a reply to: Siddharta

"What would be the gain for the Ukrainian army to shell a children's hospital?"

First of all, it was a children's clinic and a general hospital.

Second, I must of missed the part where the separatists had heavy artillery and mortars, encircled their own cities, and started bombarding themselves.

"French Mistral class Helicopter carriers France is building "

actually rumour has it that they will be going too NATO instead.

a reply to: Xcathdra

originally posted by: BobAthome
"French Mistral class Helicopter carriers France is building "

actually rumour has it that they will be going too NATO instead.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The "rumour" is that NATO is trying to intimidate France into cutting military ties with Russia. NATO "asking" for the ships for themselves is, ultimately, a symbolic "you're either with us or against us" move.

originally posted by: Vovin
a reply to: Siddharta
Second, I must of missed the part where the separatists had heavy artillery and mortars, encircled their own cities, and started bombarding themselves.

Yes, you miss a lot of things, because you only follow the propaganda of the first attacker, I think.
You think, it is right to take over a part of another country, cause hate and destruction, supporting some gangsters, who claim themselves as new heads of towns and even declaring themselves as a free state. Even Russia does not support them openly, but just sends thugs with masks.

You won't tell me, the east of Ukraine is now much better then before, are you? Every day with this hate and wrong accusations is getting the east more down the path.

No civilised country would accept some idiots to take over some town halls and acclaim themselves as the new govenours. That's simply stupid. I think, it would have been a task for the police. But then again those thugs are weaponed like an army and the local police is too helpless, even if they wanted to do something. You don't accept the gov in Kiev, but you accept any idiot with a gun to take over a town?

It is all about keeping this country together and limt the damage that already has been done. This only can be done, when those little Napoleons and Capones are chased away. Instead people must flee, because of all this nonsense that costs life. On BOTH sides, just to inform you.

a reply to: Siddharta

Earlier letter of dead russian so-called "terrorist", who left wife and child:

А это бесполезно скажу тебе , если даже жена понимает что не удержать.. Надломила меня Одесса , и вся эта ситуация. Я здоровый мужик, не могу сидеть за бабьей спиной, и прикрываться работой и детьми.. Я по природе, по осознанию себя воин, там мое место, я дышу тем воздухом.. И я очень резкий на неправду человек.. Хоть и простодушный) что для русского мужика мне кажется совсем не недостаток) не хитрый я совсем...

"And it's useless to tell me, even if my wife understand she can not stop me. Shattered by Odessa Massacre, athis whole situation. I'm a healthy guy, I can not sit behind a woman's back and hide behind the work and children... By nature, and in awareness I'm a warrior, there is my place, I want to breathe that air .. And I'm very harsh on the injustice of people... Though I am simple person (I think this is not a weakness for Russians) I'm not crafty..."

Why the ukrainian army is shelling, bombing towns, using snipers?? Maybe because they cannot conquer some "terrorists" who are not only fighting succesfully the ukrainian national guard, but terrorising 7 million residents of that region.

a reply to: maghun
There is no doubt here that the Ukraine Army appears weak. But you just showed the words of a sick person, who sees himself as a warrior.
What is that?

We don't need warriors to build up a civilization, do we?

No, we need to talk to each other.

Look at me and Xcathdra. We never were of the same opinion in the past. But here we are fighting the ignorance together, because you are not able to exchange a real view on what happens. You simply repeat the same arguments again and again. Which are usually Russian propaganda.

I am a leftist, Xcathdra is on the far right side. Not a Nazi, as you like to accuse people quickly, but a conservative. Here we stand together and ask for some human sense.

I find it very ironical that I can share positions and views with him more than with you. Because politically I think we should be closer. But obviously we are not.

And stop these stupid propaganda speach. You are worse than the soldiers on the ground.

originally posted by: Siddharta

originally posted by: Vovin
a reply to: Siddharta
Second, I must of missed the part where the separatists had heavy artillery and mortars, encircled their own cities, and started bombarding themselves.

Yes, you miss a lot of things, because you only follow the propaganda of the first attacker, I think.
You think, it is right to take over a part of another country, cause hate and destruction, supporting some gangsters, who claim themselves as new heads of towns and even declaring themselves as a free state. Even Russia does not support them openly, but just sends thugs with masks.

You won't tell me, the east of Ukraine is now much better then before, are you? Every day with this hate and wrong accusations is getting the east more down the path.

No civilised country would accept some idiots to take over some town halls and acclaim themselves as the new govenours. That's simply stupid. I think, it would have been a task for the police. But then again those thugs are weaponed like an army and the local police is too helpless, even if they wanted to do something. You don't accept the gov in Kiev, but you accept any idiot with a gun to take over a town?

It is all about keeping this country together and limt the damage that already has been done. This only can be done, when those little Napoleons and Capones are chased away. Instead people must flee, because of all this nonsense that costs life. On BOTH sides, just to inform you.

It is you who is missing things if you think it's the rebels from east Ukraine that are taking over anything. Your fascist friends already took over the country, and now they are trying to crush dissent by slaughtering rebels, women and children alike via wanton destruction, which is ANOTHER war crime.

I'm not on your side because I don't support discriminate murder of free-thinking people by skinheads and the rich. If I did, I'd be fascist too. Unfortunately I don't think it's morally justified to support the ethnic cleansing of a people because the killers may be said to be within their legal rights.

I am a leftist,

That is either a bold-faced lie or complete ignorance of real political insight.

a reply to: Vovin

You ARE the REAl fascist.

You only don't realize it.

originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: Vovin

You ARE the REAl fascist.

You only don't realize it.

I have a degree in political science. I went to university to directly study the definition of political ideology. Academia recognized my ability to understand these concepts by rewarding me with documentation stating as such.

So what do you know.

EDIT:

Just to rub it in, the very definition of fascism is a political system where the social order is structured where a minority (aka the rich under capitalism) make the laws and run the government.

The first thing this junta did was emplacement billionaire oligarchs as governors over regions, and now the regions are rebellion while the oligarchs are sending in private forces who slaughter people and have even fought with the Ukrainian army.

It's disgraceful to call yourself a "leftist" when you are very clearly demonizing a classic leftist rebellion while trying to legitimize the fascist coup and its actions.

"You think, it is right " no, but it is real rebelution, so anything can happen,
,thats why its called chaos. And death follows with it.


a reply to: Siddharta

a reply to: BobAthome

Chaos with masters (the day of Odessa Massacre) thru google glass :

The journalist was attracted by the appearance of group of men clearly not local appearance with white rubber gloves. Briton hailed them, one wearing a blue T-shirt with the inscription "I love chemicals" deigned to devote a couple of minutes. He said that he had come from Israel. He was asked about amateur chemistry, and whether he is an observer and the man calmly replied, "No, I do not watch, we take part in it." He then explains that he has dual citizenship: U.S. and Israel.

Apparently, that was not without Mossad, about the CIA everyone knows. They are not hiding, taking half of one floor of the Security Service of Ukraine in Kiev and posted there their flag openly.

a reply to: maghun

this security services building?



Ukrainian women's movement FEMEN activists bear the acronym of the Ukrainian Secret Services (SBU),
reading "SBU-bitches," on their underwear and bras
as they block the entrance of the Ukrainian Secret Services building

during a protest in Kiev on June 23, 2010 against lawlessness in the country.

And your worried about ???
Sorry not getting what u mean.

a reply to: BobAthome

a little more info on the FEMEN movement in Ukraine.

"Ukrainian women's movement FEMEN activists bear the acronym of the Ukrainian Secret Services (SBU),"





yaa

originally posted by: Vovin
the very definition of fascism is a political system where the social order is structured where a minority (aka the rich under capitalism) make the laws and run the government.

No, it is not. Fascism is simply spreading hate and calling for war and death on people, you don't like. And this is what you do all the time here.
Fascism also means using every lie to prove that the killing of other people is right. It is NEVER right.

Fascism does not accept any other view of what happens and always uses every mean to show, that the ones, who are thought to be killed, are the evil. Fascim also means, there is no way to talk anymore, beacuse this never is the goal of fascims. They want to kill their opponents and are not interested in talking.