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originally posted by: bastion
originally posted by: Meee32
a reply to: bastion
Yeah but then the police leave them to die... How come? Is it just they bottled it? Or was it planned to stand down at that point? I guess we may never know. Hopefully we'll get some more info as the days progress...
Took the words right out my mouth. As soon as I editted my post I remembered not seeing a single policeman there when people were trying to rescue others from the building.
From how brutal the police and pro ukranians fought, I'm finding it hard to believe police were 'in on it' - but them seemingly vanishing when a major fire is burning through a building they know is full of men women and children is something I've never seen before.
Something very odd has happened there - here's the BBC coverage www.bbc.co.uk... - I see a grand total of 1 policeman at the start about 20m away from the building and offering no help. Civilians are doing all the police/fire brigade work. Fairly sure this constitutes a war crime of sorts.
originally posted by: Siddharta
We must take a step back and not only think of Ukrainians as Nazis and terrorists - as both sides are labeled. I think police and military have a lot more problems. There is inner confusion and conflict.
The ICC is NOT a part of the UN. Its an independent group that works WITH the UN and is founded by... wait for it.... European countries.
"There are three ways of removing a President under Ukrainian law: one is his death, the other is when he personally steps down, and the third is impeachment. The latter is a well-deliberated constitutional norm. It has to involve the Constitutional Court, the Supreme Court and the Rada. This is a complicated and lengthy procedure. It was not carried out. Therefore, from a legal perspective this is an undisputed fact."
No investigatory commission was established and the Courts were not involved. On 22 February, the Rada simply passed a bill removing President Yanukovych from office.
Here is a picture of a Pro Kiev supporter wearing one too, he has the flag on his chest along with his trusty grenade
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad
Here is a picture of a Pro Kiev supporter wearing one too, he has the flag on his chest along with his trusty grenade
So maybe you can explain the other ribbon that is on his shirt...You know the ribbon that Pro Russians wear the St. George ribbon.
The pro Kiev supporters have been very quite on this thread since the videos got posted, pretty damning evidence, just ignored.
I have a question about some of your damning evidence... In this video it shows flames starting in the building yet there was nothing thrown at that window, how did that fire start?
Look at the post under mine, he explained it to me already, why do you feel the need to explain again, I was wrong.
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad
The pro Kiev supporters have been very quite on this thread since the videos got posted, pretty damning evidence, just ignored.
I have a question about some of your damning evidence... In this video it shows flames starting in the building yet there was nothing thrown at that window, how did that fire start?
No fire...
And 2 seconds later we have a fire starting without anyone throwing anything near the window at least from the outside.
So just how did that fire start inside without some help, because last time I checked fires don't start on their own.
0.43-47 “Let us burn those mother#ers right in the building, #ing faggots” 1.08 – Everything around is already burning. Injured people are lying on the ground. 1.18-1.20 Maidan activist Mykola is running and shooting at people, who are trying to escape from the window. 2.34-2.36 Older man is telling “Go from the other side around, through the bathroom!” «Ребята, с той стороны, через туалет!» 2.44 – He was told to continue his commands and then answered “ Do not film me” , «Меня не снимай» 3.20 – Fire inside. Operator is telling the building will start to burn now. Second floor is burning. 3.50 – Operator notices that someone is trying to extinguish the fire from the inside. 4.08 – Man is advising to throw more Molotovs. “Throw them, throw them!” , “Кидай кидай,блять!” 4.32 – You may see grenade explosion at the front of the entrance. 5.40-5.50 - attackers throw more fire to the window and then are shouting “GOAL!!!” 6.25 – 7.13 – The same man, Mykola, who is wearing yellow-blue bandage on his left arm, is shooting at people who are trying to catch air and are seen from the window. 8.07 – Operator is wondering what is going on inside. He says that the crowd has started to move inside the house. 8.10 – Maidan activists are telling each other to go to the backyard, because people are trying to escape from there 8.26 – Crowd is shouting “They are escaping! Run to the backyard!” «Они выходят сзади!» 8.42 –This is the front of the building. More cocktails are thrown. 9.41-9.47 – Nationalists are screaming “# them right there, throw to the windows!” , «Хуярьте туда, кидайте в окна!» 10.40 Lady is filming the fire. In front of the building,tents, boxes, almost all found items are set on fire. The smoke from the fireplace is quickly absorbed to the building. If the firefighters would have been there, may be less people would have asphyxated inside. 13.00 – Operator is moving to the backyard. 14.15- People, who are still alive are shouting “Police, you have been bought as scums and all of you will go to prison afterwards!” антифашисты еще живые кричат в мегафон- ""менты продажные твари- всех вас потом посадят в тюрьму- " 14.17 – A bus, where police officers are situated. 14.41 – Man from the window is shouting “Citizens of Odessa city, rise up!” 15.40- менты стоят все это время ЗА Домом Профсоюэов и они спокойно общаются пока здание уже горит с центрального входа и на 1 этаже. 15.49 – Operator shows where police officers are situated. They are simply chatting, while the building is burning from the front and on the first floor. 16.40- People start to jump from the window. 2, 3,4 dead bodies. 21.00 still alive girls are shouting from the second and third floor. 23.00- Burning man has fallen from the window. Crowd is happy. Operator is asking them to help, but the answer is “They have cut off heads of activists in Kiev”. 23.20- Anti-nationalist man is lying on the roof. Maidan nazzis are shouting to him “Jump! Glory to the Ukraine!”, «Прыгай! Слава Украине!»
So what you think they set themselves on fire? Pretty extreme assumption, what would the have to gain from being dead?
So what you think they set themselves on fire? Pretty extreme assumption, what would the have to gain from being dead?
Funny thing about fires when they start, they spread, are you saying no molotovs where thrown at the building?
Did you even watch the videos from the people that escaped the building? That old woman looks like a spetsnaz operative doesn't she?
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad
So what you think they set themselves on fire? Pretty extreme assumption, what would the have to gain from being dead?
I am just interested how you get the people on the ground set these fires when it starts inside a building with nothing from the outside to start it?
Funny thing about fires when they start, they spread, are you saying no molotovs where thrown at the building?
I didn't say that now did I, but in this case there was nothing thrown near that area to start that fire from the outside so how did it start?
You seem to be sidestepping the fact it started from the inside not the outside, why?
Did you even watch the videos from the people that escaped the building? That old woman looks like a spetsnaz operative doesn't she?
And who said anything about anyone being a Spetsnaz, I surely didn't. Nor did I ever make that assumption.
A transcript of the videos in casijones link, did you even look at it before having a go at my post?
Then the "Maidan" crowd blocked fire trucks to prevent them from helping: