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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on May, 3 2014 @ 11:38 PM
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a reply to: BobAthome

I cant.. Pro Russian forces are preventing me from entering the area.

I am assuming you were able to pass through and do your own investigation?

Also is this where we are at now? you making accusations and instead of supporting them posting crap with snide remarks that make no sense? Let me know would you please?

Secondly, how does the incident in Odessa answer my question about your logic of death camps in Ukraine and death camps in Russia? Please explain.


Updates from Odessa

MaidanOnline ‏@MaidanOnline · 2m
Summary of Events in Odesa: May 2, 2014 wp.me... fb.me...



edit on 3-5-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 3 2014 @ 11:43 PM
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You mention redistributing wealth.........STEALING. And then you mention how it will lead to a free market. Are you guys for real or what?
a reply to: SubTruth

Redistributing wealth is stealing? since when?

One cannot commit a murder and go to prison and then write a book and become a millionaire. In US such provisions are denied in the judgement and same analogy should be applied in ill gotten corporate wealth/assets.

Hence oligarchs cannot bribe a state minister to buy a company for 25% of the value and then take it public for market to value it 4x and become an instant billionaire.

Having access to loans and funds was an easy way to become Oligarch way back in 90s. In US/West many 20 somethings became rich by innovation and enterprise but in Russia many 20-30 somethings became rich just by having a contact who would get them funds to buy the company. That is not free market economics. That is why Ukraine is bankrupt even after 25 years and why Russia is so much captive to energy prices to keep its economy in balance.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 11:46 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

i glady and freely admit too "making accusations" ,,that there were indeed Waffen SS in the Ukraine, both during the atrocities, which included "rounding people up" ,but hey does that count?

no i'm sorry u dont get a pass on supporting the Genocide of a People, just cause u don't believe that they are indeed special.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:04 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


ok i will try too
"answer my question about your logic of death camps in Ukraine and death camps in Russia? Please explain."



As God once said too Cain,
" u cant bash his head in with a rock,, because he made u feel bad "

thats Bad,,,
and more importantly he's your brother.

even if u are a woman it still applies.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:27 AM
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originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: Xcathdra

i glady and freely admit too "making accusations" ,,that there were indeed Waffen SS in the Ukraine, both during the atrocities, which included "rounding people up" ,but hey does that count?

no i'm sorry u dont get a pass on supporting the Genocide of a People, just cause u don't believe that they are indeed special.



If I remember history correctly Ukraine was a part of Russia prior to WWII and Soviet involvement yes? no?
Since those troops were defacto Russian citizens, they were in fact an SS unit for Nazi Germany while Russian citizens.

It means Russia, based on your logic, also had and operated Death Camps on their territory. It also means Russia citizens, and not Ukrainians, were members of the SS units.

Now, you wanna try this again or do you still want to play games with history where you have absolutely no chance of walking back your lack of knowledge of WWII, Russia, Ukraine and the holocaust while trying to argue an exception that does not exist.

If Ukraine was not part of the Soviet Union, then the Soviet Union has no claims to Sevastopol, Crimea or any other portion of Ukraine.

Since you don't know history I will help you out. If Ukraine ran death camps, then by extension the soviet union ran death camps. There is absolutely no way for you to try and force a difference where one does not exist.

In fact the Nazi's ran death camps in occupied territories, including Russia AND Ukraine. The only other government to set up and run death camps under their own authority was Croatia.

now that we established you are not familiar with history, lets move on.


Ruptly ‏@Ruptly · 2m
'Russia and Ukraine are Slavic brothers', says ukrainian priest ow.ly...



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: BobAthome

So you cant explain the difference between death camps in Russia and death camps in Ukraine - check.

See previous post for more information -



Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 5m
Ukrainian Americans Rally for #Ukraine #DC May 3 Photo Album on.fb.me... | EMPR pic.twitter.com/FQRNXajv82




Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 13m
Ukrainian Americans protest against #Putin at #Russian Embassy #DC 5/3 http://(link tracking not allowed)/1nforo8 |EMPR #Ukraine



Amazing this comes out on the heals of the unknown blast at the facilities in Odessa -

RT ‏@RT_com · 14m
#Ukraine can’t guarantee full transit of gas to Europe, warns Russian energy minister on.rt.com...



US Mission to NATO ‏@USNATO · 31m
The Standing NATO Mine Countermeasures Group, side by side, in the Baltic Sea | More at www.mc.nato.int... pic.twitter.com/AbJxKfzVGQ




CNN International ‏@cnni · 33m
Putin has gone too far dlvr.it...

Direct video link to CCN Video



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:16 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: Xcathdra
www.abovetopsecret.com...
"The soccer fans were unarmed" soccer fans unarmed,,LOLOLOLOLOLOLO,, ya right.


Are you not capable of anything more than a liar liar pants on fire response?

Should the incident not be investigated? Should those responsible not be held accountable?

Or should we ignore it all because you find part of the story funny?





"Three fans are reported to have gunshot wounds while the officer was shot in the hand before the Italian Cup final."


news.sky.com...

and that Italy!!!!!!!!!

So ya pretty funny.
edit on 5/4/2014 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:32 AM
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43 Pro Russians Burnt alive by Neo nazis in Odessa .. This is going to get Rough
edit on 4-5-2014 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:03 AM
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originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Xcathdra


As i said im seeing more and more attacks on Ukrainian oligarchs. Even the govenor Vladimir Nemirovsky of Odessa Region in Odessa is a steel magnet. And Pro Russians are calling for his resignation. They burn the bank owned by another i mentioned earlier Kolomoysky having his main office torched for his company. Then Kerns was shot and almost killed while jogging. Behind the scenes we have a private war going on against Ukrainian oligarchs not to mention anotheris ahead in the polls likely to be next president.


And why not !! What happened in 1990s is as follows:

Former Soviet Union split apart and threw away state ownership of assets in one evening.

State assets were put on sale.

General population had no money.

Jews had contacts with Jewish bankers overseas.

They quickly arranged foreign loans and bribed their way to buy state assets

State assets brought at throw away prices like for dime on a dollar

As economies gained stability somewhat these assets exploded in prices

Soon there were billionaires propping up everywhere

Showing the value of these assets, they were able to get more loans

Using these "new" loans they bought other industries and became...............

OLIGARCHS !!!!!!!!!!

Most of these oligarch are Jewish as they had access to funds through global Jewish cabal i.e. mafia like bankers

ps: I have nothing against the Jews but everything against those Jews who looted Russia in 1990s.

ps2: Once Ukraine is settles, Putin should take these companies from the Oligarchs and find a more fair way to redistribute assets to general people. Then real free market economics will take place.



Not quite.


It was much more nuanced than that.

'Loans for shares' scheme was a very unique mechanism whereby the largest state assets were privatized (smaller concerns had been privatized earlier under a distribution to the general populace called 'voucher privatization'). The state's assets were not sold outright in the loans for shares scheme. They were divided into temporary shares that were essentially held as collateral for loans made to the government by Russian banks during the fiscal crisis of 1995. The earliest entrepreneurs under Gorbechev's Perestroika policies had formed Russia's first western style banks out of necessity to carry the most basic investment and financing of new enterprises. However, through their personal connections within the government, these future oligarchs prevented competitive bidding during the 1995 auctions of the shares. And when the government defaulted on the repayment of said loans, they acquired the large assets permanently and at a fraction of their worth.

The prevalence of Jewish persons among the oligarchs cannot be denied but to say that state assets were purchased directly because of loans made by foreign Jewish bankers is an immense simplification if not perverse distortion. It could be argued that an anti-Semitic innuendo prevails among some in the Kremlin's inner circle. Putin himself has done much to bring the oligarchs in line, believing they fleeced the wealth and therefore power base of Russia after the Soviet Union's collapse. But Putin is a very practical and shrewd leader when it comes to consolidating power. He will only jail or assassinate such men after they refuse his first offers at compromise.

edit on 4-5-2014 by ALoveSupreme because: typo as its hard to type on touchscreen with nails



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:12 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: BobAthome

I cant.. Pro Russian forces are preventing me from entering the area.

I am assuming you were able to pass through and do your own investigation?

Also is this where we are at now? you making accusations and instead of supporting them posting crap with snide remarks that make no sense? Let me know would you please?

Secondly, how does the incident in Odessa answer my question about your logic of death camps in Ukraine and death camps in Russia? Please explain.


Updates from Odessa

MaidanOnline ‏@MaidanOnline · 2m
Summary of Events in Odesa: May 2, 2014 wp.me... fb.me...




Dear Xcathdra, you should not waste so much effort debating some of these persons.

Any reference to Ukraine's 'death camps' (among the silliest and easily debunked rumors done on behalf of Russian Pravda and its tabloid ilk) should be a simple sign for you to move on.


I enjoy your posts and would hate to think you missed a good news item because of such futile expenditure.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:29 AM
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Various Ukrainian reactions to Odessa tragedy:



Blogger -- Yevhen Ikhelzon

"Despite the fact that the unrest in Ukraine is directed from abroad, Ukrainians need national reconciliation."


Satirical blogger -- Roman Shrayk

"It it's confirmed that most of the victims are actually not from Odessa, then this will certainly mean that this was a special [Russian] operation gone awry."


Military journalist -- Dmitry Tymchuk

"From late April, the sabotage groups of Russian special services and groups of provocateurs were tasked to infiltrate Ukraine and work with local pro-Russian separatists to destabilise the situation in the south, mainly in Odessa. However, the beginning of the active phase of the antiterrorist operation in Sloviansk prompted the Russian leadership to rush things in south Ukraine and Ukrainian security services to urgently relocate forces from Donetsk region. We witnessed the tragic outcome of this monstrous act of provocation in Odessa yesterday."


Human right activist -- Serhiy Naumovych

"This was Nord-Ost in Odessa. Dozens of people were poisoned by gas and died. This time, by carbon monoxide. The culprit is the same."


Espreso TV presenter -- Oleksandr Holubov

"Forgive me, but I cannot feel sorry at all for the separatists in Odessa. There is and there cannot be any joy, but I am struggling to find any sympathy."


Kiev journalist -- Serhiy Vysotskyy

"As a human being, I am sorry for the people who died in the Trade Unions House. Maybe they became mercenaries because they were having a difficult life or out of stupidity or because they were genuine patriots of Russia. They had their loved ones, children, parents. But they came to Odessa with a sword and eventually died from a sword. I am sorry for them, but they wished death for my country and, therefore, made Ukraine defend itself. Killing in self-defence is not murder. But I also condemn jubilation over these deaths."

edit on 4-5-2014 by ALoveSupreme because: typo as its hard to type on touchscreen with nails



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:41 AM
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Here is an excerpt from a very illuminating article in the New York Times about the complex origins and motivations of some Ukrainian separatists:




Moscow says they are Ukrainians and not part of the Russian armed forces, as the so-called green men in Crimea turned out to be.

Western officials and the Ukrainian government insist that Russians have led, organized and equipped the fighters.

A deeper look at the 12th Company — during more than a week of visiting its checkpoints, interviewing its fighters and observing them in action against a Ukrainian military advance here on Friday — shows that in its case neither portrayal captures the full story.

The rebels of the 12th Company appear to be Ukrainians but, like many in the region, have deep ties to and affinity for Russia. They are veterans of the Soviet, Ukrainian or Russian Armies, and some have families on the other side of the border. Theirs is a tangled mix of identities and loyalties.

Further complicating the picture, while the fighters share a passionate distrust of Ukraine’s government and the Western powers that support it, they disagree among themselves about their ultimate goals. They argue about whether Ukraine should redistribute power via greater federalization or whether the region should be annexed by Russia, and they harbor different views about which side might claim Kiev, the capital, and even about where the border of a divided Ukraine might lie.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 03:09 AM
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originally posted by: ProfessorT

@PaulaSlier_RT: 3 members of the self-defense forces & 2 civilians have died during the military operation in #Slavyansk, acc to the city’s People’s mayor
Expect a proper Russian invasion any minute...


You have been parroting this line for a long time now, something to support it now or just more feramongering?



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 03:36 AM
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originally posted by: Yusomad

originally posted by: ProfessorT

@PaulaSlier_RT: 3 members of the self-defense forces & 2 civilians have died during the military operation in #Slavyansk, acc to the city’s People’s mayor
Expect a proper Russian invasion any minute...


You have been parroting this line for a long time now, something to support it now or just more feramongering?
Instead of trolling try and add something to the thread. Thanks.

@PierreCrom: ProRus military convoy of 4 armored vehicles and 30/40 soldiers heading north #sloviansk #ukraine #donbass

edit on 4-5-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 04:38 AM
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RT started counting the dead in E Ukraine:

PaulaSlier_RT @PaulaSlier_RT
Estimates say 69 ppl have died since the beginning of #Kiev's military action in #Ukraine.#Odessa:46,#Slavyansk:12,#Kramatorsk:10,#Lugansk:1


Possibly related to the 200 dead figure that was supposed to be the trigger of the Russia peacekeeping action ?

LE: The count seems to be consistent with the number of dead reported by Russian media from the side of the separatists/Russian supporters and doesn't seem to include those that died as a result of their actions. Seems to be a pretty one-sided count...
edit on Sun0000003112314 by Dutzy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 04:49 AM
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tvrain.ru has an article related to the establishment of new ferry crossings and pontoon crossings to be established by the Russian Ministry of Defense between Crimea and mainland Russia, Stavropol, due to the larege number of "tourists" that cross from the mainland to Crimea:
tvrain.ru...


Russian engineering troops started organizing additional ferry service between the ports of the "Caucasus" (city Temruk ) and "Crimea" (Kerch) . On this Sunday, May 4, the ITAR- TASS referring to the press service of the management information and the Russian Defense Ministry .

Now experts perform measurements of the width , depth and flow rate of the Kerch Strait where will ferry and explore the coastline and equipment driveways and crossovers . By engineering exploration ground near the shoreline brought military divers .

In the near future , engineers will begin unloading pontoon crossing equipment arrived on the Black Sea coast with Vladimir, Rostov and Volgograd regions .

The Defense Ministry expects that the new crossing will significantly improve transport and freight to the Crimea in the holiday season . Its composition will involve four ferries , each capable of heavy vehicles pass six or more than 20 cars. Construction time crossing the Office did not say.

Now operating a ferry across the Kerch Strait from May 1 until the end of the holiday season refocused only for passenger transport . Before the May holidays port "Caucasus" in Stavropol , which was the main crossing point of Russians in Crimea, no longer cope with the influx of tourists. Executive ferry to Crimea



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 04:53 AM
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a reply to: Dutzy

A bridge is in the process as well....

History... what happens when we ignore it...

Now Kremlin says it will build bridge first planned by HITLER to link Russia direct to its naval base in Crimea and bypass Ukraine


Nazi plans to build a bridge linking the Crimean region of Ukraine to Russia look set to be revived after Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev created a company to take on the project.

The proposed bridge would span the the Strait of Kerch between the Chushka Spit in Russia and the Kerch Peninsula in Ukraine, giving Russia one of only three major entrance points to the strategic Crimean peninsula - the others being the M17 and M18 motorways from mainland Ukraine.

The idea for a bridge linking the countries was originally conceived by German architect Albert Speer during the Second World War in the hope it would aid the German invasion of the North Caucasus.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...# ixzz30jt8xSRm
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 04:54 AM
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And Russian media quotes Russian media on Lviv:

PaulaSlier_RT @PaulaSlier_RT
#Lvov (Western #Ukraine):Unidentified ppl reportedly torched the roof of the Russian Center acc. to the Russian media



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 05:01 AM
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With regards to the efficiency of the ATO in E Ukraine, how possible or less possible could this be:

Ukraine Reporter @StateOfUkraine
Source: goal of #Ukraine's anti-terror operation was to halt separatist momentum. Defeating them completely unrealistic in very short term


Because when one talks about an anti-terror op, you would expect for those cities to be thoroughly cleansed of armed separatists, whereas we only see skirmishes and the Ukr forces capturing firstly the local and regional TV towers...



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 05:11 AM
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Victims of the Nazi Right Sector massacre in Odessa.

No uniforms, no weapons, no terrorists, just men and women that were burned alive.

Warning, 18+.

smi2.mirtesen.ru...


BERLIN, Germany - Dozens of specialists from the US Central Intelligence Agency and Federal Bureau of Investigation are advising the Ukrainian government, a German newspaper reported Sunday, May 4.

Citing unnamed German security sources, Bild am Sonntag said the CIA and FBI agents were helping Kiev end the rebellion in the east of Ukraine and set up a functioning security structure.


www.rappler.com...


edit on 4-5-2014 by renden because: (no reason given)



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