Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: dragonridr

really thought people would understand this major clue,,so i will make it more obvious,

"The Siege of Sevastopol"

Britian won that,,,so if Mr Putin and Mr. Medeved want "Sevastopol",it is up too,

BRITIAN and its reigning Monarch.

Them's the Rule's.

Although i here Harry likes too be History buff, he should at least know that,,losing the world cup too Russia,, was just business,,not personal.

Maybe the Queen could use the Cash,, i hear they canceled Christmas last year for the staff.

Me.

By the way the reason both sides are trying to put a spin on this fire is neither side wants to admit who caused it. The true murderers werent right sector it wasnt Russian operatives we saw how it was yet both sides try to spin the news. Here is your killers now problem is will anything be done? I doubt it look who they would try to bring to trial.

twitter.com...

Issues posting response.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: cosmonova

There using footage from crimea trying to pass it off as occurring now. At least man up and admit the video is propaganda ive admitted when i make a mistake and wrong and call it out for being propaganda. PS maybe you should actually watch the video even youll see footage weve seen before from crimea. Its called stock footage the video is hoping you wouldnt notice.

And I am calling you a liar right now. There is no footage from Crimea in this movie. It is all related to South East from the end of March until now, current events. If you prove me wrong I will apologize. Your turn, prove you are not lying.
Where exactly is footage from Crimea.
Also pay attention at 13:40 it shows how they get RPGs.

Take my bet ill show you where they used stock footage from Crimea if i get to choose what icon you have to post with if your confident that they didnt use Crimean footage and pass it off as eastern Ukraine you have nothing to fear do you??

No bets, no games. Prove you are not a liar, should not be hard as you sound confident. Just say the time where Crimea footage is in the film, it is that easy. Last offer to restore a bit of credibility.

And I am calling you a liar right now. There is no footage from Crimea in this movie. It is all related to South East from the end of March until now, current events. If you prove me wrong I will apologize. Your turn, prove you are not lying.
Where exactly is footage from Crimea.

One question for ya mate. Why are you only calling out Russian and RT propoganda??? If you are as logical as you are trying to make yourself out to be....then surely you see the propoganda coming from the other side as well?? If you answer no, I know all I need to know about that you and your intent.

Good God one of those idiotic ass respond or else challenges - Get over it -

I post the information the Pro Russian side ignores, just as they post information the Pro Kiev side ignores. As I have stated, and you obviously missed, I also post Russian information. It depends on what is occurring and the information in question. As an example, to understand Russian mindset and goals all one needs to do is read articles put out by Russian media. Since Russia does not allow for independent media / critical media, Russian motives often times comes out in their press.

Russian media is also the worst for using fake information with regards to Crimea / Ukraine. When it was about Crimea, they constantly used protest footage from Kiev and portrayed it as anti Russian protests all across Ukraine. They are now doing that, using Crimea footage, and passing it off as incidents in south / East Ukraine.

The very reason I refuse to take Russia at its word is most likely the very reason you and others refuse to take Kiev or the west at its word.

Please explain, in your world of logic, why Pro Russian forces would call out Russian propaganda?

If you fail to answer we will know all we need to know about that you and your intent - See how idiotic that statement sounds? Please choose something else or at least stop trying to assume you know someone else's position by ignoring their posts or failing to read them in their entirety.

I am all for exposing propoganda - I have watched you for pages and pages only expose propoganda on one side and thus in a very biased manner....

What part of Pro Russian exposing pro propaganda are we not understanding? By all means though, what propaganda have I failed to call out?
You made the statement, a few times now - Support it specifically please.

I fail to see how tweets about mourning are propoganda by the way. It is simply news. I see stuff about vigils here in America for various stuff every single night. Guess its all propoganda.....Silly Russian rebels deserved to get firebombed eh?

Because in the US we have something that allows me to speak my mind to authority, regardless of where that authority is located on the planet. In this case, Russia has been caught lying time and again about its actions in Ukraine. I am calling them out on it.

What's sad is your attack on me and my comments/position while you ignore the comment from a Pro Russian who claims an invasion of Ukraine never occurred and this entire thread should be 404'd.

Do you support his comment or do you agree with it and just refuse to not comment on it?
Should I take your refusal to comment on it as tacit approval and support of it?

See what happens when you read into a failure of action?
Just as the poster did with me accusing Russian of using the situation in Odessa for propaganda purposes. What was sad about that is how the person completely missed the point and instead of asking for clarification, accused me of holding a position I don't.

To me it says the person does not understand propaganda or how its used and how its used effectively. That article provided a perfect example and yet it was ignored by Pro Russians who instead concentrated on misrepresenting my position and forcing me to defend myself while they laugh because they got what they wanted - the removal of facts from the page by distracting the readers, forcing BS comments, which buries the facts under even more pages of BS.

Please tell me you have not missed that tactic...

Btw, maybe Russia is threatening action because of recent events JUST LIKE the EU and US were threatening actions after the old (non western approved) government killed civillians. Which is exactly what is happening now in the East, civillians being killed. But they are rebels, so all is well. Right mate?

No mate its not. Its an effort on your part to take examples from another situation with completely different underlying issues and trying to insert them into this exchange in hopes people who are not familiar comes to a wrong conclusion. Just as people have failed to try and make comparisons between Ukraine and Yugoslavia.

Since you seem to support military action against governments using aircraift on its own people then you support foreign military intervention in Syria right?
What about Sudan / South Sudan?
Russia and its 2 invasions of Chechnya?
The recent actions Russian forces took against "militants" in Dagestan?

There are 3 sides to every story -
The A Side
The B Side
and the C side, which is the truth and is somewhere in the middle of A and B.

The purpose of threads like this should be for those who want the truth to work together to filter thru the BS and to locate kernels of truth in hopes the truth is actually found.

It should not be about what time people log in and post or how many posters created accounts and only participate in this forum. Sadly, it becomes this option because people are more concerned with pushing a lie than finding the truth.

now, can we get back to updates and trying to locate kernels of truth in hopes they are found in time before a full blown regional war breaks out and we suffer even more loss of life?

Since it has been lost on some, the reason for the tewwets in posts like this is to try and keep the thread somewhat on topic.

RT ‏@RT_com · 3m
‘Why do they hate us so much?’ Southeast #Ukraine seeks to understand new regime on.rt.com...

for it being a "war zone" and with some many "Ethnic Russians" under attack I find it interesting how they could seek out people for this. Secondly, it seems to contradict other polls showing people in those areas not wanting to be a part of Russia. Something Russia downplays since it undermines one of the justifications they used to invade Ukraine.

English EuroMaidan ‏@EuroMaidanEN · 34m
Slovyansk is Ukraine! Donetsk is Ukraine!
.. fb.me...

UN News Centre ‏@UN_News_Centre · 36m
#Ukraine: #UNSG welcomes release of #OSCE military observers, urges calm as violence spreads to Odessa ow.ly...

I think I got the post to go correctly. any issues / questions just ask.

originally posted by: darkorange
Yes. his objective is to deliver the :truth: R. Murdoch. the minister of propaganda. How many news outlets this guy allowed to own?

Is it now? where did I state that is my intent?
Secondly do you really want to open the Pandora's box of media ownership when comparing ownership to Russian media / Russian state media?

In my eyes, Obama doing pretty good job so far. Remember America, your first line of defence is your president.

cheers)

cheers)

The truth is the first line of defense.
The President acts when the truth fails.
Just as Obama has done.... Just as Putin has done.

a reply to: cosmonova

It would be so nice when Putin goes after these Oligarchs and takes away their loot from the people and finds a justful way to redistribute wealth across the board.

Only then free market economics will truly take hold and new industries will find investments and provide diversification to the Russian economy from oil and gas reliance.

Oligarchs can be given $100M each and sent away in exile to where ever they want. $100M is not bad a change in pocket to live peacefully anywhere.

a reply to: BobAthome

If asked of the people in the pictures, they can offer the truth cant they?

When those photos are used in a manner not supported by the actions in the picture, cant a different story be told?

Is it not up to the person being asked to support one side or the other to try and find the facts behind the photos before accepting them as something else?

Is it not the responsibility of the person relating the information to be truthful in their approach?
If the person is discovered to be something they are not, should they still be trusted?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Xcathdra


As i said im seeing more and more attacks on Ukrainian oligarchs. Even the govenor Vladimir Nemirovsky of Odessa Region in Odessa is a steel magnet. And Pro Russians are calling for his resignation. They burn the bank owned by another i mentioned earlier Kolomoysky having his main office torched for his company. Then Kerns was shot and almost killed while jogging. Behind the scenes we have a private war going on against Ukrainian oligarchs not to mention anotheris ahead in the polls likely to be next president.

And why not !! What happened in 1990s is as follows:

Former Soviet Union split apart and threw away state ownership of assets in one evening.

State assets were put on sale.

General population had no money.

Jews had contacts with Jewish bankers overseas.

They quickly arranged foreign loans and bribed their way to buy state assets

State assets brought at throw away prices like for dime on a dollar

As economies gained stability somewhat these assets exploded in prices

Soon there were billionaires propping up everywhere

Showing the value of these assets, they were able to get more loans

Using these "new" loans they bought other industries and became...............

OLIGARCHS !!!!!!!!!!

Most of these oligarch are Jewish as they had access to funds through global Jewish cabal i.e. mafia like bankers

ps: I have nothing against the Jews but everything against those Jews who looted Russia in 1990s.

ps2: Once Ukraine is settles, Putin should take these companies from the Oligarchs and find a more fair way to redistribute assets to general people. Then real free market economics will take place.

great 2 parts documentary on rise and fall of oligarchs in Russia, well worth watching. Also explain what Russia went through after fall of Soviet Union.

part 1

part 2

This definitely opens up certain things i hadnt considered until now as i mentioned i see the attacks on the oligarchs in Ukraine but im thinking this goes even deeper into the cause of the crises. Were dealing with a war for hearts and minds from Russian oligarchs and Ukrainian ones. billionaires battling with peoples lives nothing new there i guess.

It is not just about oligarchs but western powers meddling as well in Russia in that period and suffering of ordinary people caught in the moment. If you watch this you might understand why is Putin so popular in Russia and what he did for Russia since then. From collapse and chaos back to 8th economy in the world, all that in only 15 years.
Yeah ,I know. Propaganda.
Where I see Ukraine before all these current events is where Russia was in 90', bit less tragic though.
Oligarchs, corruption, economy in bad shape...nothing has changed in Ukraine for last 15 years.

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: cosmonova

There using footage from crimea trying to pass it off as occurring now. At least man up and admit the video is propaganda ive admitted when i make a mistake and wrong and call it out for being propaganda. PS maybe you should actually watch the video even youll see footage weve seen before from crimea. Its called stock footage the video is hoping you wouldnt notice.

And I am calling you a liar right now. There is no footage from Crimea in this movie. It is all related to South East from the end of March until now, current events. If you prove me wrong I will apologize. Your turn, prove you are not lying.
Where exactly is footage from Crimea.
Also pay attention at 13:40 it shows how they get RPGs.

Take my bet ill show you where they used stock footage from Crimea if i get to choose what icon you have to post with if your confident that they didnt use Crimean footage and pass it off as eastern Ukraine you have nothing to fear do you??

No bets, no games. Prove you are not a liar, should not be hard as you sound confident. Just say the time where Crimea footage is in the film, it is that easy. Last offer to restore a bit of credibility.

And I am calling you a liar right now. There is no footage from Crimea in this movie. It is all related to South East from the end of March until now, current events. If you prove me wrong I will apologize. Your turn, prove you are not lying.
Where exactly is footage from Crimea.

Nice try watch the video my credibility is fine your the one posting videos claiming its from eastern Ukraine when they are using video of the Crimean s confiscating weapons off a Ukrainian military vehicle as eastern Ukraine. In fact there was an interview involved with that footage that was conveniently left out.As i said you have two choices youcan either man up and say well yeah that video i posted is a lie or continue to defend it however im sure others recognize the footage as well it was a rather big deal. Crimeans claimed they were stopping arms shipments to Ukrainian soldiers and forced them to unload the entire vehicle right there at the road side.

Now as i said if your confident take my bet id love to be able to pick your icon for say 30 days same holds true if im wrong you can pick mine take the bet. Just remeber when im wrong i admit it like of done in this thread and even showed proof of why i was wrong. i have yet to see you do the same.

originally posted by: victor7

Oligarchs can be given $100M each and sent away in exile to where ever they want. $100M is not bad a change in pocket to live peacefully anywhere.

Uhm... did you just really write this and do you really believe it?

You want to go after oligarchs and "punish" them by giving them 100 million and leaving them alone somewhere?

How is that money even there's if we are to subscribe to your train of thought?
If you are taking their money you are insinuating it was illegally obtained, yet you support rewarding those same people you accuse of illegally obtaining wealth and further it by suggesting a life long vacation with no accountability for their crimes?

Is that what you are suggesting?

a reply to: BobAthome

Your very strange but i like that.

a reply to: cosmonova

The very Oligarchs in Ukraine they want to go after are the very Oligarchs they ignored when Yanukovych was on their payroll.

The same Oligarchs who supported Putin.

Washington Post ‏@washingtonpost · 42s
This map shows how Russia is deploying military assets near border with Ukraine wapo.st...

ZaRdOz420WPN ‏@ZaRdOz420WPN · 3m
40 people dead in #Odessa. Many choked to death on smoke or killed when jumping to escape fire reut.rs... pic.twitter.com/6MuuHTyMX9

a reply to: Xcathdra

quote "If the person is discovered to be something they are not, should they still be trusted? "

trust in GOD.
all others pay or buy or need somthing.

We are all each and everyone of us,, needy,,are we not?

Trust in God.

⚔rapidnewstweets©⚔ ‏@juergen_p · 15h
Pro-Ukrainian volunteers track injured and detained in Odesa, fear prosecution by pro-Russian activists

KYIV Post: Eyewitnesses to Odessa carnage: Pro-Russian side, armed for war, started shooting

Eyewitnesses to the carnage that killed at least 46 people in Odessa, including 38 in an arson fire, say that many of the pro-Russian separatists were armed with automatic rifles and pistols and started shooting at an unarmed, pro-Ukraine rally that preceded a football game.

Zoya Kazandzhy, a journalist and local activist, said that police did not help, so citizens defended themselves from the attack.

“Citizens organized quickly themselves and that’s the only thing that helped us yesterday, because police were helpless,” Kazandzhy says, referring to the bloody standoff between local soccer fans who marched in the city center and pro-Russian activists that started at 3 p.m. and ended overnight on May 2-3.

“The soccer fans were unarmed – they were marching with Ukrainian flags, while the opposite side appeared fully geared as if they came for war,” Kazandzhy said, who witnessed the events, saying the pro-Russian camp had pistols, clubs and shields and started firing on the crowd.

Of the 46 deaths, eight took place in clashes between Kremlin-backed vigilantes and the pro-Ukrainian crowd while the rest took place after an arson fire set in the trade unions house where the pro-Russian crowd fled.

How the fire started is under investigation as well as who instigated the violence. Authorities reported that 15 of the dead were Russian citizens and another five killed were from Moldova's Kremlin-backed breakaway region of Transnistria.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: cosmonova

It would be so nice when Putin goes after these Oligarchs and takes away their loot from the people and finds a justful way to redistribute wealth across the board.

Only then free market economics will truly take hold and new industries will find investments and provide diversification to the Russian economy from oil and gas reliance.

Oligarchs can be given $100M each and sent away in exile to where ever they want. $100M is not bad a change in pocket to live peacefully anywhere.

the funny thing, late Boris Berezovsky was one of those oligarchs taking advantage of collapse of Soviet Union.
He thought he can have Putin under his hand after first Putin's election so he invested in promoting Putin's election campaign.
When Putin came in power, war against oligarchs at the time started. Took them all by surprise.
Berezovsky ended in exile in London until his death. Just before he died, he sent a letter to Putin about his wish to come back home. I believe Putin never replied. If you have time check those 2 parts I posted. It is a great documentary. Don't want to derail much more this thread about Ukraine.

maybe brush off the old railways lines, that run too the Camps.

yup there still there u know,,


the lines,, not the camps.



yet.