Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh give me a break Mr "Tweetmaster" . You've been pushing this Anti-Russian crap for how many pages now? Your position is painfully clear to everyone. Anything anti-Russian is gospel, written in stone, cold hard fact. Everything else is Russian propaganda. Tell me how RT reporting that Crimea is in mourning is propaganda. Go on, explain it to me. What if FOX reported that Crimea was in mourning? What would your response be? The fact is that 38 people were trapped in a building and consequently murdered by thugs, while the police stood by and watched. Is this the type of Ukraine government you're rooting for? If so then you're no better than they are.

a reply to: Xcathdra


As i said im seeing more and more attacks on Ukrainian oligarchs. Even the govenor Vladimir Nemirovsky of Odessa Region in Odessa is a steel magnet. And Pro Russians are calling for his resignation. They burn the bank owned by another i mentioned earlier Kolomoysky having his main office torched for his company. Then Kerns was shot and almost killed while jogging. Behind the scenes we have a private war going on against Ukrainian oligarchs not to mention anotheris ahead in the polls likely to be next president.

be carefull for what is wished for,,

":for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the Lord of hosts."


Only in this day and age is this statement possable,,militarily that is,,
u know with fire.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Xcathdra


As i said im seeing more and more attacks on Ukrainian oligarchs. Even the govenor Vladimir Nemirovsky of Odessa Region in Odessa is a steel magnet. And Pro Russians are calling for his resignation. They burn the bank owned by another i mentioned earlier Kolomoysky having his main office torched for his company. Then Kerns was shot and almost killed while jogging. Behind the scenes we have a private war going on against Ukrainian oligarchs not to mention anotheris ahead in the polls likely to be next president.

And why not !! What happened in 1990s is as follows:

Former Soviet Union split apart and threw away state ownership of assets in one evening.

State assets were put on sale.

General population had no money.

Jews had contacts with Jewish bankers overseas.

They quickly arranged foreign loans and bribed their way to buy state assets

State assets brought at throw away prices like for dime on a dollar

As economies gained stability somewhat these assets exploded in prices

Soon there were billionaires propping up everywhere

Showing the value of these assets, they were able to get more loans

Using these "new" loans they bought other industries and became...............

OLIGARCHS !!!!!!!!!!

Most of these oligarch are Jewish as they had access to funds through global Jewish cabal i.e. mafia like bankers

ps: I have nothing against the Jews but everything against those Jews who looted Russia in 1990s.

ps2: Once Ukraine is settles, Putin should take these companies from the Oligarchs and find a more fair way to redistribute assets to general people. Then real free market economics will take place.

a reply to: dragonridr

Sounds,,,worse than St. Petersburg,,, in the 30's.

or the United Kingdom in the "Great Game"
The Siege of Sevastopol lasted from September 1854 until September 1855, during the Crimean War. The allies (French, Ottoman, and British) landed at Eupatoria on 14 September 1854, intending to make a triumphal march to Sevastopol, the capital of the Crimea, with 50,000 men. The 56-kilometre (35 mi) traverse took a year of fighting against the Russians.





but thankfully those days are over.

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: Xcathdra

an arab *futurist female..


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would love to make reply to your clever commentary but unfortunately I cannot make out your English. What is your first language?

a reply to: Flatcoat

Well for starters if you understood the stated intent of the thread you would have noticed it states updates. Had you read a few pages back where the mods clarified the position of this thread as hourly updates, you would know.

Secondly, reporting on deaths is tragic. Reporting on deaths while sowing the underline intent of how those deaths occurred, using that information in a manner that is consistent with inciting even more aggression towards Kiev is in fact propaganda. It misrepresents the facts surrounding those deaths and spins the story in a manner that walks the reader do a single conclusion - Kiev bad and Moscow good.

As for your misinformed comment about Russia media if may have noticed if you read my posts I use Russian sources. Since you also missed the fact I have also asked people to post links to their Russian sources so I can read it myself in addition I have used Russian media sources.

Something I don't see to often on the other side of the fence.

As for Russia lying -
To date they have consistently changed every single reason for their involvement inside Ukraine. They have consistently lied about Russian actions inside Ukraine, including the occupied territory of Crimea. As I have stated with regards to US actions in other countries, I have stated the same issues I have here.

Since we seem to have a large group of individuals who push the Russian side there is absolutely nothing wrong with presenting the information from the side they don't agree with. After all, how would that information come to light if no on posted it?

Please explain how into Russian media / information would be posted if Pro Russian people aren't going to post it? Based on the facts I tend to support to anti Russian side, however I SO NOT support fascists / Neo Nazi / Communist etc political groups. With that said, often times in a Democracy people come to power who are not liked or wanted, something Russia would know absolutely nothing about.

What we do know is 38 people were trapped in a building being used by Pro Russian forces and that we do NOT know who started the fire or why those 38 people were in the building in the first place? Its a crime that should be investigated properly and completely, even more so since the invocation of Putin in using human shields against Pro Kiev forces.

So let me ask you -
Do you support the idea that the crime should be thoroughly investigated PROPERLY and independent of external pressure from Russia / Pro Russian / Pro Kiev authorities but using Ukraine law?

Would you be open to UN, OSCE or some other impartial entity being granted status to investigate / interview and recommend charges? Or allow the ICC to adjudicate the incident?

Or are you one of those who just assume it is what it is and allow a lynching?

Automatically assuming / insinuating one party is responsible without an investigation?

Speaking of bias and you jumping to a conclusion, like your comment about me and twitter updates, speaks volumes.

By the way I don't see your solution for this mess, just accusations.

Do you think Russian involvement in Ukraine and its invasion / annexation / occupation of Crimea as being lawful?
If so, based on?

originally posted by: BobAthome
be carefull for what is wished for,,

":for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the Lord of hosts."


Only in this day and age is this statement possable,,militarily that is,,
u know with fire.

Care to define the passage with you know..... specifics?

originally posted by: victor7
And why not !! What happened in 1990s is as follows:

Former Soviet Union split apart and threw away state ownership of assets in one evening.

That can happen when your nation is composed of occupied countries from the end of WWII.

originally posted by: victor7
State assets were put on sale.

As they should be.

originally posted by: victor7
General population had no money.

Refer back to occupied nation by a foreign power.

originally posted by: victor7
Jews had contacts with Jewish bankers overseas.

For someone who likes to accuse other of being Pro Nazi you sure as hell invoke Jew a lot.

why?

and what does Jewish people speaking to Jewish people who are bankers have to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union?

originally posted by: victor7
They quickly arranged foreign loans and bribed their way to buy state assets

Im sorry are you referring to the west or what the Soviet government did when they occupied these nations?

originally posted by: victor7
State assets brought at throw away prices like for dime on a dollar

Have you seen the quality of former Soviet goods? A dime and dollar would be generous.

originally posted by: victor7
As economies gained stability somewhat these assets exploded in prices

As will happen when sovereignty is restored and the civilians become civilians with national pride instead of an occupied people whose only purpose was to support the Supreme Soviet.

originally posted by: victor7
Soon there were billionaires propping up everywhere

And those who were once billionaires, who attained that status during the Soviet occupation, kept their position and money, lost their position and kept their money, and lost both, was the victim of what they themselves created.


Please explain to us how people under a communist style government attain personal wealth and affects when communism itself is based on the principle of equal work equal pay?

Or are you asserting that concept of communism was nothing more than a lie and more along the lines of the book animal farm?

originally posted by: victor7
Showing the value of these assets, they were able to get more loans

Using these "new" loans they bought other industries and became...............

OLIGARCHS !!!!!!!!!!

And members of the communist party and now members of Putin's political party. By the way those same Oligarchs supported Yanukovych, up to the point he was lawfully impeached from office.

originally posted by: victor7
Most of these oligarch are Jewish as they had access to funds through global Jewish cabal i.e. mafia like bankers

Back to the invocation of the Jews again....

originally posted by: victor7
ps: I have nothing against the Jews but everything against those Jews who looted Russia in 1990s.

You are anti-Semitic and your posts support that accusation. It always seems to come back to the Jews being at fault. A mindset and position also held...

props for calling anyone supporting Kiev Nazis while actually holding some of the top Nazi beliefs used to start WWII.

originally posted by: victor7
ps2: Once Ukraine is settles, Putin should take these companies from the Oligarchs and find a more fair way to redistribute assets to general people. Then real free market economics will take place.

Interesting that you once again think Putin should fix something instead of the Ukrainian people.

Please don't lecture about free market economics since you have demonstrated time and again, outside and in this thread, that you do not understand what they are or how they work.

Hint - The Soviet manner of economics failed, resulting in the collapse of the Soviet Union. It collapsed for a reason and should not be reintroduced. To do so would be nothing more than "Russia" using "Soviet" failures to repeat history.


As I stated, propaganda -

RT ‏@RT_com · 8m
Moscow: #Kiev and western sponsors directly responsible for bloodshed in E.Ukraine on.rt.com...

If Russia claims they don't control these pro Russian forces in the south and east, then why are they threatening to invade Ukraine if Ukraine uses force to remove them?

The Torn Curtain ‏@TornCurtain1991 · 10h
news.yahoo.com... … Lavrov presses Kerry to help stop #Ukraine assault. World condemns Russia for invasion of Ukraine #UnitedForUkraine

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: Xcathdra

an arab *futurist female..


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would love to make reply to your clever commentary but unfortunately I cannot make out your English. What is your first language?

in this case I think it was a translation error and not an attempt to change the manner of the posted information. He posted 2 follow ups to my response that I missed while doing other responses. He clarified the mistake several times and I truly don't believe it was an intentional act.

The start of something more ominous?

RT ‏@RT_com · 3m
Gas pipe catches fire in #Odessa on.rt.com...

Sunday, May 4

02:37 GMT:

A gas pipe has caught fire in central Odessa, UNN news agency reports, citing local media. Unconfirmed reports suggest it was set on fire intentionally. The blaze was extinguished by fire fighters who arrived at the scene.

a reply to: Xcathdra

One question for ya mate. Why are you only calling out Russian and RT propoganda??? If you are as logical as you are trying to make yourself out to be....then surely you see the propoganda coming from the other side as well?? If you answer no, I know all I need to know about that you and your intent.


I am all for exposing propoganda - I have watched you for pages and pages only expose propoganda on one side and thus in a very biased manner....

I fail to see how tweets about mourning are propoganda by the way. It is simply news. I see stuff about vigils here in America for various stuff every single night. Guess its all propoganda.....Silly Russian rebels deserved to get firebombed eh?

Btw, maybe Russia is threatening action because of recent events JUST LIKE the EU and US were threatening actions after the old (non western approved) government killed civillians. Which is exactly what is happening now in the East, civillians being killed. But they are rebels, so all is well. Right mate?

Yanukovych,,, i thought that name was familiar,,

www.ctvnews.ca...


Mike Blanchfield, The Canadian Press
Published Friday, February 28, 2014 9:47PM EST

OTTAWA -- As Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird visited Kyiv on Friday, the federal New Democrats wanted to know why Canada exported more than $80,000 worth weapons to Ukraine during the rule of Viktor Yanukovich.




Ukraine's Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk meets with Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs John Baird in Kiev, Ukraine, Friday, Feb. 28, 2014. (AP / Andrew Kravchenko)


tsk , tsk,, shame, shame oh Canada, Arms/Weapons Sales?? wow.

shame

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh give me a break Mr "Tweetmaster" . You've been pushing this Anti-Russian crap for how many pages now? Your position is painfully clear to everyone. Anything anti-Russian is gospel, written in stone, cold hard fact. Everything else is Russian propaganda. Tell me how RT reporting that Crimea is in mourning is propaganda. Go on, explain it to me. What if FOX reported that Crimea was in mourning? What would your response be? The fact is that 38 people were trapped in a building and consequently murdered by thugs, while the police stood by and watched. Is this the type of Ukraine government you're rooting for? If so then you're no better than they are.

Yes. his objective is to deliver the :truth: R. Murdoch. the minister of propaganda. How many news outlets this guy allowed to own?

In my eyes, Obama doing pretty good job so far. Remember America, your first line of defence is your president.


cheers)


cheers)

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Xcathdra


As i said im seeing more and more attacks on Ukrainian oligarchs. Even the govenor Vladimir Nemirovsky of Odessa Region in Odessa is a steel magnet. And Pro Russians are calling for his resignation. They burn the bank owned by another i mentioned earlier Kolomoysky having his main office torched for his company. Then Kerns was shot and almost killed while jogging. Behind the scenes we have a private war going on against Ukrainian oligarchs not to mention anotheris ahead in the polls likely to be next president.

And why not !! What happened in 1990s is as follows:

Former Soviet Union split apart and threw away state ownership of assets in one evening.

State assets were put on sale.

General population had no money.

Jews had contacts with Jewish bankers overseas.

They quickly arranged foreign loans and bribed their way to buy state assets

State assets brought at throw away prices like for dime on a dollar

As economies gained stability somewhat these assets exploded in prices

Soon there were billionaires propping up everywhere

Showing the value of these assets, they were able to get more loans

Using these "new" loans they bought other industries and became...............

OLIGARCHS !!!!!!!!!!

Most of these oligarch are Jewish as they had access to funds through global Jewish cabal i.e. mafia like bankers

ps: I have nothing against the Jews but everything against those Jews who looted Russia in 1990s.

ps2: Once Ukraine is settles, Putin should take these companies from the Oligarchs and find a more fair way to redistribute assets to general people. Then real free market economics will take place.

great 2 parts documentary on rise and fall of oligarchs in Russia, well worth watching. Also explain what Russia went through after fall of Soviet Union.

part 1


part 2

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: cosmonova

There using footage from crimea trying to pass it off as occurring now. At least man up and admit the video is propaganda ive admitted when i make a mistake and wrong and call it out for being propaganda. PS maybe you should actually watch the video even youll see footage weve seen before from crimea. Its called stock footage the video is hoping you wouldnt notice.

And I am calling you a liar right now. There is no footage from Crimea in this movie. It is all related to South East from the end of March until now, current events. If you prove me wrong I will apologize. Your turn, prove you are not lying.
Where exactly is footage from Crimea.
Also pay attention at 13:40 it shows how they get RPGs.

Take my bet ill show you where they used stock footage from Crimea if i get to choose what icon you have to post with if your confident that they didnt use Crimean footage and pass it off as eastern Ukraine you have nothing to fear do you??

originally posted by: darkorange

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh give me a break Mr "Tweetmaster" . You've been pushing this Anti-Russian crap for how many pages now? Your position is painfully clear to everyone. Anything anti-Russian is gospel, written in stone, cold hard fact. Everything else is Russian propaganda. Tell me how RT reporting that Crimea is in mourning is propaganda. Go on, explain it to me. What if FOX reported that Crimea was in mourning? What would your response be? The fact is that 38 people were trapped in a building and consequently murdered by thugs, while the police stood by and watched. Is this the type of Ukraine government you're rooting for? If so then you're no better than they are.

Yes. his objective is to deliver the :truth: R. Murdoch. the minister of propaganda. How many news outlets this guy allowed to own?

In my eyes, Obama doing pretty good job so far. Remember America, your first line of defence is your president.


cheers)


cheers)

Well if you mean doing a good job at avoiding Ukraine id agree hes not seriously involving himself in the Ukraine crises. If he were hell hed fly to Moscow and sit down with Putin or the very least Kerry would be there now. Hes hiding from the issue trying to keep a low profile and let Angela Merkel handle it. Not that i entirely disagree with this strategy but dammit than say so put her in charge and stop pretending.

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Xcathdra


As i said im seeing more and more attacks on Ukrainian oligarchs. Even the govenor Vladimir Nemirovsky of Odessa Region in Odessa is a steel magnet. And Pro Russians are calling for his resignation. They burn the bank owned by another i mentioned earlier Kolomoysky having his main office torched for his company. Then Kerns was shot and almost killed while jogging. Behind the scenes we have a private war going on against Ukrainian oligarchs not to mention anotheris ahead in the polls likely to be next president.

And why not !! What happened in 1990s is as follows:

Former Soviet Union split apart and threw away state ownership of assets in one evening.

State assets were put on sale.

General population had no money.

Jews had contacts with Jewish bankers overseas.

They quickly arranged foreign loans and bribed their way to buy state assets

State assets brought at throw away prices like for dime on a dollar

As economies gained stability somewhat these assets exploded in prices

Soon there were billionaires propping up everywhere

Showing the value of these assets, they were able to get more loans

Using these "new" loans they bought other industries and became...............

OLIGARCHS !!!!!!!!!!

Most of these oligarch are Jewish as they had access to funds through global Jewish cabal i.e. mafia like bankers

ps: I have nothing against the Jews but everything against those Jews who looted Russia in 1990s.

ps2: Once Ukraine is settles, Putin should take these companies from the Oligarchs and find a more fair way to redistribute assets to general people. Then real free market economics will take place.

great 2 parts documentary on rise and fall of oligarchs in Russia, well worth watching. Also explain what Russia went through after fall of Soviet Union.

part 1

part 2

This definitely opens up certain things i hadnt considered until now as i mentioned i see the attacks on the oligarchs in Ukraine but im thinking this goes even deeper into the cause of the crises. Were dealing with a war for hearts and minds from Russian oligarchs and Ukrainian ones. billionaires battling with peoples lives nothing new there i guess.