Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Not surprising there is nothing in your post / response post to support your initial accusations. If you had proof, it would be in your second post - yet nothing is there. Gee I wonder why.

Since I have only one account your accusation is wrong that the other side does it.
Since you cant possibly support your accusation and at the same time you try to dismiss the counter observation, you try to disassociate yourself with the comment by trying to put it back on those you accuse of working shifts.

What is not right is constantly making new accounts in an effort to post BS Russian Propaganda in a thread on Russia invading Ukraine.
What is not right is making remarks towards those who have long established posting histories and have been confirmed as real people.
What is not right is making an uneducated remark that drags the thread off track, as you have demonstrated.

My work schedule rotates, both in days and hours. Something you would know nothing about, thereby making your comment wrong and undermining your post intent.

Do you have anything on topic?

Voices of Ukraine - Dmitry Tymchuk: Events in Odesa, May 2, 2014

According to Information Resistance, yesterday’s provocations in Odesa, which caused numerous casualties, were the result of an operation conducted and coordinated by Russia.

From the beginning of March until the end of April 2014, we noted the arrival of Russian Armed Forces units and those of the Main Intelligence Directorate [GRU of the General Staff of Russian Armed Forces], as well as representatives of Russian Cossacks and ultranationalist organizations on the territory of Transnistria.

Since mid-April, our sources in the Republic of Moldova recorded the arrival of Russian groups with young athletic men in Chisinau, departing further into the territory of Transnistria. They were accompanied by Russian FSB operatives.

As a result, by the beginning of May, about 1,700 Russian servicemen and about 2,200 representatives of various Russian organizations (mostly, the Cossacks) coordinated by the FSB were located in Transnistria. Of the total number of Russian troops, about 800 people are represented by GRU units of the General Staff.

We relayed this information during the months of March and April in the Information Resistance reports.

According to our data, starting from the end of April, subversive and reconnaissance groups of Russian Spetsnaz and groups of instigators deployed to the territory of Ukraine, were tasked to destabilize the situation in southern Ukraine in conjunction with local pro-Russian separatists. And first of all–in Odesa.

The active phase of the operation aimed to capture the local [participating] public authorities , and was scheduled for May 9–when under the ideological slogans of Victory Day, an opportunity to initiate the activity of pro-Russian sympathizers among the local population was present. After achieving tactical successes in Odesa, similar actions by incoming “Putin’s tourists” were to be initiated in Mykolayiv and Kherson.

However, the beginning of the active phase of the ATO in Sloviansk made ​​Russian leadership force events in southern Ukraine, in order to compel Ukrainian security forces to urgently deploy resources and means from Donbas. We observed the tragic result of this monstrous provocation yesterday in Odesa.

Click link for remainder of information.

Looks like Russia is still promising not to invade.....

/end sarcasm

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: cosmonova

“We are not separatists, we are not radicals. I live in Kharkov and I am 61 and want to understand what country I live in,” said one local resident.

“When are they going to stop calling us separatists? We get up each morning and start greeting each other, ‘hello I’m a separatist’, ‘hello, I’m a terrorist,’” said a women living in Lugansk.

Residents in the east of the country are ready for the long haul. They have local support and have begun to fortify positions around cities and towns, in preparation for expected attacks from forces loyal to Kiev. However, many hope it won’t come to this.

“We are all Slavs. We have to live in peace. We are brothers and we should not fight each other. Our home is Russia,” said a group of men aged around 50. “How is it possible to listen to that so-called government from Kiev who gave orders today to kill their own people in Slavyansk,” they continued.

very good documentary shot by ordinary people living in various places in South East of Ukraine.

rtd.rt.com...-1

I also noticed used alot of footage we saw in Crimea like them forcing the Ukrainian military out of the troop transport. RT is shall we say misrepresenting the facts being shown. I guess RT thinks we have short memories.

oh, it took you a couple minutes to see a 25 minutes film and already making conclusions, lol, awesome.

If the footage was from Crimea, and is being portrayed as something its not by RT, why watch the entire video since its already been proven its not video relevant to the point at hand?

Also, you made the comment and posted the video and failed to support it as factual (because its not) and now you try to go back after the poster who called you out by accusing him of not watching a 25 minute propaganda piece put out by RT...



riiiight...

Anders Östlund ‏@andersostlund · 4h
Anybody out there supporting Russia, Putin not paid for it?

Linas Linkevicius ‏@LinkeviciusL · 13h
Release of #OSCE team- good step. Way to stop other provocations too. Especially as they go out of control of forces that inspired them...

For starters I didn't call you out, you offered yourself. I know your opinion is biased and I don't actually consider you a paid shill, but funny you sprang in in defense.

Secondly, I don't dismiss the "Pro-Russian" side and it should still be illegal for government to feed there own citizens with propaganda. Nor should foreign governments be permitted to do the same. I am well aware that ATS is incapable of fending off propaganda from multiple channels with resources and money.

My post(s) were not directed towards any potential paid shills, but rather towards the readers and members of ATS to take note.

Lastly the title of this thread is itself pure propaganda, so if you ask me this thread should have been 404'd a long time ago, but I suppose its best to keep'em all corralled here.

And my original post was calling out a couple new members who appeared to shift places as an FYI.

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: cosmonova

“We are not separatists, we are not radicals. I live in Kharkov and I am 61 and want to understand what country I live in,” said one local resident.

“When are they going to stop calling us separatists? We get up each morning and start greeting each other, ‘hello I’m a separatist’, ‘hello, I’m a terrorist,’” said a women living in Lugansk.

Residents in the east of the country are ready for the long haul. They have local support and have begun to fortify positions around cities and towns, in preparation for expected attacks from forces loyal to Kiev. However, many hope it won’t come to this.



“We are all Slavs. We have to live in peace. We are brothers and we should not fight each other. Our home is Russia,” said a group of men aged around 50. “How is it possible to listen to that so-called government from Kiev who gave orders today to kill their own people in Slavyansk,” they continued.

very good documentary shot by ordinary people living in various places in South East of Ukraine.

rtd.rt.com...-1

I also noticed used alot of footage we saw in Crimea like them forcing the Ukrainian military out of the troop transport. RT is shall we say misrepresenting the facts being shown. I guess RT thinks we have short memories.

oh, it took you a couple minutes to see a 25 minutes film and already making conclusions, lol, awesome.

Nope i watched until i started seeing footage from Crimea invalidates anything the video has to say not going to waist my time.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: cosmonova

“We are not separatists, we are not radicals. I live in Kharkov and I am 61 and want to understand what country I live in,” said one local resident.

“When are they going to stop calling us separatists? We get up each morning and start greeting each other, ‘hello I’m a separatist’, ‘hello, I’m a terrorist,’” said a women living in Lugansk.

Residents in the east of the country are ready for the long haul. They have local support and have begun to fortify positions around cities and towns, in preparation for expected attacks from forces loyal to Kiev. However, many hope it won’t come to this.

“We are all Slavs. We have to live in peace. We are brothers and we should not fight each other. Our home is Russia,” said a group of men aged around 50. “How is it possible to listen to that so-called government from Kiev who gave orders today to kill their own people in Slavyansk,” they continued.

very good documentary shot by ordinary people living in various places in South East of Ukraine.

rtd.rt.com...-1

I also noticed used alot of footage we saw in Crimea like them forcing the Ukrainian military out of the troop transport. RT is shall we say misrepresenting the facts being shown. I guess RT thinks we have short memories.

oh, it took you a couple minutes to see a 25 minutes film and already making conclusions, lol, awesome.

If the footage was from Crimea, and is being portrayed as something its not by RT, why watch the entire video since its already been proven its not video relevant to the point at hand?

Also, you made the comment and posted the video and failed to support it as factual (because its not) and now you try to go back after the poster who called you out by accusing him of not watching a 25 minute propaganda piece put out by RT...



riiiight...

Anders Östlund ‏@andersostlund · 4h
Anybody out there supporting Russia, Putin not paid for it?

Linas Linkevicius ‏@LinkeviciusL · 13h
Release of #OSCE team- good step. Way to stop other provocations too. Especially as they go out of control of forces that inspired them...

not paying attention again?
Footage is not from Crimea, this film is related to South East of Ukraine. How about you watch it first and make comments after?
I am asking you as well what I failed to support in previous video I posted?
He stated Pro-Russians are not a force in the area.
Pro-Russians are a force to reckon with and my video has proven that. Thousands of people In Odessa marching and chanting ' Russia Russia', carrying Russian flags and asking for referendum a few weeks back.
What I failed to support exactly?

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
For starters I didn't call you out, you offered yourself. I know your opinion is biased and I don't actually consider you a paid shill, but funny you sprang in in defense.

Yes you did.. You posted it when I started posting. Trying to back track away from now is disingenuous.
As for my position its not biased in the least. I just don't support an invasion of Ukraine by Russia and I don't support Russian lies to try and justify it. But again, way to try and spin the issue back to me by once again making an accusation you cant support.

originally posted by: [post=17879355]Rosinitiate[/post
Secondly, I don't dismiss the "Pro-Russian" side and it should still be illegal for government to feed there own citizens with propaganda. Nor should foreign governments be permitted to do the same. I am well aware that ATS is incapable of fending off propaganda from multiple channels with resources and money.

I am so terribly sorry. Please point out in your initial post and follow up post where you called out the Pro Russian side.

Your response is even worse because you justified their actions (pro Russians with multiple accounts) because the "other side does it", which is crap and a lie. You only threw it in there as a way to spin your accusation back towards those you targeted with your initial failed accusation.
If you cant post what you mean why post at all?

originally posted by: [post=17879355]Rosinitiate[/post
My post(s) were not directed towards any potential paid shills, but rather towards the readers and members of ATS to take note.

Stop... you are getting ridiculous trying to spin your accusation into something its not while trying to argue its not about someone when in fact it is.

originally posted by: [post=17879355]Rosinitiate[/post
Lastly the title of this thread is itself pure propaganda, so if you ask me this thread should have been 404'd a long time ago, but I suppose its best to keep'em all corralled here.

Because the site is based in the US where we don't force thread closures on topics only a handful of users disapprove of yet somehow mysteriously can never provide evidence of their accusations to support their claims.

If you want that type of censorship then may I suggest you find a forum hosted in Russia and go there and complain to people who only share your and Moscow's point of view.

Secondly, to clarify for you - Armed masked gunmen seized the Crimean government, including its PM, who was elected by the people of Crimea. Those same masked men then appointed a new PM without any votes by the people of Crimea. They then forced a vote that was rigged from the start to give Moscow the outcome it wants (see UNHCR report for April).

Putin then states that those little green men assisting in the coup were Russian soldiers.

Contrary to what your PR puppets in Moscow and their PR mouthpiece of Russia state media tells you to think, Russia in fact invaded Ukraine. They sent in military forces in violation of their agreement with Ukraine. Those Russian forces took part in operations to seize Crimean chokepoints even before a vote on forced annexation into Russia.

Since the group did all of this PRIOR to voting for independence and prior to voting to join Russia, it means Russian military forces assisted in an invasion of Ukraine.

No matter how often you try to lie about that, the more and more people who are going to continue seeing it as a lie and the more and more ridiculous Russia and those parroting their justifications look.

Save the response. I am done with you and others lying and baiting people into arguments simply to hide the facts you cannot refute by dragging this thread off topic.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 7m
SBU called names of #russian citizens that provoked tragedy in #Odesa http://(link tracking not allowed)/Sm9tT1 | EMPR News #Ukraine

a reply to: cosmonova

How about if we make a bet i show you the footage of Crimean disarming the Ukrainians in that footage they used and you agree i can pick the icon you have to post with on your account ????

Russia now says separatists kidnapped and released the OSCE observers. once again they used the term separatist.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 3m
Russia claims that releasing #OSCE held hostage in #Sloviansk was separatists' act of courage.So what was kidnapping them? @SebastianAulich

International Desk ‏@CNNInternatDesk · 2m
Violence exploding in Ukraine cnn.it...

I certainly hope Russia was not lying, again, about invading Ukraine -

time.com...

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: cosmonova

How about if we make a bet i show you the footage of Crimean disarming the Ukrainians in that footage they used and you agree i can pick the icon you have to post with on your account ????

I do not bet but would like to know what are you talking about? Where is Crimea in this film?

Ok, never mind, you have just convinced me otherwise. Play on player.

a reply to: cosmonova

There using footage from crimea trying to pass it off as occurring now. At least man up and admit the video is propaganda ive admitted when i make a mistake and wrong and call it out for being propaganda. PS maybe you should actually watch the video even youll see footage weve seen before from crimea. Its called stock footage the video is hoping you wouldnt notice.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Ok, never mind, you have just convinced me otherwise. Play on player.

Ironic... quietly back away and save face while letting me think I won the argument when all you did was get called out, couldn't support it, and by backing away you don't have to support your accusations. Easier to hide and crawl out from under the rock later eh?

Well played.. The Russians used it before, and will most likely continue on using that bassackwards NTAC 2.0 compliant doctrine.

Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP · 3h
Russia adopts war-time rhetoric in showdown with Ukraine u.afp.com...

Igor Des ‏@Copernicus2013 · 2m
According to this, majority of arrested in #Odessa #Ukraine last night were citzens of #Russia and #Transnistria m.liga.net... …

Iftikhar Hussain ‏@iffiheaven · 3m
Russia says it has no control over pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine.simply Kremlin who started all this is not willing to be part of solution

every last drop of milk they can get...

RT ‏@RT_com · 22s
#Crimea observes 3 days of mourning over dozens dead in southeastern #Ukraine on.rt.com...

Fox News ‏@FoxNews · 11m
#Ukraine expands offensive against pro-Russian forces fxn.ws...

this is the last chance for banksters elite to save the dollar as reserve currency. War.. Russia and China are the last who are willing to submit to that order to remain for ever.

Ukraine has nothing to do with this crisis. It's between banksters and Russia (potentially a message to China).

Things will never be the same between banksters and those who oppose them. No matter how it is going to end, dollar is done.

If any one remembers, prior to event in Ukraine Putin went openly with trading with China and other countries in local currency.

Dollar is the only life beat banksters have. Take it away and house of cards falls. Too bad they won't quit their agenda peacefully.

But it does not matter any more -- they are done.

Putin with his announcement to begin trade in other currency than dollar came a little too early. He simply was one step ahead. Now elite is desperate, forced to play it's plan when there other details that would ensure blitzkrieg were not completely worked out.

You know, sooner or later this was going to happen.

You talk all you want who did what first. Any one with half of brain knows what is going on looking at the big picture.

did I just make any sense at all or not?

cheers all)

Until Friday, Odessa, a Black Sea port in southern Ukraine, had been mostly calm. Amid the chaos, which included the lobbing of firebombs, it was not immediately clear who had started the blaze, though a report from a pro-Ukraine national newspaper, Ukrainska Pravda, suggested that Ukrainian activists had done nothing to help those inside. “As the building burned, the Ukrainian activists continued to scream mottos about Putin and sing the Ukrainian national anthem,” the article said, referring to President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.

Most victims were apparently overcome by smoke or burned, but several were reported to have died leaping from the flames.

Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry blamed the day of violence on provocateurs “paid generously by the Russian special services,” while Russia’s Foreign Ministry blamed a Ukrainian nationalist group, Right Sector.

Ihor Borshulyak, the city’s regional prosecutor, was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying that 144 people had been arrested and that one of several inquiries would look into whether the police had failed to execute their duties. Interior Minister Arsen Avakov fired the local police chief on Saturday.

www.nytimes.com...

originally posted by: Xcathdra
every last drop of milk they can get...

RT ‏@RT_com · 22s
#Crimea observes 3 days of mourning over dozens dead in southeastern #Ukraine on.rt.com...

Fox News ‏@FoxNews · 11m
#Ukraine expands offensive against pro-Russian forces fxn.ws...

Well, that's better than celebrating it like you appear to be doing. Crimea is mourning 38 murdered people, and your calling it propaganda. You're a real class act mate.

originally posted by: darkorange
this is the last chance for banksters elite to save the dollar as reserve currency. War.. Russia and China are the last who are willing to submit to that order to remain for ever.

Ukraine has nothing to do with this crisis. It's between banksters and Russia (potentially a message to China).

Things will never be the same between banksters and those who oppose them. No matter how it is going to end, dollar is done.

If any one remembers, prior to event in Ukraine Putin went openly with trading with China and other countries in local currency.

Dollar is the only life beat banksters have. Take it away and house of cards falls. Too bad they won't quit their agenda peacefully.

But it does not matter any more -- they are done.

Putin with his announcement to begin trade in other currency than dollar came a little too early. He simply was one step ahead. Now elite is desperate, forced to play it's plan when there other details that would ensure blitzkrieg were not completely worked out.

You know, sooner or later this was going to happen.

You talk all you want who did what first. Any one with half of brain knows what is going on looking at the big picture.

did I just make any sense at all or not?

cheers all)

You may be right about the bankers but i think your looking at the wrong ones. Im beginning to suspect this is between Russian oligarchs and Ukrainian oligarchs. See ive been watching the moneyin Ukraine the FBI is trying to get one of Ukraines elite extradited to discuss ties with Russia another is paying rewards for captured separatists.And the one even donated millions to the Ukrainian military to buy gas for there vehicles. And than we have Russian oligarchs trying to damage the Ukrainian economy with threats and price hikes. Im beginning to think were seeing a clash of money between Ukraine and Russia. And there is multiple rumors of people being paid by Russians.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
Well, that's better than celebrating it like you appear to be doing. Crimea is mourning 38 murdered people, and your calling it propaganda. You're a real class act mate.

Oh please knock off the BS.

Point out where I have celebrated anything that has resulted in death or destruction in Ukraine. Simply making assinine comments like that only proves you have no issues leveling an accusation while completely and totality failing to support it with anything. In this case it would be futile since I am not celebrating.

Please, oh enlightened one, explain how my comment about Crimea / Russian Media milking the deaths of those in Odessa for their PR propaganda is celebrating anything?

Its called calling out Pro-Russian actions by inciting action that resulted in deaths so Russian state media / Crimean media can use the incident to their advantage.

If you can't understand that point, then that is on you. No where have I ever celebrated the death of anyone and I don't care for the accusation. Out of curiosity is it possible for you, based on your response and others, actually take the time to understand a post before up and deciding it means something it does not?

speaking of class act....


As I was stating - propaganda use -

RT ‏@RT_com · 2m
#Odessa mourns bloodshed victims, activists demand 'murderer' governor's resignation on.rt.com...

John Baird ‏@HonJohnBaird · 3h
The Russian Federation is only undermining and isolating itself further with this orchestrated campaign to threaten and destabilize #Ukraine

one would think Russia would use a new game plan on Propaganda instead of one they used during the cold war... and in Crimea... and in south and east Ukraine... and now in Odessa.

Blogs of War ‏@BlogsofWar · 45m
Ukraine crisis: death by fire in Odessa as country suffers bloodiest day since ... - Telegraph.co.uk... goo.gl...

Talk about de-escalation -

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk · 3h
Pro-Russian separatist leader in Ukraine says he’s formed an army to march on Kiev. cnn.it...

zerohedge ‏@zerohedge · 1m
Bank Torched To The Ground As Ukraine Expands Military Operation In East /nblatt7

New Eastern Europe ‏@NewEastEurope · May 2
@StateOfUkraine:Info about # of dead & who started fire in #Odessa Ukraine needs to be verified. too many reports of planned provocations.