Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: ProfessorT

The second round have already been put in place from what I have seen. The third around, if it goes, occurs Monday.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Supposedly, when the sanctions hit, Putin was stupefied as it was something he did not expect.

It actuality it was the US which was stupefied when Germany and UK would not go along the 'heavy sanctions'.

Why should they? UK has $100B or more of Russian investments and upto 300,000 German jobs depend on trade with Russia.

What for? to tow the line of ultra aggressive US agenda of expanding NATO eastwards? don't think so !

It is the USA not Russia which has brought the world to a near WW3 scenario. NATO is the real Axil of Evil (US, UK and France).

originally posted by: Xcathdra
From the varying info dealing with economics and Russia, it has been suggested that Putin never thought that Germany would allow sanctions to occur based on their level of trade between the 2 nations.

Supposedly, when the sanctions hit, Putin was stupefied as it was something he did not expect.

I would call BS to that.

Every economic indicator points to Russia not only knowing, but planning around potential sanctions prior to Crimea. There was a marked increase in trade and in trade negotiations between Russia and non NATO members starting in mid 2013.

As for EU sanctions...best hope that Russia backs down before winter, eh?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ProfessorT

The second round have already been put in place from what I have seen. The third around, if it goes, occurs Monday.

In that case, dependent on the severity of them, they can only be a short term measure. I think the real test for the worlds' financial markets will come on Monday when the new sanctions are said to be released. Like I said earlier...countries have militaries for a reason and if the new sanctions don't work then I'm afraid some difficult decision will have to be made.

a reply to: victor7


Merkel: EU ministers to meet on Russia sanctions

By Associated Press, Updated: Friday, April 25, 9:43 AM

BERLIN — The European Union’s foreign ministers will meet soon to consider further targeted sanctions against Russia over its failure to help stem Ukraine’s crisis, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Friday.

Merkel spoke after complaining in a telephone conversation with Russian President Vladimir Putin about a lack of public commitment on Moscow’s part to last week’s Geneva deal aimed at calming tensions.

Yet here we are, where Russia is sanctioned, has no international support from any significant nation, and whose economy is taking a massive hit.

a reply to: peck420

not really no... Europe can do what the Baltic states are doing - deploying temporary gas storage facilities to bulk up reserves should Russia continue to go insane.

As for the Russian reaction to sanctions, Putin was expecting Germany to block them. The opposite happened and Russia was not prepared for it. The former German Chancellor G. Schroeder currently site on the Nord stream board, which works with Gazprom on the northern pipeline. Merkel has taken an interest in that project because of Schroeder's public comments on the situation, which infuriated Merkel.

All one has to do is read the info coming from the Russian finance minister, who is currently talking gloom and doom over capital investment drying up, a downgrade in their credit rating to BBB coupled with bank sanctions resulting in 80-160 billion leaving the nation for 2014.

Contrary to what people wish, gas is not the weapon people who support Russia hopes it is. Only 30 percent of European LNG comes from Russia.

ABC World News ‏@ABCWorldNews · 8m
Pres. Obama says he “absolutely” would save a drowning Putin: abcn.ws... #ABCWorldNews

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 12m
Freedom of press infringed by armed #Donetsk separatists in Eastern #Ukraine wp.me... | EMPR News

LOL

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 4m
Collective Security Treaty Organization has suspended all contacts with #NATO due to crisis in #Ukraine - RIA Novosti pic.twitter.com/wxx3GHyDlJ

Whats next, sanctions from the 5 BRIC nations?

RT ‏@RT_com · 40s
US collapsing, becoming Casino Gulag state youtu.be... @maxkeiser @stacyherbert

This from a country who just announced plans to turn Crimea into a gambling destination.

I do have an awful crush on Angela Merkel but I digress...actually thinking about it...no. She is a fantastic politician and reminds me a lot of Margaret Thatcher in her speeches and mannerisms (steady on all you miners). I think if anyone was going to calm Vladimir Putin down it would have been her.

a reply to: ProfessorT

Ah yes.. German... the language of love... j/k

She reminds me of the grandmother type with attitude. All nice and sweat but if you cross her it would be better to flee and hide for a few days.

B4IN ObamaBirth ‏@B4INObamaBirth · Apr 24
How close ar we to WW3? Russian media s reporting that Rusia will move its’ troops into Eastern Ukrine if tere... b4in.com...

MaidanUA ‏@twitt_maidanua · Apr 24
10:25 The IMF mission proposes to give $17 billion to Ukrine

The IMF mission recommended to give a $17 billion... fb.me...

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yet here we are, where Russia is sanctioned, has no international support from any significant nation, and whose economy is taking a massive hit.

Russia has not reacted yet.

Russia will not react by cutting the gas supplies.

It will react in different ways and different places.

a reply to: victor7

So you say and then we have all these people talking about Russian gas.

Aside from the gas, Russia has no leverage?

The Associated Press ‏@AP · 1h
VIDEO: Standard & Poor's cuts Russia's credit grade for the first time in five years over Ukraine worries: apne.ws...

William Hague ‏@WilliamJHague · 7h
Spoken to Secretary @JohnKerry to coordinate next steps on #Ukraine crisis. Russia's failure to follow up Geneva agreement is indefensible

The Interpreter ‏@Interpreter_Mag · 2h
Ukraine Liveblog: At Least 14 People Remain Abducted Or Missing In East Ukraine http://(link tracking not allowed)/1ffEGRG

MFA of Ukraine ‏@MFA_Ukraine · 3h
Designate Russia as "State Sponsor of Terrorism"; wh.gov...

a reply to: Xcathdra
Seeing as a 5% reduction created a crisis in the US, I hardly see a 30% reduction being shrugged off by Europe.

As for their capital exodus...um, sorry bub, that has been going on for years, and hasn't done much to hurt the Russians yet...so, how is that going to change today?

And, no, Europe does not have the storage capacity to 'bulk up their reserves' to cover the winter. They have enough storage to cover a month, and that would be at extreme rationing levels.

I've gone and done it now -

a reply to: Xcathdra

The hands of Bratva reach far.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ProfessorT

Ah yes.. German... the language of love... j/k

She reminds me of the grandmother type with attitude. All nice and sweat but if you cross her it would be better to flee and hide for a few days.

B4IN ObamaBirth ‏@B4INObamaBirth · Apr 24
How close ar we to WW3? Russian media s reporting that Rusia will move its’ troops into Eastern Ukrine if tere... b4in.com...

MaidanUA ‏@twitt_maidanua · Apr 24
10:25 The IMF mission proposes to give $17 billion to Ukrine

The IMF mission recommended to give a $17 billion... fb.me...

Thats why I wouldn't be against sending her to Slavyansk with some 'self defence' guys from NATO countries who have just been to their local army surplus stores. I'm sure then there would be negotiations and the whole thing would be called a misunderstanding by the Russian Special Forces.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: ProfessorT

@SkyNewsBreak: Reuters: Pentagon says Russian aircraft has entered Ukrainian airspace on several occasions in past 24 hours

Ukraine needs to down their aircraft if Russia is going to continue violating international law and Ukrainian territorial integrity.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 19s
Division of #Russian Army is stationed near Maryevka&Lysogorka,Rostov Oblast 20km from #Ukraine border pic.twitter.com/fZ59K6E8SC @JerryPopowicz

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 5m
Does #EU & #US need more evidences after kidnapping of journalists & #OSCE mission in #Sloviansk to recognize separatists as terrorists? -FB

Russia is trying to get Ukraine to shoot first. Putin will fake some crap to get it started if they do not. I vote they blow the Ruskies from the sky!

Hell Obama is quick to call Americans terrorist so why not? Hold onto your boot straps cause its about to get really hot in Ukraine. NATO would be wise to watch the Georgian borders very closely for a push to Syria as well. I would also watch those commies in Belorussia cause that is likely to be Russia's only backer in this pony show.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Gas revenues run Russia's economy, so Kremlin would be foolish to cut its own revenues off. At least that's what I think. But Russia can react in different ways and means.

Btw, telegraph uk says that even third round sanctions won't pinch much. However, Russian planes are violating the airspace and army is exercising at only 1 mile from the border now.

It is any time, probably this weekend, Russians will cross the borders.

Yuk !! what would that mean? bad for global markets and economies right away......may be major war later? let's hope not !!

originally posted by: peck420
a reply to: Xcathdra
Seeing as a 5% reduction created a crisis in the US, I hardly see a 30% reduction being shrugged off by Europe.

We don't get our oil supplies from Russia. We don't get our LNG supplies from Russia.

As for their capital exodus...um, sorry bub, that has been going on for years, and hasn't done much to hurt the Russians yet...so, how is that going to change today?

Uhm nope - We are talking sanctions related to their invasion of Ukraine -
Russia says sanctions hurting, warns foreign firms not to go

Russia's economy is highly dependent on oil and gas and the industry, in turn, depends on foreign investment and technology.

Capital outflows from Russia have surged as international tensions have worsened and investors have moved their money out.

Central bank data released earlier this month showed an estimated $63.7 billion in net capital outflows in the first three months of the year, the same as for the whole of 2013. The World Bank has said this year's total could reach $150 billion.

The economy shrank by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2014, compared with the previous three months, though it grew 0.8 percent year-on-year, the economy minister said this month.

The ruble is down about 8 percent against the dollar this year.

Russia has spent 10-20 billion to prop the Ruble up on the international market.

All from just their invasion into Ukraine.

And, no, Europe does not have the storage capacity to 'bulk up their reserves' to cover the winter. They have enough storage to cover a month, and that would be at extreme rationing levels.

Yes Europe has the ability to bulk up their storage capacity - Just as the Baltic states are doing -

Baltic states lead push to cut Russia gas reliance

originally posted by: Xcathdra
I've gone and done it now -

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge

Russia is trying to get Ukraine to shoot first. Putin will fake some crap to get it started if they do not. I vote they blow the Ruskies from the sky!

This is the part I don't get... Russia has already shot first... They invaded Ukraine, and now they violate their airspace. Exactly what would Russia need to do in order to get it across that Russia started this mess, that Russia has in fact invaded Ukraine, Russian special forces have been taken into custody inside Ukraine, and now Russia violates their airspace.

Shooting a Russian military aircraft down inside Ukraine airspace or killing Russian forces who are inside Ukraine boundaries would not give Russia any type of justification.

originally posted by: ProfessorT

originally posted by: Xcathdra
I've gone and done it now -

Awesome.... lol

originally posted by: ProfessorT

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: ProfessorT
Sanctions are hurting everybody and in this case I think the EU and the US thought the first round of sanctions would be a quick fix and Russia would keep their toys in their pram. Sadly, Russia hasn't changed it's position and continues to illegally control Crimea and has sent Russian Special Forces into Eastern Ukraine - which is a fact. Countries have militaries for a reason.

From the varying info dealing with economics and Russia, it has been suggested that Putin never thought that Germany would allow sanctions to occur based on their level of trade between the 2 nations.

Supposedly, when the sanctions hit, Putin was stupefied as it was something he did not expect.

Yeah, I seem to recall the differing readouts of telephone conversations between Angela Merkel and Vladimir Putin a few weeks back. Those readouts actually tell you a lot about the politics of the Ukraine crisis. If the second round of sanctions are imposed and they do not work then what next? NATO should start visiting army surplus stores.

NATO already has so much they can give Russia a swift kick in the jewels so hard, Russia would be quiet for the next 50 years lol. Putin will try to pick on Ukraine and be routed but then will try to take Israel as revenge and still get a beating of biblical proportions.