They're Coming For Your Birth Control!

reply to post by windword


Dude, attacking religion is not going to help you at all.

Here's why. In the Us you can practice a religion or choose not to.
In the US, you are not allowed to murder.
Whats up for debate then actually?
When you can you murder and stay out of jail? Think about it. an abortion without any real cause is murder. You cannot terminate life just because you say its your choice to and think there is a legal justification for it.

At best you would be right in arguing for the fourth amendment, "the right of a person to be safe in their persons" and that could only really apply if a mothers life was at risk. IF that gave you that much.
The pursuit of happiness does not grant you nor me the right to murder.
The right of liberty does not grant you nor me the ability to disobey the law.
The right to life support the pro life position because you are granted life, if you and the government can actually secure it and in todays society that is VERY questionable.

Originally posted by windword

Oh okay. You're of the belief that semen imparts some magical property that instantly changes a woman's egg, which is alive and unique in it's own right, into a perfect, innocent human being. Using a form of prevention to inhibit that magic, single celled being from implanting into the uterus is premeditated murder.

I love how you guys take one of the most well-understood biological processes in all of science, and attempt to turn it into an absolute mystery.

Yes, semen does impart an almost magical property that instantly changes a women's egg... they're called chromosomes. Once the male chromosomes contained in the sperm fuse with the female chromosomes contained in the egg, a new human is created.

Get over your bad male self!

There you have it folks, blind sexism in all it's splendor.

reply to post by Nephalim


Murder is only applicable to a human being. A fertilized egg is not (yet) a human being. Interrupting the biological process through contraception is not murder.

reply to post by Bone75


Is actually the same process for all the mammals in the animal kingdom no mystery no "miracle of birth" no special or sacred is just surviving of the species.

But what can I say, religion can not have it that way, is sacrilegious, an abomination and occurs they hate science because it exposes the truth.

The worst enemy of human enlightenment is the binds that comes with religious thinking, we humans are not special we are just one of the many animals in our kingdom and the most disrespectful to nature

reply to post by Bone75


There is nothing sacred about biology. The sacred doesn't come from the physical, it comes from the spiritual. Chemical reactions are not supernatural or magical. They're not sacred, they just are.

I firmly believe this latest attempt to take control over their bodies away from women referenced in the OP is rooted in greed, not religiousity--which is just a convenient cover.

The politicians who support and pass this legislation are funded by large corporate donations. Many companies in America are not managed well enough to increase profits the old-fashioned way: by building a better product, providing an outstanding service, or making their organization more efficient.
So they are looking for an easier way to make money--increasing the number of consumers to sell to.

Less availability of birth control = more consumers, because, let's face it, people are going to continue to "get it on"

One would think the pharma and insurance companies would not support this, but wait 9 months and you have a new customer for life.

The politicians have a perfect cover--how can you sound bad by wanting to "protect human life"; even though their arguments are absurd and unscientific.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Nephalim

 

Murder is only applicable to a human being. A fertilized egg is not (yet) a human being. Interrupting the biological process through contraception is not murder.

So you agree then you're simply arguing the when, not the why. The what is the issue though, the what is no longer a what once it takes on life. If the government decides through a group of doctors consultation that life begins at conception, guess what? That what becomes a who and then the when comes into play. That my friend would be murder if the who is aborted.

Originally posted by Nephalim

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Nephalim

 

Murder is only applicable to a human being. A fertilized egg is not (yet) a human being. Interrupting the biological process through contraception is not murder.

So you agree then you're simply arguing the when, not the why

What why? Why what? If you're asking "Why not?" that's none of your business. That's the woman's business.

The what is the issue though, the what is no longer a what once it takes on life.

What is life? The egg is alive. The sperm is alive. Life is not created through fertilization. It's transformed through chemical reaction.

If the government decides through a group of doctors consultation that life begins at conception, guess what? That what becomes a who and then the when comes into play. That my friend would be murder if the who is aborted.

There is no "life fairy" that magically imparts life at some instant. Life is continuous cycle.

reply to post by Nephalim


Human eggs get fertilized all the time, in the women wombs, but the body expel them, what they are going do now? by your logic women eggs have to be monitored everyday of their cycle to make sure that when the body expels a fertilized one she is arrested for murder?

That is why draconian laws base on what you are assuming will never pass. Because men will have to be monitored for every ejaculation in which they kill a possible human being in the future, because sperm is alive when leaving the body, that will be a lot of murder convictions in the nation.

See the double standards here, is all about taking rights for women nothing about men just women.

What why? Why what? If you're asking "Why not?" that's none of your business. That's the woman's business.

Point number 1
Windword it is the practicing physicians business because they also have to obey the laws. And its the fathers business as well. Recall that a man and a woman create life. A woman does not create life on her own.

Point #2
Is the result of that chemical reaction what society calls life? Ya hear me knockin?

Point#3
Exactly, and the best we have to determine the beginning of a life cycle is the expert opinion of physicians, two or more experts plus law, set by government, enforced by law enforcement, this trumps your personal want for life termination. That's reality.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Nephalim

 

Human eggs get fertilized all the time, in the women wombs, but the body expel them, what they are going do now? by your logic women eggs have to be monitored everyday of their cycle to make sure that when the body expels a fertilized one she is arrested for murder?

That is why draconian laws base on what you are assuming will never pass. Because men will have to be monitored for every ejaculation in which they kill a possible human being in the future, because sperm is alive when leaving the body, that will be a lot of murder convictions in the nation.

See the double standards here, is all about taking rights for women nothing about men just women.

edit on 4-7-2013 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

yes marg the body naturally expelling eggs is beyond your control and anyone elses. that is a natural occurrence. But an abortion is not. Its after the fact and a manmade deal. Unless that abortion is accidental, then its natural. A woman cant be held at fault for an accident like that. Nor more than the set of parents can be faulted for underdevelopment or other complications during labor. There is no double standard if sperm never meets the egg and vice versa. That is not an abortion. An egg plus sperm is the combo, this is exactly why neither man nor women will ever be monitored. The combination is what creates life.

I read the post and wile i agree relgion needs to get out of peoples bedroom.
Im 47 and was marred for 14 years and being logical Inbtween kids my wife went on birth control .
So far so good right? well first thing the Depocote did was cause her to get a cyst in her wome . Bleeding that never stoped untill they finly cut it out.
Ok so could have een worse right? Well it got worse we had another kid after that then put her back on ((not knowing depocote was so dangress yet.
Well after the last kid she was on over a year and when she stoped again she could NO LONGER get preggers.
No longer even had her monthly cycle NO cycly what so ever no monthly thing women get . she was only 31 and totaly lost her ability to have kids .shes 37 now and still the same.
the cemicals Depocoto have been recalled ((norplant recalled . a good friend of mine had both her kids WILE ON THE PILL.
Ladys rember this post you want pregger free sex? well NOTHING is free and you risk lousing nthe chance to ever have a kid just so you can get one night of sex.
Be carfull when looking into birth controle FIND OUT the side effects .
Im not saying it cant work correctly but well frankly if i knew then what i know now I would have abastained rather then have my wife louse her ability to have kids.
Ps still it wasnt so bad after all we have 6 boys so though she could no longer get preggers well 6 is a good number ((but we wanted a girl tahts why we ended up with 6 . lol
Was happy though upon birth counted fingers added up to ten then as a bonis toes that added to ten as well

reply to post by midnightstar


I'm sorry to hear of your wife's troubles. I'm not a doctor and don't know the details of your wife's health problems, but I would imagine that giving birth to and raising six boys before the age of 31 might have something to do with her problems.

Some of the arguments on this thread are sounding like some people are saying birth control = abortion.

Do we really want to go back to the days of the past, where families are having a dozen children, because there's no way to control that outcome, except through abstinence (even though married), or through vasectomies, or even more invasive tubal ligations? Or hysterectomies?

Those days are gone. Does anyone remember the cost of raising children, especially with only one person working, because the woman is always pregnant (unless the man isn't getting any).

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Bone75

 

Is actually the same process for all the mammals in the animal kingdom no mystery no "miracle of birth" no special or sacred is just surviving of the species.

But what can I say, religion can not have it that way, is sacrilegious, an abomination and occurs they hate science because it exposes the truth.

The worst enemy of human enlightenment is the binds that comes with religious thinking, we humans are not special we are just one of the many animals in our kingdom and the most disrespectful to nature

Why is it impossible for you folks to debate the topic of birth control or abortion without bringing religion into the mix?
And how can you support the practice of abortion, then turn right around and complain about our being disrespectful to nature? I just don't get it.

Originally posted by windword

There is no "life fairy" that magically imparts life at some instant.

You're absolutely correct!

You see, there is this thing called a penis, and this other thing called a vagina......

reply to post by snowspirit


Im actually for birth control and the clinics staying open or current hospitals being upgraded for proper care. Go figure that one out. Its the attacking of religion and people thinking its ok to terminate life because they think its their right that's eating another hole in my ass. You can take religion out of it and consult our founding documents along with current laws and I see no where, where we are able to kill just because we think its ok or our choice.

and the ejaculation argument is the stupidest excuse anyone has ever used. Talk about flat earth society. Some people cant see passed their own asses.

Originally posted by Nephalim

What why? Why what? If you're asking "Why not?" that's none of your business. That's the woman's business.

Point number 1
Windword it is the practicing physicians business because they also have to obey the laws. And its the fathers business as well. Recall that a man and a woman create life. A woman does not create life on her own.

Contraception is constitutionally protected for both married and unmarried women, under the equal protection act. A woman is not obligated to explain to her doctor why she wants contraception, nor to explain why, when contraception fails, why she wants an abortion. A woman has no legal obligation to get her husband's approval for her to use contraception any more than she can forbid him to have a vasectomy.

A doctor's roll is defined by the law. Abortions are not to be performed after viability, (exceptions apply). Other than other health concerns, it's none of the doctor's business why a woman wants a constitutionally protected script for birth control or a legal abortion.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by windword

There is no "life fairy" that magically imparts life at some instant.

You're absolutely correct!

You see, there is this thing called a penis, and this other thing called a vagina......

Biology doesn't equal magic. Science and medicine found a way to interrupt the biological process that can occur between your sex organ and hers. It's called outsmarting nature.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by Nephalim

What why? Why what? If you're asking "Why not?" that's none of your business. That's the woman's business.

Point number 1
Windword it is the practicing physicians business because they also have to obey the laws. And its the fathers business as well. Recall that a man and a woman create life. A woman does not create life on her own.

Contraception is constitutionally protected for both married and unmarried women, under the equal protection act. A woman is not obligated to explain to her doctor why she wants contraception, nor to explain why, when contraception fails, why she wants an abortion. A woman has no legal obligation to get her husband's approval for her to use contraception any more than she can forbid him to have a vasectomy.

A doctor's roll is defined by the law. Abortions are not to be performed after viability, (exceptions apply). Other than other health concerns, it's none of the doctor's business why a woman wants a constitutionally protected script for birth control or a legal abortion.

Are you classifying abortion as contraception? Pills and rubbers are not unborn children! and no, a doctor doesnt have to tell anyone about a womans abortion, unless that woman is committing or has committed a crime, in which case, the doctor has the moral, ethical and lawful duty to not only refuse the service and a court can request to see documents if a doctor or patient breaks the law. Has this not been done in the past in a case where life was lost? Hmm? Medical records requested by the court and brought in as evidence? Are you telling me that this is not possible? and what constitutional right exists that man has no say in his families issues concerning life and death? please enlighten me, I do not practice law.