Government Agents Seize Oath Keeper's New Born From Hospital(Baby Returned)

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by hadriana

 

I agree, DCF is called out far too often and frivolously, but this particular family had frequent visits by the POLICE! Not DCF.

The police were called out on multiple occasions for violence and weapons related issues. He was already ordered to attend an anger management class, and he failed to attend. The police and the hospital staff were both "familiar" with the family long before this baby was born. Good families do not become familiar with police and hospital staff! They may partake of their services on occasion, but they do not get on a familiar basis!

I said in a post several pages ago, that I am familiar with these types of families. I am even connected to one. Trust me, DCF is taking babies as an extreme last resort. I have thought about taking babies myself after DCF declined to! I have taken dogs out of better homes than some of these babies are returned to.

I know we are all quick to question and criticize, and I know our government agencies are slow, inadequate, and sometimes corrupt, but this case is one that seems to have turned out correctly.

That is because they don't want the the children who really need help because they are more difficult to adopt out.

I can prove my earlier statement unfortunately I have to leave her in about 10 minutes and can't gatherer the info at this particular moment but I shall return to this thread when I get home.
This is the reason Nancy Schaefer was killed.

Originally posted by hadriana
They won't profit on it if they don't get BY with it.

I think the best thing we can do right now - to see justice done, is to be clicking on this story in order to push it up.

If our media isn't too lazy, they can get to the bottom of this, and hopefully shed light on the situation and see it to a proper conclusion - for EVERYONE.

so, wait, now you're saying theywont make millions on this?

which is it?

Originally posted by justadood
reply to post by nenothtu

 

indeed. IF it is legit. of course, it doesnt change the fact that Irish appears to have a police record of violence.

Violence in the past is not really proof of violence in the present. If that were the case, we could just start forced sterilization of miscreants, instead of kidnapping their kids as they're born.

Further, it's important, with a history of violent behavior, to clearly delineate WHO that violence is against. I myself have dropped a severe hurt on folks in the past, yet, oddly, I've never even spanked my own son.

Go figure.

if you know how, follow that name around on youtube and look at the # is he is saying.

www.youtube.com...

if it really is the "ex", he sure is an idiot for posting all that stuff on utube!

I don't know how to do that, but I've no reason to doubt your word. As a matter of fact, in that matter I have reason to NOT doubt your word, in the least.

And yes, I agree, if that really is him, he's a real idiot for posting that all over the internet. It will come back to bite him, right in his efforts.

Originally posted by justadood

Originally posted by hadriana
They won't profit on it if they don't get BY with it.

I think the best thing we can do right now - to see justice done, is to be clicking on this story in order to push it up.

If our media isn't too lazy, they can get to the bottom of this, and hopefully shed light on the situation and see it to a proper conclusion - for EVERYONE.

so, wait, now you're saying theywont make millions on this?

which is it?

Dude, not if they get by with it. I can call you DUDE, can't I?

You seem to be trying to steer this thread in weird ways.
Not sure I trust YOUR motivations. I WAS giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm clear. I don't like DFCS, don't support them. Have watched them for a long time and have come to that conclusion with all the information I could find to support my decision.
They circumvent the constitution and they are dangerous.

NOT that they mean to be, they have some great folks with great intentions there...but the way they are set up, and their processes - are downright tyrannical.

reply to post by ThatDGgirl


That's a critical post. This story is true, beyond any shadow of a doubt. OathKeepers has confirmed this and has it posted.

CONFIRMED: Court Did Rely on Oath Keeper Association to Take Baby

There has been some confusion about this case, leading some commentators to believe that the reference to John Irish’s “association” with Oath Keepers was in some other document, rather than in the affidavit relied on by the Court’s Order. Alex Jones’ site, in an effort to protect the privacy of the family, posted excerpts from two different documents, leading some to question where the reference actually was.

To clear that up, below you will find an embedded PDF which contains the full (though redacted) versions of the following documents: the two Petitions (one pertaining to each parent), the Court’s Ex Parte Order, the Affidavit of Dana Bickford which was attached, the Motion for Change of Venue, and lastly, the Notice to Accused Parent, explaining the legal process. We have highlighted in yellow all text where the Petitions or the Court Order refers to the Affidavit which contains reference to Oath Keepers.

By looking at the below documents, you will be able to see from the two Petitions, the Order, and Affidavit item #7, in that order, that:

1. Both Petitions state: “7. Details or Details or facts of abuse/neglect (attach separate sheet if necessary): See affidavit filed with the Concord Family Court.”

oathkeepers.org...

Now what I want to know is how a Judge approved the removal order without checking to see who OathKeepers really was. Or was this a case of "Judge doesn't read order, and just signs it."

Much like congress doesn't read the bills they vote on. Boy, this problem really IS systemic, isn't it... Fire them all, every last one of them.

There needs to be at the very very LEAST, a public apology and clearing of OathKeeper's name, so that is not seen as a MILITIA, in any way, shape or form. Not to mention the removal of that nonsense from the order. Of course it's a little late now- the kid is gone.

ETA: ok, now that this is true, you all may flag this thread now.

The law says you are innocent until proven guilty. We need to see what the family is guilty of that would warrant the seizure of their newborn. They have 2 other kids and they were not taken.

There are still a lot of unknowns here.

How this has stayed off the MSM I do not know.

I have called the Hospitial, the PD and DHHS None of them would comment on the "Investigation"

They may not be perfect parents but how many truly are?

I am an Oath Keeper, I own Guns, I am also Militia.

I can tell you that if this happen in MS the child would have been returned immediatly.

They know better down south.

Originally posted by hadriana

Originally posted by justadood

Originally posted by hadriana
They won't profit on it if they don't get BY with it.

I think the best thing we can do right now - to see justice done, is to be clicking on this story in order to push it up.

If our media isn't too lazy, they can get to the bottom of this, and hopefully shed light on the situation and see it to a proper conclusion - for EVERYONE.

so, wait, now you're saying theywont make millions on this?

which is it?

Dude, not if they get by with it. I can call you DUDE, can't I?

You seem to be trying to steer this thread in weird ways.
Not sure I trust YOUR motivations. I WAS giving you the benefit of the doubt.

yes, you may call me dude :-) i've been called far worse on ATS.


Well, first you claimed they were in it for the money, then Getready... provided evidence that they DONT get much money at all. To which you seemed to respond that they wont get money if they dont get away with it.

So, i'm asking again, do you still believe they (CPS) will get a significant amount of money of money for this?

I dont agree, and neither do the facts.

As far as questioning motive, you appear to be the one making false claims about CPS' financial intentions.

no hard feelings. just pointing out what i see.

be well

reply to post by SWCCFAN


SWCC,

I am technically a member of Sons of Liberty Riders (the actual "militia" in question, Oathkeepers was mistakenly put into the affidavit). They have no idea who I am, and I don't agree with most of their stuff. They seemed alright, the only way to find out more was to sign up, which I did online, and then I learned I didn't want to be part of it, so I am not. BUT, if I were investigated, someone would find them on my computer and I would be associated with them. Same for Oathkeepers. Am I a member? Maybe. But, I am not in Law Enforcement or Military, so I never took any Oath in the first place. I am a real-life member of the Patriot Guard, the Masons, the Shriners, and the Tea Party, but are my actions all representative of those organizations?

Here is the point. There are surely a lot of members of these organizations that are not good people. I LOVE the Masons, but there are some Masons that I would not defend their actions. I LOVE the "idea" of the Tea Party, but I certainly do not condone the behavior of Beck or Palin.

Can you really say, with what you know of this case, that your groups in MS would rush to the defense of this person? I can say with 100% certainty that I would not defend him, regardless of my loose affiliations with groups that we may both be members. If you would rush to the defense of someone with his history and record, then you would cheapen your involvement with otherwise high-quality groups. This is a bad guy, a bad family, a bad environment for the child, despite the affiliation with Oathkeepers, which may be the only positive thing in this guys repertoire!

Like I said before. The mentioning of Oathkeepers was a grave error on the part of some stupid law clerk. The Judge probably didn't give it a second thought, because there was plenty of merit to the case with or without that mention.

Originally posted by SWCCFAN

I can tell you that if this happen in MS the child would have been returned immediatly.

They know better down south.

Not necessarily. It depends on how good the local propaganda apparatus is, and how corrupt the DCS is. I know personally of one case in VA, in Henry County, where 2 kids were kidnapped from a family by DCS on trumped up charges. Doesn't matter that the charges were trumped up, the government made them stick, anyhow.

One parent was told that to even get supervised VISITATION with the children, a divorce was required, and in any event the children would stay where they were, regardless,

The father fought the case, tooth and nail, spent ALL of his savings and went into debt to fight it, and got 4 years in a federal pen on trumped up charges for his efforts. I had known the man for about 10 or 12 years, and have all the confidence in the world that the charges were trumped up.

Henry County got 20,000 dollars for the youngest, a daughter, when they "placed" her. I don't know how much they made off of the oldest, a son.

The moral of this story is that "you can't fight city hall". But, if you ever decide to give it a go, make sure you have friends with you. LOTS of friends.

And pitch forks.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
If you would rush to the defense of someone with his history and record, then you would cheapen your involvement with otherwise high-quality groups. This is a bad guy, a bad family, a bad environment for the child, despite the affiliation with Oathkeepers, which may be the only positive thing in this guys repertoire!

Can you please be more specific as to "his history and record"? All that the affidavits have are innuendo, and "half truths" intended to present a misleading argument. Some parts of it, the "Oath Keepers Militia" for example, are not mere exaggerations, but out right bald faced lies.

Makes one wonder what else in there might be an out right lie.

So, if you can provide another source as to his "history and record", dealing in specifics and not innuendo, I'm all ears. It would make it a lot easier to present the case that "this is a bad guy, a bad family, a bad environment for the child".

Here is the link to the actual "militia" from which he is associated. These guys are much more radical than the Oathkeepers.

Sons Of Liberty Riders / John C. Irish's Page

reply to post by nenothtu


I can't see the video from work, but it claims to be about John Irish's criminal record. The original articles have been edited and reposted so much that it is hard to remember what I read, but it named several violent encounters with the police, previous weapons charges, court-ordered anger counseling, and the fact that both police and hospital staff were familiar with the family and its history.

I will look for more articles outlining it.

reply to post by getreadyalready


The mentioning of Oath Keepers may have been in error but the have yet to correct it.

Once you get on the LEO's radar where I live it's hell to get it cleared up.

I know first hand back in 1998 I had all my guns stolen by local LE. They claimed I was running drugs.

They used my dad's conviction to come after me. If I had not had a relitive in the FBI I would have never gotten it cleared up or my guns back.

Cops do Lie.

I have to recant an earlier statement I made. Jonathan Irish IS summoned to court in the case, but on a separate summons from Ms. Taylor. He's still the only one with allegations of neglect against him that I can find.

reply to post by nenothtu




Pich Forks .... I love it.

H&K makes mine!

You can never have a good party with out all your like minded friends!

reply to post by SWCCFAN


No doubt! I am a big fan of Oathkeepers, and not a big fan of government. Especially BIG government, and nanny state politics. I hate 2/3rds of the laws we have on the books, and I believe the police ROUTINELY overstep their bounds.

I am only arguing this specific case, because this seems like the state took appropriate action, and had they not stepped in with obvious concerns, we would all be railing against their in action.

Here are some quotes from his neighbors, including the one that called in the original complaint when he beat the other boys
:

507.Do you people really think that the state just jumps in randomly on this kind of thing?

Really?

Have any of you had your kids taken for being involved in Oath Keepers? No?

I didn’t think so.

Irish beats Stephanie. They might appear in this video like a cute couple, but that’s because they’re a couple of social degenerates who act that way.

By the way, they also live off of welfare. Good, upstanding Founding Fathers types, eh?

Last year, they lost custody of Stephanie’s other two kids because Irish beat them. Not spanking, mind you. I’m talking about a slap that I heard from across the street, and a red mark on a 2-year-old’s face that had the plain outline of his hand.

She claimed that the 1-year-old did it. Then she claimed that he slipped and hit a doorknob. Any fool could line it up to Irish’s hand.

The state took the boys away, and I doubt they’re ever coming back. I pray that they don’t.

You want to know why the state took the baby?

The baby’s life was in danger. Not because her parents have anything to do with OK. Not for politics. Not because of his Second Amendment rights. Because John Irish is a mean, violent, abusive, criminal son of a bitch.

Defend him if you want. When more of this story comes out, you’ll look like fools who leap to conclusions.

Maybe OK shouldn’t have been listed in the affidavit. Fine. But while your panties are in a knot over that, there’s a real baby whose life is in real danger because her bio-father is a real lunatic.

I hope never to see her in this neighborhood.

Comment by Irish's Neighbor — October 9, 2010

527.The other two children were taken away last year, right after the beating that I heard. And reported.

To my knowledge, the state wasn’t involved with them, despite his criminal record, before that. I can’t swear to it, since I don’t know all the details of his life, but I sure didn’t see cops patrolling all the time, and they had the kids until last year. No one was interfering with their rights.

But when he beat the boys, the state stepped in.

This one couldn’t be taken until she was born. I’m glad that they didn’t wait until Irish had a bad trip and killed her to act.

Not sure how that’s fishy … I mean, did you want them to take the baby BEFORE she was born?

Comment by Irish's Neighbor

HAMPTON - A Winnacunnet High School student was accused of making violent threats against the school and was being held in jail without bail.

Jonathan Irish, 17, of Seabrook, who was to begin his senior year Wednesday, is charged with criminal threatening.

Court records say Irish told another teenager he was "going to bring guns to school, hide them in the woods and bathrooms, and kill anyone he wanted."

According to the arrest warrant, the other teen believed what she was being told and "feared for her life."

District Court Judge Francis Frasier ordered Irish held without bail at the Rockingham County jail, pending a psychiatric evaluation to help determine if he is a threat to himself or others.

Asked if he thought Irish is a threat to the community or himself, police Sgt. Jim Jiguere said, "That’s why he’s being held on no bail."

Irish will appear next in court on Sept. 24.

Police did not disclose whether any weapon was found.

Irish’s mother would only acknowledge that her son was arrested.

Winnacunnet High School Principal Ruth Leveille said a letter was sent to parents Friday, telling them about the situation.

Ashley Stoddard, of North Hampton, a 15-year-old Winnacunnet sophomore and a friend of Irish, said she was "very surprised" to learn of the arrest.

Stoddard said Irish looked "so scared" during his court appearance, and she called it "the saddest thing I ever saw."

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Here is the link to the actual "militia" from which he is associated. These guys are much more radical than the Oathkeepers.

Sons Of Liberty Riders / John C. Irish's Page

Here's their mission statement from that page:

"Sons Of Liberty is a NON-violent, law abiding gathering of like minded Patriots. We stand united AGAINST ANY acts of violence or illegal activity The Sons of Liberty Riders does not endorse or tolerate radical, extreme, violent or racial postings. There are sites on the Internet where these beliefs are welcome; this is not one of them."

Frakkin' radicals! Non-violent indeed!

If they came for my kids, I'd just poke flowers into their gun barrels. That would teach 'em!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I can't see the video from work, but it claims to be about John Irish's criminal record. The original articles have been edited and reposted so much that it is hard to remember what I read, but it named several violent encounters with the police, previous weapons charges, court-ordered anger counseling, and the fact that both police and hospital staff were familiar with the family and its history.

I will look for more articles outlining it.

I believe you'll find that all of the "original articles" just rehash and speculate on the charges levelled in the affidavit and court order. I've yet to find anything prior, but am still digging. No linkage yet to the events that are alleged to have led TO this fiasco.

reply to post by nenothtu


That is what I read when I joined the group, and then I began to get their radio shows and read the articles and rants on their webpages, and believe me, people on ATS have been banned for far, far less inciteful language. SOLR may be "non-violent" by the letter of the law at this moment in time, but they are the opposite of OathKeeper's in the overall scale of militia groups!

reply to post by nenothtu


Don't overlook this important part of his history, because I put too much into one post!! This is a known violent man that has had problems with threats, violence, and guns his whole life since highschool! His neighbors are afraid of him. He is "well-known" to the police and hospital staff. He has refused the court order to get anger counseling. He has outstanding weapons charges at this very time. Etc., Etc.

Jonathan Irish, 17, of Seabrook, who was to begin his senior year Wednesday, is charged with criminal threatening.

Court records say Irish told another teenager he was "going to bring guns to school, hide them in the woods and bathrooms, and kill anyone he wanted."

According to the arrest warrant, the other teen believed what she was being told and "feared for her life."

District Court Judge Francis Frasier ordered Irish held without bail at the Rockingham County jail, pending a psychiatric evaluation to help determine if he is a threat to himself or others.

Asked if he thought Irish is a threat to the community or himself, police Sgt. Jim Jiguere said, "That’s why he’s being held on no bail."