At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

!!!MUSLIM EXTREMISTS!!! OH NO!!!!!!!
isnt that what everyone said after oklahoma?
How come there were no mass raids on the militias after they found out about Mcveigh?
divide and conquer, thats the name of the game.
You fail to realize poor people all over the world are in the same boat. You have much more in common with lil muhammed from pakistan than you do with lil mccain from america. do your blue eyes really make you that different? does your christian religion from the middle east really differ from his muslim religion from the middle east? jesus was a palestinian. he was brown. his religion was judaism. do any of you seriously examine those things you believe? think deeper. realize that a few people with massive resources and media control can have you believe anything they want you to. it would be absurd if those who had the resources did not manipulate the public opinion. deny ignorance. i guess bush and brown and root and diebold really didnt know anything about 9-11. how good for their pockets that stroke of chance was! they made so much money off of what those evil heathens who hate our freedoms did. there is no coincidence. sorry for the sarcasm everyone but lets deny ignorance.
this was either some type of military intelligence agency or an example of the hegelian dialectic (false flag in laymans parlance). i wonder what laws restricting your liberties will be passed after this one.
obama mccain
good cop bad cop
same police force
both related to count dracula(look it up its true!)

reply to post by imitator


If he were with a head wound, or too combative to treat as an incoming trauma, it is common practice to paralize the patient and intubate them. If there is a head injury, it is common practice to keep the patient on a paralitic such as propofol to reduce stimulation to prevent brain swelling and pressure.

From what I was able to gather, he is in a drug induced coma for the time being, but the reasons are only guesses until they state otherwise.

Mr Hassan (given his actions, he does not deserve the respect accorded to rank, and I will not refer to him by any such) was, according to relatives, a lifelong practicing muslim. Apparently, some event or events fairly recently caused him to become increasingly radicalized. It's only been within the last while, for example, that he began wearing the full regalia. In his application to search for a wife, he specified to the imam that she "wear the hijab", and have other fundamentalist qualities. No qualifying wife could be found for him, given the strictures he applied.

There's little doubt that he was insane, at least in my mind, and no doubt at all that his religion figured into the attack. The only thing in question, at least in this thread, is whether that religion was the CAUSE of his actions, or a convenient EXCUSE for them, some way for him to justify it in his own mind. Obviously, he was afraid to go overseas, but equally obviously, a fear of getting killed was not the cause of that. Otherwise, he'd have never gone on the attack at a military facility.

PTSD is not a factor, whatever they tell you. He had never been in combat.

The attack was premeditated, given the fact that he was giving away his belongings a day or two before the attack (a common indicator of impending suicide), and not just a sudden snap. Even though it was premeditated, it wasn't very well planned out, or he would have been capable of far more damage, and it would not have ended so quickly.

His computer is undergoing analysis right now, to attempt to shed more light on the attack, and possible motivations. The tracks one leaves on the internet are not the only tracks of interest in such an investigation. There is also the consideration of websites visited, and how frequently, and materials downloaded FROM the internet.

The primary weapon they are saying was used in the attack is here: FN Five-seveN. In addition, he is reported to have carried a .357 magnum revolver (neither a high capacity weapon nor a good choice to go on a rampage with) which is being analyzed to determine if it was actually used in the attack, or merely present. The FN sidearm is a high-dollar piece of equipment, and high powered for a handgun. it fires a 5.7 millimeter projectile from a 28mm "bottlenecked" case. That puts a lot of powder behind a relatively small projectile, making for a high velocity round. In comparison, an M-16 is 5.56mm in a 45mm case, and the standard 9mm Parabellum is a 9mm projectile in a 19 mm case. The round his primary weapon fired was closer to an M-16 that a 9mm.

At least one report says he purchased it at a gun show, but others say he bought it at a gun store in Killeen, and the feds have paid a visit to that store with specific questions. The owner recalls seeing Mr. Hassan, and recognized him from a picture, but I don't know what he sold to him.

I'm sure the anti-gun crowd will clamor for more gun control in light of this and the attack in Florida. They seem to use any crisis they can as a rallying cry, but banning guns over this makes as much sense to me as banning islam. Both were tools he used, but neither was capable of pulling the trigger. That responsibility resides solely with Mr. Hassan.

That's all I've been able to gather so far. It's enough to begin a framework, but not enough to be conclusive. I'm sure there will be more to come, but it's up to the individual to evaluate what else comes out, and see if it can be fit into a framework or not.

Things are not always as they appear.

Edit to add: I can't discount the stories emerging through the grapevine concerning multiple attack points. The people reporting them are for the most part trained and experienced professionals. They know what gunfire sounds like, and while they may be off a caliber or two regarding the identity of a weapon by sound, they're not going to mistake a police siren for an attack by firearm, or anything like that. Some of those reports are first-hand, right in this thread, and I would recommend saving them locally, to preclude an internet scrub during the cleanup and damage control. They also need to be taken into account in any working theories of the assault. As I said above, things are not always as they appear. I don't believe it was any sort of "intelligence agency" or false flag operation, based on what has surfaced so far, But there is sure as hell SOMETHING fishy about it.

[edit on 2009/11/7 by nenothtu]

reply to post by Trexter Ziam


I found it on another site I go to. Probably nothing, since there was about 250 people on that committee.

I have stated a time or two that we have been warned, on more than one occasion. Think what you will about Osama Bin Laden, but the simple fact is, he explained who, what, where, when, and why. He left it up to the American people to listen and to understand, and they have failed.

Regardless of how you feel about him, he spoke the truth about Islam, and how it would, has, and will continue to affect the US. Like it or not.

If you have any doubts, google his speeches, google his quotes. It is all right there for anyone to see.

Please do understand that reading him, and gleaning an understanding from him does not support him, but it can surely guide the many that question, "What is happening in this world?"

No one can guide you but you, and it is up to each person to read and to study, and to set emotions aside. To set PC aside. To realize the truth when it hits you in the face.

This administration, like so many before, is deceiving you. You have a president that grew up as a muslim (lets not argue that point, he admits on video), and expect him to admit this is Islam related? Of course he is going to vote not present for this.

Just as Obama "inspired" the feeling of hope and change, do you not understand Osama Bin Laden inspired many? Simply because you hate him doesn't devalue him in the eyes of believers and followers.

Regardless, there is a reason they call them sleepers. This guy was a sleeper, it is as plain as the nose on your faces. They do not have to be a part of an organized system to heed the call of duty to Islam, as each one sees it as a personal calling. Read Nidal's own words.


Bin Laden: Goal is to bankrupt U.S.

As part of the "bleed-until-bankruptcy plan," bin Laden cited a British estimate that it cost al Qaeda about $500,000 to carry out the attacks of September 11, 2001, an amount that he said paled in comparison with the costs incurred by the United States.

"Every dollar of al Qaeda defeated a million dollars, by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs," he said. "As for the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

The total U.S. national debt is more than $7 trillion. The U.S. federal deficit was $413 billion in 2004, according to the Treasury Department.

"It is true that this shows that al Qaeda has gained, but on the other hand it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something that anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced.

"And it all shows that the real loser is you," he said. "It is the American people and their economy."

www.cnn.com...

reply to post by whatukno


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Funny, too, if you view the source for the page, you can see messages that have been sent that do not appear in the comments section. Private messages? Interesting.

Originally posted by Libertygal

Please do understand that reading him, and gleaning an understanding from him does not support him, but it can surely guide the many that question, "What is happening in this world?"

Absolutely so. Anyone who fails to study and understand their enemy is bound for failure in dealing with them. I have all of bin Laden's and al-Zawahiri's speeches and writings I can find. If you want to know what your opponent thinks, he'll frequently tell you if you just listen, and analyze a bit.

Likewise, I frequent a number of jihadist websites, so that I can keep a finger on their pulse, and keep up with what is being said in that community.

"So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss." - Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.

I'm still having trouble applying jihadist events to the entirety of islam, because that's not what I see on the ground. In other words, jihadists are islamic, but not all muslims are jihadists.

In the specific case of Mr. Hassan, I can't yet identify him as a "sleeper agent", because he doesn't at all fit the classic definition of one. Sleepers are put in place by an organization, sometimes years in advance, under deep cover. They may be activated at any time, or may NEVER be activated. They're more of a contingency plan. They will go to great lengths to avoid any association with the emplacing organization, as that would compromise their mission. It's useless to activate a sleeper who is under surveillance because he has been associated with an enemy.

Mr Hassan had done SEVERAL things recently which brought him under suspicion, and he was already under surveillance, just not very effective surveillance. They were watching, but not closely enough.

reply to post by nenothtu



An installed sleeper? Not so much, but perhaps a self made one.

That's the thing, most of the attackers operate under the umbrella of Islam, but for their own personal reasons to justify. That's part of what makes it so dangerous IMO, because you are totally unable to predict who's next.

It is an impossible war to fight in that respect, and why so many are quick to cast all Muslims under one light. You never know the time nor the place nor the trigger. Who will or won't, and it understandably evokes fear, and can therefore be labeled a form of "terrorism".

To some, it is better to cast them all out, because of the inability to determine who is or isn't, who will or won't. For many, it is so hard to put a finger directly on the pulse, so to speak. Because of this inability, I believe it then becomes easier to just dismiss it.

I simply think people misunderstand their own responses, sometimes. And sometimes, words can be mixed up and lose some meaning.


Not my intent with "sleeper", it was more a play on words.

why doesn't anyone research bin ladens cia connections? or his family living in virginia now? or his families business ties with the bush's? if you think for a second bin ladens rhetoric is representative of islam then you've been duped. most of the muslim world can't stand bin laden because of the bs he's caused them. oh and bin laden is not even an arabic name. bin laden would mean son of laden in arabic. arabic culture uses the prefix abu- father of, not bin or ibn- son of. but guess who does? does "ben gurion" sound familiar? ben/bin same prefix.
divide and conquer guys. wake up. house slave/field slave. truly look at the implications. do you think for a moment bush, obama or mccain stops and actually prays to the same god as you? much has been said of obama's african lineage- research his caucasian lineage. dick cheney is his ninth cousin! imagine the family re-unions! once again, lets move past the ideas formulated for us and have some thoughts of our own after thorough research. stop regurgitating the pap the msm has fed you! deny that ignorance. this is bigger than any of us think. that rabbit hole goes deeeeep.

I see we still have reports about other shooters running around,it seems the investigators are doing their best to make this into a lone gunman scenario and use the tried and true method of telling the media and everyone else that the witnesses were mistaken.Then they sit back and wonder why these conspiracy theories never seem to go away.

[edit on 013030p://4926 by mike dangerously]

I'm going to take a different turn here than I usually do because this tragic event has caused me more pause than any terror event since 9/11. Before it came to light that Nidal Hasan is in fact what we would deem a "militant islamic radical" I argued against those who accused him of such simply because he is a Muslim - or more specifically, because his last name looked middle eastern. I countered that such statments were fear based and were at least ignorant and at most - prejudiced.

You see, I earned my second bachelors in religious studies and as I have come to learn, the religion of Islam that I was taught was indeed the rosy happy version. I fought and fought and fought against the detractors of Islam because I knew from having been taught and having read islamic scripture through the lens of the views that I was taught that Islam was a religion of peace.

Well, I don't believe that to be the case anymore and I feel almost ashamed that I was once able to defend Islam with such apparent...ignorance. We can't judge political, religious idelologies based on what they once were - we have to judge them by what they represent now. And Islam, as it has become apparent to me, is no longer a religion of peace.. So, I have to ask now - if indeed Islam ever was a religion of peace (Sufis excepted here), when will those who wish to revist that peace take a stand? It took Martin Luther one second to nail his 95 thesis to the door of the All Saint's Church and only 100 years to acomplish the reformation (for better or worse.)

But wouldn't any improvement be better than what's happening now? I know not all Muslims are terrorists but I've seen so little outrage expressed by these everyday ordinary Muslims that I have to ask - are they outraged at all? Where is your outrage? It seems, as has been discussed frequently here that, that the entireity of Islam flew into a hysterical fit over a cartoon depiction of Muhammad - did they not demand the death of that artist? Where is their outrage when their radical brothers and sisters kill themselves and non-muslims without mercy - everyday? Have these acts of terror become so commonplace that they cannot care anymore? Where was the collective outrage of these peace loving Muslims on September 11th 2001? If there was indeed any, I've seen none of it! And if there be peace loving Muslims here who will live beside me then let them speak now!

I tell you now my friends, if you do not act right now to change the course of your religion- it will surely end you - and it very well may end the rest of us too! I call you all - Muslims of peace to REFORM YOUR RELIGION and declare jihad agianst hatred and prejudice, a jihad against war. I know the Christians don't have it all figured out - God knows they don't and they know it. But at this point - they're leaps and bounds ahead of you guys...and those are words I never thought I'd say. That's all I've got.

[edit on 11/7/09 by WickedStar]

Special News Update

Gun shot victims from Fort Hood are in stable condition today at Scott & White Healthcare. 10 people were transported to Scott & White Memorial Hospital in Temple yesterday after a shooting incident at the base.

For some much needed good news... It is good to see yet another example of communities pulling together and individuals doing what they can do when tragedy occurs... many times, we have all been witness to this and despite our differences, "we" pull together when we need to...

...10 victims of the Ft. Hood tragedy were transported to Scott & White Hospital in Temple, TX. In the hours that followed, the hospital was flooded with volunteers ready to donate blood or do whatever they could to help.

We would like to thank the hundreds of volunteers who have waited between 30 minutes and four hours for the opportunity to donate blood. Some committed volunteers drove from as far away as Dallas, Houston and Cross Plains for their chance to help. Local businesses have donated food, beverages and their time to assist personnel and volunteers. We are grateful for their partnership as well.

hosp. blog

[edit on 7-11-2009 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by siahchi


Of course arabic last names include the "son of" prefix. Bin and Ibn are used by Arabs in their surnames.

okay, my last post on this topic. a little backround may be in order. i'm not muslim, im not christian.... nor jewish or any abrahamic faith. muslims have indeed spoken out fervantly against bin laden and his ilk. on good morning america no less! however, to expect the msm to dwell on that instead of fear mongering is too much. just as angry and confused as americans are with islam, so are muslims angry and confused with america and the anglo saxon world in general(not christianity). cnn and aljazeera are two sides of the same coin. brother is being pitted against brother, nation against nation. most peoples views are a reflection of WHERE they were born. the rulers of europe carved the world into the territories we now know at their discretion as they saw fit. through patriotic brainwashing they led regular europeans into carrying out this dirty work. the entire non-white world from american indian to chinese, aborigene to arab is and has been pissed. this is political, not religious. and those of european descent who realize that they've been used as cannon fodder by their own governmaents are just as pissed. so here we are, everyone hating and distrusting each other. power in numbers! wherever two or more are gathered in my name! this is what those who control us are most afraid of. regular palestinians and isrealis coming together. an honest discussion and reconciliation between african and european in america. or indian and european in america. or chinese and japanese. as long as we are so divided, we will never have power. there is no such thing as america or belgium or cambodia to those who have the power. only us- the human batteries that power their monstrous machine. stop, take a deep breath, and really ask yourself if this fear and hatred is really what you want. or are there bridges that need to be built? why dont regular americans denounce the regular and systematic killings of people in the middle east? anytime you are ready to make a judgement, please stop and put the shoe on the other foot. if these people are your enemy try to understand their motivations then. when colombine happened, did anyone start spouting off about heavy metal extremism? yet both those kids and this guy both opened fire after being teased one too many times. do we create our own demons? if he really hated america then why join the armed forces of america? we are all in the same boat as humanity together. if we cant put aside cultural differences and see the true value of each and every human being we are all doomed. STOP BEING JUDGE, JURY AND EXECUTIONER! unplug from the mainstream media and read some books. talk to your neighbors, invite them to dinner! if we dont stand together as brothers we will die together as fools. someone got a plan for the whole world and it isnt a bearded guy on kidney dialysis in a cave. although he does work for them.as does bush mccain obama pelosi rumsfeld karzai neteyahu jintao and all the rest. you dont even know the names of the real people who pull the strings. politics is a puppet show to keep us entertained. the things we see happen are planned behind closed doors way before we think we see the debate. obama was gonna win since his first speech at the dnc. a no name from chicago suddenly catapulted to rockstar status virtually overnight only to take the presidency as the first of african descent? give me a break! if obama didnt win we would have had civil war, even the right was sick of bush. and mccain wouldve been bush 2 in most peoples minds. obamas election is akin to turning down boiling water a bit so it doesnt boil over. mind you we are still boiling, just not as violently. i reiterate: stand together as brothers or die together as fools! power in numbers. dont trust the media! and do not let them divide and conquer. in this country the family is being destroyed. old against young, brother against sister, husband against wife. by the media and the archetypes the media has designed for us, becau

because the family is the first unit of power. see the methodology employed by the ruling class time and again throughout history for what it is. the tactics never change, just the details and intensity.

Originally posted by siahchi
why doesn't anyone research bin ladens cia connections?

Because there are none. It's a waste of time.

or his family living in virginia now?

Really? the US has immigrants? Who'da thunk it?

if you think for a second bin ladens rhetoric is representative of islam then you've been duped. most of the muslim world can't stand bin laden because of the bs he's caused them.

Something we can agree on.

oh and bin laden is not even an arabic name. bin laden would mean son of laden in arabic. arabic culture uses the prefix abu- father of, not bin or ibn- son of. but guess who does? does "ben gurion" sound familiar? ben/bin same prefix.

Baloney. Does ibn Saud ring any bells? Are you saying the house of Saud is jewish?

much has been said of obama's african lineage- research his caucasian lineage. dick cheney is his ninth cousin! imagine the family re-unions!

Really? Ninth cousins? that close, huh? MY GOD! It's a family affair! I'm ninth cousin to Mel Gibson. Think he'd float me a loan?

once again, lets move past the ideas formulated for us and have some thoughts of our own after thorough research. stop regurgitating the pap the msm has fed you! deny that ignorance. this is bigger than any of us think. that rabbit hole goes deeeeep.

Are you listening to yourself? The reason I ask is because I've heard the pap you're regurgitating somewhere before...

oh, personal attacks. how evolved. and there are those who would say the sauds ARE jewish but who cares. the prefix ibn IS exceedingly rare in arabic culture. i was trying to show a possible link between intelligence agencies with that one. you may think nothing of bin ladens living thirty miles outside langley, va, but i find that suspicious. i also know that all humans are related to each other, however, when the british royals, the bushes, brad pit, obama, marilyn monroe and cheney are relativly closely related to vlad the impaler(dracula) i find pause in that. it seems by your attack ive struck a nerve. perhaps, good people of ats, some would not like me to share my unorthodox opinion with you all. perhaps its classified? i have not personally attacked any of the the opinions youve expressed, i would suggest you refrain from doing so as well. wanna argue? go on the bill o'reilly show. my main point is we need to come together as humanity to make each day better than the last and a better world for our children. back to the point. a tragedy has happened , folks. through education we may be able to prevent the same thing happening again. through love and understanding of all humanity we can heal the wounds inflicted by those who dont have humanities best interest at heart. bin laden received training and weapons from the us when he was fighting the russians. thats a fact. mr. disinfo.... i hope they pay you enough to fill that void in your soul

btw in arabic grammer, each word or name always has a stessed (long) syllable. the name laden has no long syllable, two short ones (short a, short e/i) indicative of foriegn (to arabic) Origin.
this is as plain to anyone who knows arabic as the hiragana katakana alphabets of japan are to japanese speakers (in japanese there are two scripts, one for native japanese words and one for foreign words)

[edit on 7-11-2009 by siahchi]

dont you think we could rehabilitate hasan and bring him back into the community only to do good again maybe we could get a new shrink to shrink the shrink i think we need to see how his body could stand the same lead that he gave to 13 other people but thats just me just wondering

Originally posted by siahchi
muslims have indeed spoken out fervantly against bin laden and his ilk. on good morning america no less!

Stop right there. This is not even close to true. The inevitable lip-service is given in public forums particularly for Western audiences. Bin Laden was and still is exceptionally revered throughout the Muslim world. First for his involvement with the mujahadin in Afghanistan repelling Russian forces. Later for his assaults on the West culminating with 9/11.

Though he may have hidden out in a caves after the event, he was from an extremely wealthy family traveled worldwide, even to London, and oversaw a well funded sophisticated operation planning and successfully executing the destruction of major American targets with hijacked planes.

He is an almost mythical figure to half a billion downtrodden Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere. Their first modern hero.


M

Originally posted by siahchi
!!!MUSLIM EXTREMISTS!!! OH NO!!!!!!!
isnt that what everyone said after oklahoma?
How come there were no mass raids on the militias after they found out about Mcveigh?
divide and conquer, thats the name of the game.
You fail to realize poor people all over the world are in the same boat. You have much more in common with lil muhammed from pakistan than you do with lil mccain from america. do your blue eyes really make you that different? does your christian religion from the middle east really differ from his muslim religion from the middle east? jesus was a palestinian. he was brown. his religion was judaism. do any of you seriously examine those things you believe? think deeper. realize that a few people with massive resources and media control can have you believe anything they want you to. it would be absurd if those who had the resources did not manipulate the public opinion. deny ignorance. i guess bush and brown and root and diebold really didnt know anything about 9-11. how good for their pockets that stroke of chance was! they made so much money off of what those evil heathens who hate our freedoms did. there is no coincidence. sorry for the sarcasm everyone but lets deny ignorance.
this was either some type of military intelligence agency or an example of the hegelian dialectic (false flag in laymans parlance). i wonder what laws restricting your liberties will be passed after this one.
obama mccain
good cop bad cop
same police force
both related to count dracula(look it up its true!)

how very racist, the attack was not by a "blue eyed christian", perhaps you should direct your comments to a "brown eyed muslim" who extinguished the lives of his fellow man