At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by unicorn1

 

Very simply explained in the term: fard ayn.
Like the boxer Muhammed Ali, this guy is not allowed to fight other muslims. And he can use any means necessary to not fight other muslims according to Islamic law.
Muslims go by Islamic law above and beyond American Law or anything else.

I wonder if the Jewish "Extremist" who assissinated Yitzhak Rabin Israel's Prime Minister, on November 4th 1995, was taking part in 'fard ayn'?

No he was just murderously mad that Rabin wanted to make peace with the Palestinians.

He felt G-d had given the Jews the land that the Palestinians had been living on for 2,000 years and that Rabin didn't have the right to condone them still doing so.

The Jewish "Extremist" who killed this peace loving man for 'religious' purposes wasn't a 'terrorist' you see, or even a 'murderer', or even 'deranged', he was just an 'extremist'.

Some people sure do suffer from the 'word games' that government and media propaganda agents love to play for political reasons.

That particular cold blooded murderer that killed Rabin was just a bit 'extreme' you see, because a powerful Zionist faction in the Middle East really doesn't want peace.

You have to wonder that a group that is so powerful who can have the Encyclopedia Britannica refer to an assassin of a head of state as simply being 'extreme' what other 'extreme' measures would they take to get their collective desire to savage and ravage and ween the Muslim population of the area they inserted themselves violently into to birth a nation where killing it's lawfully elected leader is just 'extreme' when that lawfully elected leader wants peace with the Muslims and not war.

Of course the Talmud tells Jews that all Gentiles are inferior slaves and it also tells them it's alright to murder non-Jews as long as they don't do it themselves.

Of course that's nothing like Islam you see, the Talmud is just a bit 'extreme' in how it promotes the concept of religious superiority of Jews and inferiority of non-Jews and condones murder as long as you pay someone who isn't a Jew to do it or trick someone who isn't a Jew into doing it.

That's not terrorism that's just 'extreme'. Thankfully the Jews don't actually read or pay attention to their own Holy Books only Muslims do that.

Some would say that just a few 'extreme' Muslims do that, while other's suffering from the manipulation of 'word games' imagine that the entire Muslim World has dedicated itself to a few 'extreme' passages in a religious book that just like Christian and Jewish religious books have 'extreme' passages.

I recall one Religious Book that states : Blessed are the Peace Makers.

Not in some countries where 'extremists' mow them down.

Blatant manipulation by government and media through word games ranks right up there with 'extreme' passages in religious books in my humble opinion.

We are getting blow back from allowing ourselves to be manipulated into conducting 'extremely flawed' foreign policy. That has nothing to do with the Quran and everything to do with corrupt politicians beholden to powerful foreign lobbying interests on Capitol Hill most specifically by a nation who's views on 'extreme' are quite dubious.

About as dubious as the paranoid belief that Muslims are out to take over the world.





[edit on 7/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by unicorn1


What you were saying is not racist, it's bigoted, but not racist. Those of us that work around Muslims know this all to be a big bunch of Bull poo.

Extremists do think the way you describe, but not real Muslims. Real Muslims don't hate America. Real Muslims don't feel that anyone who doesn't believe in Islam should die. In fact they won't try and convert you, Islam does not allow for preaching to people who don't believe. They will answer questions a non believer has. But true Muslims have no desire to commit terrorist acts, have no hatred towards the west. In fact are pleasant people I have personally found.

A good friend of mine is named Mohamed, I call him Mo Man. We tell each other dirty jokes, hang out, I have even baby sat his kid. I'm not Muslim, not even Arabic, I am Pagan. He doesn't have any problem with that, and very rarely does religion pop up in our conversations.

As far as this:

As a result of this incident, the authorities have little choice but to look at all Muslim conscripts.

Um, hate to clue you in, but the US military has absolutely no conscripts of any type in it's ranks. It's an all volunteer military. But I do think that your right in a sense. The US military does need to take a close look at all Muslims within it's ranks. This is true. Right now Muslims are very important to the US war effort in the Middle East. They not only translate, but are effective in cross culture operations. We need these brave people of Muslim faith within our ranks. I do feel that being politically correct in this society has gone well beyond what is reasonable. I agree with you that people of faith. (any faith) need to be examined. Extremism does exist in all faiths. So yes in that sense I agree with you.

This guy, clearly was a nutjob. Whether or not his actions were due to extremism is not clear yet. There is one report that he exclaimed "Allah Akbar" (God is Great) before he opened fire, but without an audio recording, I have my doubts that he said such a thing.

I think the whole Muslim angle to this story is being way overblown. It's not clear yet why this guy did this. He could just very well been an average run of the mill nutcase. And not the extremist Muslim terrorist who infiltrated the ranks of the military to gain the rank of Major in order to blow away a lot of people.

My take on this is that this guy was clearly troubled. He had a lot of career problems going on. He not only had the bigoted people to contend with, he apparently wasn't that great of a psychologist (obviously). Even being lonely may have contributed. He had one bad review from his time at Walter Reed.

There is a lot of facts we still don't know. All we know is that 13 brave young people that volunteered for duty overseas are now dead due to the actions of one man. We have a suspect in custody which is good because we will know what the motive was for sure.

Why he did this is still unknown. Everything up to this point is speculation. It really is. Just because this man is Muslim doesn't mean that extremism had any bearing on his actions. It could very well be that he didn't want to go to the middle east into a combat situation. Frankly if that is the case I could agree with him. I wouldn't want to go to the middle east. I wouldn't blow away a bunch of young men and women to get out of it. But I wouldn't want to go to the middle east.

[edit on 11/7/2009 by whatukno]

Originally posted by spy66

God..... People dont even know what weapon the Man used. And we are supposed top believe all this crap. The story goes from 2 shooters to 3. And then from 3 to only one. In the beginning he used a M-16 and now its handguns.

Right!!! this is just great news to believe in.

Does it really matter? I agree, it shows that an event will snowball into nonsense after the fact. That's why epistemology is important.
The origin of this event comes from Islamic theology. This event will happen again and again as it already has.

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by spy66

The origin of this event comes from Islamic theology. This event will happen again and again as it already has.

Does that mean when kids in US go shooting in their schools killing dozens, their motivation to do this comes from christian theology?

Originally posted by merkava

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by spy66

The origin of this event comes from Islamic theology. This event will happen again and again as it already has.

Does that mean when kids in US go shooting in their schools killing dozens, their motivation to do this comes from christian theology?

No because Christianity doesn't tell them to do so. Yet muslims are faced daily with hate against non-muslims because it's part of their religion and widely communicated.

Comparing criminals from other cultures is an inaccurate assumption to come up with rationalization.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yeah, let's compare history for the answer. heh.
Instead how about we educate about fard ayn and what that motivation is and how strong it is so we can stop these kinds of attacks in the future?

Or do you want more of these kinds of attacks?

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Yeah, let's compare history for the answer. heh.
Instead how about we educate about fard ayn and what that motivation is and how strong it is so we can stop these kinds of attacks in the future?

Or do you want more of these kinds of attacks?

These attacks are caused by a lopsided foreign policy and you would do better to educate yourself and others on the real politics that go into religion being exploited for political and economic gain.

The reality is if we weren't in the Middle East taking sides in hypocritical ways we wouldn't have any enemies in the Middle East.

Costa Rica is a predominately Christian Chatholic Nation with no standing army and there are no 'radical Jihadists' there killing anyone.

Why? They haven't made any enemies in the Middle East by conducting lopsided and hypocritical foreign policy. We can turn a blind eye to Israel's and Saudi Arabia's human rights violations and terrorist actions but we often come down like a ton of bricks on other nations on behalf of Israel and Saudi Arabia's human rights violations and punish those nations it's politically expedient and economically advantageous to the Military Industrial Complex and powerful AIPAC Lobby to do so.

Are you really so wrapped up in your own religious zealotry that you can't see how people would not just take exception to that deadly behavior on our part, but respond to it in deadly ways?

What exactly is the difference between wrapping yourself in a flag for the purpose of murder and theft and wrapping yourself in a holy book?

President Bush barely bothered to hide that he was conducting a 'Holy War' in Afghanistan and Iraq he insisted his daily briefing from the Pentagon have Bible Passages added to them and that certain offensive attacks be carried out on Biblically Significant Days. He even admitted publicly to "G-d telling him to attack Iraq when he was walking in the Rose Garden one day at the White House".

Your attempts to minimize and deflect away from the blowback of our tragiclly misguided foreign policy because of a religious book is something that invites disaster.

Christians every day are on these threads saying, oh this is a sign from the Bible, this is going to happen and that's going to happen, the Bible says so.

Please everyone's religion is part of the problem here, corrupt foreign policy is the big culprit though.

The reality is if you don't conduct hypocritical foreign policy that murders innocent people and pilages their lands they wouldn't look to their books for a source of inspiration in seeking revenge.

It's not that hard to figure out once you crawl out of the religious and word game trap that politicians and corporate moguls want both sides trapped in for the sake of their own power, greed and wealth.

reply to post by JJay55


Let us then look at this Fard Ayn

Your point?

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by spy66

God..... People dont even know what weapon the Man used. And we are supposed top believe all this crap. The story goes from 2 shooters to 3. And then from 3 to only one. In the beginning he used a M-16 and now its handguns.

Right!!! this is just great news to believe in.

The origin of this event comes from Islamic theology. This event will happen again and again as it already has.

This is where i dont agree. What you say here is a assumption based on his background.

The reason for this event could just as much have been. Soldier colleges harassing him for his Islamic background. Or by his change of appearance from normal American clothing to a Islamic robe.

I dont know if you have ever been to a camp with American soldiers. They pick on people for fun and amusement all the time. And the way they do this. Is some times just disgusting to watch.
When you make fun of peoples religion or the way the dress to a point where things go from humor to hate. Things like this can happen.

Why is it out of the question how Americans treat the different cultures that they have within their own ranks?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yeah, it's all America's fault. America sux. America is bad. America is evil. America is the worst thing ever invented. Let's hate America.
Good job dude.

reply to post by spy66

Yeah, Americans are bullies. America pushed him over the edge. America is at fault. America is evil. America sux. America makes people do bad things. America is responsible for making people evil. America is evil.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by JJay55

 

Let us then look at this Fard Ayn

Your point?

The point was for you to look at it in hope that you would understand Islamic principle instead of spreading more hate toward America.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

More hate America because America is evil. Any followers of America are evil. Americans are brainwashed and evil. America and their foreign policy is evil. America blah blah blah.

The muslim was following his Islamic belief and killed non-muslims. He wanted to be a martyr in heaven with 72 virgins but we brought him back to life to stand trial in the best f'ing country in the world - AMERICA.

reply to post by JJay55


Maybe you should educate us, cause from what I read it had nothing to do with hating non believers at all. What it had to do is with social responsibility and religious responsibility.

Nothing I read had any hate towards non believers in it.

Perhaps you can educate us on this?

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Yeah, it's all America's fault. America sux. America is bad. America is evil. America is the worst thing ever invented. Let's hate America.
Good job dude.

That's a cop out to be sure friend. American citizens don't decide it's foreign policy but ultimately we do have to be accountable for the politicians and corporations and lobby groups that do.

Our government acts on it's behalf in conducting massive give aways of Tax Payer funds to financially support and arm some nations who often engage in the very same bad human right's violations that we then turn around and attack other nations in that region whose greatest crime often is not playing ball with our biggest corporate interests the way that they want.

War is a racket and ultimately why we really go to war in places like Iraq and Afghanistan aren't for the reasons that are sold to the public.

The reality is we could have created a draft, put millions of unemployed young men into uniform and surged into Iraq and Afghanistan to defeat the regimes there and stepped back while providing a truly secure environment to the people who live in those places to then determine how they really want to live and under what kind of government.

We don't though, we go over there and smash and cripple their infrastructure, place incredible hardship on all the people for the actions of once again just a privelaged or dispicable few and then dictate to them how we expect them to live while passing around contracts to all the corporations our government favors to rebuild the infrastructure we destroyed. We charge that to the American Tax Payer and the corporations reap all of the profits with little of the investment and take a portion of that money to ensure the election of the politicians here in America that can make all that possible.

In the mean time the government sells it all to us on word games, clever coined words and phrases can turn a murdering religious zealot whose on the right side of the game per the corporate governments into just a 'extremist'. Or the same word games can turn a desperate dissafected person whose led a life full of injustice and trajedy visited upon them by our foreign policy into a 'Terrorist', incredibly even in their own nations where they are fighting against us as foreign agressors. They become terrorists and insurgents instead of the resistance or partisans or freedom fighters.

It's all just emotional manipulation through word games to either get Americans to endorse it or at least turn a blind eye to it.

That's not going to change until our foreign policy does and we get the Military Industrial Complex under control. These thinly veiled "religious crusades" sold as such to placate the slim Christian majority in America are bankrupting us and placing Americans increasingly in jeapordy.

We are in more jeapordy of powerful corporate and government interests trying to create justification for a war on terrorism by ensuring from time to time we are terrorized in some way, and mostly through word games.

In the meantime the Military Industrial Complex, and Oil Companies rake in the profits all courtesy of us and our inability to recognize that our media and government plays word games for a reason. A reason that is bankrupting our treasury while bestowing record profits to some select corporations often owned in large part by the same politicians and media moguls who manipulate us as preferred stock holders in these companies.

The extremist Muslims who actually are engaged in acts of revenge and wrap themselves in the Quran to do it are actually less that 1 percent of the 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet.

You want to condemn them all for that? After we rattle their gages and invade their homes and destroy them with bombs and bullets?

Wow! It's true the pen is mightier than the sword and that is why we are subjected to these word games to manipulate us emotionally into overlooking every common sense based fact.

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by spy66

 

Yeah, Americans are bullies. America pushed him over the edge. America is at fault. America is evil. America sux. America makes people do bad things. America is responsible for making people evil. America is evil.

Well by saying this you just neglect the fact that it might be so. It just doesn't suit your point of whew. Right!

A normal reaction of our own wrong doings is to blame it on something else. And what a great way to blame this guy on his background. Because from you point of whew. It is his Islamic background that killed 13 people.

So from your point of whew all Muslims and Islamic people are cold blooded killers. Right!
Or at least brought up to be cold blooded killers.

Ok, just something quick...

PLEASE PLEASE understand that this is in no way representative of all Muslims... I have a feeling dumbass sh*tz are gonna start targeting random Muslims living around Texas in retaliation for this nutjob's actions.

I'm not Muslim myself, but I have a bad feeling. SO PLEASE, lets start with you guys, notably the most-Republican, most-radical bunch of people. Understand that he is NOT representative of all Muslim-Americans, and that NO ONE should be targeted for this.

NO HATE. Please.

Originally posted by JJay55
Thread overrun by cherrypickers, anti-American sentiment and circular argument. heh.

Why don't you respond directly to ProtoplasmicTraveler and address each of his points instead of generalizing his post as anti-American sentiment.

[edit on 11/7/2009 by Finalized]