At Least 7 Dead, 12 Wounded in Shooting at Ft. Hood in Texas

Originally posted by JJay55

Look up fard ayn. Look up other homegrown Islamic terrorism attacks on US soil and the pattern is clear. Let's not get into circular arguments that don't educate the American public about Islamic terrorism and tell us clearly the dangers we face. This incident is one of many. This action will continue. Please support education and understand Islam and it's theology.

Yes, everyone, please do. After having done so, you will see precisely what a jumbled, skewed, irrational disservice JJ does to all with this one-size-fits-all mindset, this "kill 'em all and let allah sort 'em out" philosophy.

In particular, I've pointed out that fard al-ayn is NOT what JJ claims, roughly a million times so far, in just this thread. I shouldn't have to KEEP doing that.

Yes, please do look it up and educate yourselves. You too, JJ. Only then will you have a rational view of the real danger, the real enemy.

reply to post by nenothtu

This is how bin Laden and Al-Zawahiri can claim that they never harm innocents, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, and keep a straight face.

There really are no innocents except for Children. We are all guilty of at the very least turning a blind eye to the injustices of the world.

I have seen people commit violent acts over soccer and football teams.

Murderers are murder no matter in whose name they murder for or what purpose. Our here is someone else's war criminal. Our villian is someone else's hero.

Religion is something that many people do kill and kill over. All religions are guilty of it. So guilty I think it's rediculous to try to quantify who is more guilty and who is less guilty.

Whatever caused this man to commit these horrible alleged crimes speaks to this man's own dispicableness. I can assure you people of all faiths feel horrible for the victims of it.

I am just as sure there are some people who have taken satisfaction in it, but the majority of those who are, are likely doing so because of our foreign policy not because they view all Americans as infadels or want to impose Islam on the world.

I am sure that a small percentage of those people who might take delight in such a cowardly attack are inclined to want to impose Islam on the entire world by any means necessary.

I myself would like to end Country and Western Music and impose Rock and Roll on all the people of the world but I don't intend to ever attempt it or use violence to effect that change.

We have millions of Muslims living in America and the reality is that the vast majority of them lead peaceful law abiding lives, pay their taxes and practice their faiths like most people do of all faiths, as something personal and meaningful to them.

We have extremist groups here in America, the KKK and the Aryan Brother Hood have been known to murder people for their extreme views and sometimes even their extreme Christian views. We don't accept the notion of killing all White people though when a criminally minded murderer belonging to one of those groups kills for their extreme views.

We have radical Black Panthers who have killed innocent people before too. We don't accept the notion of killing all Black people or waging a war on them for it.

Fear, intolerance and hatred, bigotry and prejudice knows no religious, national, ethnic or sexual borders.

It's a disturbing and heart wrenching thing to be sure to see people's lives cut tragically short by such a horrendous act but the reality is when the imfamous Son of Sam tried to claim the Devil told him to commit his murderous crimes we didn't hold the Devil responsible but laughed and dismissed it for what it is a pitiful excuse to commit murder.

Fear, intolerance and hatred, bigotry and prejudice know no religious, national, ethnic or sexual borders.

Whether it's a Christian killing an abortion doctor in Cold Blood for their beliefs and how they interpret them, or a Muslim killing a Jew for their religious beliefs and how they interpret them, or a Jew killing a Muslim for their religious beliefs or a Sikh killing a Tamil for their religious beliefs or a Klu Klux Klan member killing a black for their racial beliefs, or a Black Panther killing a white for their religious beliefs they all represent the same thing: A extreme minority from within their own affiliated group and someone who believes violence is an answer.

Violence isn’t the answer, it never has been it never will be, and all it does is to breed more violence, in an endless cycle of revenge and retribution without end.

It says a lot about someone when they want to hold truly innocent non-affiliated and non-connected people responsible in mass for the crimes of one solitary man.

I don’t believe our founding fathers would have condoned or embraced since a questionable desire. In fact they thought the surest way to ruin our nation would be by taking sides in other nation’s disputes and foreign entanglements.

It’s very true that many people who live in Islamic countries have long been angry at America for its foreign policy.

Some of us here in America might be Christian but the reality is we represented a nation of many faiths and many people of no faith at all. Some of the people who reside here in America and have fought and died for it are Muslims.

The problem is our foreign policy not the religion of Christianity than only a small majority of Americans even practice.

Until we get back to our founding principles here in America we are going to continue to be embroiled in escalating violence, deepening poverty, and increasingly under suspicion from friends and foes alike around the world.

About the only real industry we have left is Military and Defense related Aerospace and cars. I think that says a lot
about what we have become as a nation and I think it says a lot about us as a people. We won World War II in less than 5 horrible years. That we are still in Afghanistan and Iraq spending billions of dollars on glittery toys to police an enemy we could have vanquished a long time ago if we really had a moral resolve and urgency says a lot.

Our military industrial complex is slowly bleeding us to death with its greed and corruption. We might not see it
our selves or have the courage to admit just what we are doing as a nation and why and to what end, but the rest of the world does.

This should be a wake up call to America if anything else, not a cause to export more violence but a cause to examine just what the violence we are exporting has wrought.

There is no excuse for this man’s alleged actions it’s a sad day for all of us as we grieve for those who died and are suffering directly as a result of them. Likewise though there is no excuse for holding an entire religion responsible for them either.

People need to reflect on what is happening to us as a nation. It wasn’t the Muslims who bankrupted our treasury and send our economy and way of life into a never ending downward spiral. That’s all on us. It will stay on us as long as we go tilting against windmills.

Hopefully calmer heads will prevail and we can learn some lessons for a change instead of trying to teach some lessons. Hopefully we will get all the facts and there will be a trial and all the details will come out in an open court of law.

I sincerely hope that those who are truly guilty in this tragic affair will be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

I sincerely hope that no one who isn’t guilty isn’t going to be, for we need to stop this escalating cycle of self defeating violence, not increase it.

All we really know is that 13 people are dead, 30 people are injured. There is a man the authorities claim is the gunman in custody. He apparently is not talking.

Until we get the story from this guy. It's unfair to assume that his religion had anything to do with this. For all we know he may have just completely snapped like any normal crazy person.

Going postal is an American English slang term, used as a verb meaning to suddenly become extremely and uncontrollably angry, often to the point of violence and in a workplace environment. The term's popularity increased after the 1995 movie Clueless. It derives from a series of incidents from 1983 onward in which United States Postal Service (USPS) workers shot and killed managers, fellow workers, and members of the police or general public. Between 1986 and 1997, more than 40 people were killed in at least 20 incidents of workplace rage. The phrase has been applied to murders committed by employees in acts of workplace rage, irrespective of the employer. It's generally used to describe fits of rage, though not necessarily at the level of murder, in or outside the workplace.

en.wikipedia.org...

He may have just went postal.

Actually the correct numbers for injured/deceased are as follows:

13 DEAD

38 WOUNDED

GUNMEN (confirmed) 4 gunshot wounds, critical condition.



I feel compelled to add that... in the story of kane and abel it matters not what clothing they wear, or what colors they wear or what they believe they represent, murder is murder. Many or shall I say most are 'stuck' in this mind-set that is seemingly inescapable because it has been drilled into your heads from day 1, as well as your parents.

I am not religious, and I do not follow any sect. The morality of the story remains strong and I suggest anyone who deciphers differentiation between any persons killing any other persons; read it.

(THIS INCLUDES ANY AND ALL ARMIES ATTACKING ANY AND ALL TARGETS AND OR ARMIES) The ones most psychologically deranged
here, are the ones whom justify killing. (and often glorify)

[edit on 6-11-2009 by MavRck]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
See that's your problem...

You're not saying anything many here don't already know. However many here seem to be stuck like a scratched record, regurgitating the same old rhetoric over and over again.
No Slayer, You don't understand watch the video...

Let me post something You already know!!! To prove my point and not look at anything that will expand my own understanding

ModernAcademiaaaaaa
All Muslims Are Terroistssssssssss
The Quran Preaches Terroismmmmmmmmmmm


Ummm ya you totally take a different approach than the one you criticize

Hey Modern, let me say something that you've heard a zillion of times before from people who love to generalize

Originally posted by whatukno
Until we get the story from this guy. It's unfair to assume that his religion had anything to do with this. For all we know he may have just completely snapped like any normal crazy person.

The only story you will get is whatever the feds involved fabricate and leak to the news media.

You will never know the truth, so go ahead and buy whatever you find at news sources online, copy paste and link.

In fact, most of you have already fallen for fabricated news of this event.

Typical, predictable...It is no wonder that these people are so good a pulling off such large scale murderous fraud, they've been doing it for a very long time.

The clean up will continue... stay tuned.



[edit on 6-11-2009 by Walkswithfish]

Originally posted by mmiichael

Like get a life.

Thanks. I'll do that. I'll run right down to Walmart first thing in the morning and pick one up. Not sure how that comment added to the thread, though.

1.50 billion Muslims in the world. They mostly seem to be able to deal with situations among other without going on killing sprees. Add in 2-3 Billion other people who live in minority situations where they are often chastised.

The muslim community isn't immune from having unstable people in it. On the contrary, it appears to me that it has a particularly high incidence of instability. Doesn't make the actions of the unstable right, and it doesn't mean the entire community is unstable.

Almost all people learn to deal with rejection on some level.

They key word there being "almost". It means "most, but not ALL". Trying to nmake "almost" all muslims appear sane doesn't have any bearing on the fact that there are unstable folks in every community that will do stupid things and hurt people.

This guy was paid thousands of dollars a week for the softest prestige position in the military - counseling soldiers. He trained in psychology and psychiatry. Were he to find his position unbearable, he would know how to get out of duties or even his military contract for emotional or religious reasons. He didn't seek personal counseling - he was giving it.

See, your attempting to apply rational thought to an irrational act. Good luck with that.

All his actions and words lead to an inevitable conclusion that in pre-meditation for his religious convictions he chose to kill as many innocent American military personnel as he could.

Can't deny that, at all. What I find curious is that you think that was a "rational" thing to do.

People have been intimidated by fear of criticizing anyone Muslim. We mustn't up set them, they're so emotional. meanwhile they are given a license appropriate hatred and scorn of whoever they feel inclined to - Jews, Chrisitans, Westerners. Every excuse and apology is given.

If you're attempting to place ME in that camp, you obviously haven't read many of my posts concerning islam in general, and terrorism in particular around ATS.

However, I DO call 'em like I see 'em, for good or for bad. Not everything is a terrorist plot, any more than everything traces back to some nebulous, but sinister NWO conspiracy.

Sometimes, bad stuff just happens.

I find it in extremely poor taste to jump on the "let's kill it if it moves, they're ALL dangerous!" bandwagon, using the bodies of fallen soldiers as your own personal soap box before the gun barrel even cools, or the smoke clears.

Going off half-cocked before you even know exactly WHAT is going on is a dangerous thing. I've seen otherwise rational people get caught up in such foolishness and die from it. Sometimes, they're lucky, and in their emotionally charged state, just kill other folks that didn't do anything, while somehow keeping their own skin intact.

This is a very destructive person. If he received some criticism it was not completely without justification. There are bad people.

I'm not denying that. I'm saying think before you act, including opening your mouth as an action. Get the facts straight and the intel in order. Don't charge into a hail of bullets before you even know where they're coming from.

And for God's sakes, don't waste precious ammo on harmless targets. You never know when you might need it on down the trail.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

ModernAcademiaaaaaa
All Muslims Are Terroistssssssssss
The Quran Preaches Terroismmmmmmmmmmm

Ummm ya you totally take a different approach than the one you criticize

Hey Modern, let me say something that you've heard a zillion of times before from people who love to generalize

I've quoted your entire post at the risk of being slammed by a mod.

First off, I'm glad you are having a good time.

Second, can you kindly point out where I've made blanket claims or statements about Islam or Muslims?


[edit on 6-11-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Russia’s Islamic revolt is spreading

THE diehard gang of Muslim extremists responsible for last week’s attack on the southern Russian city of Nalchik consisted mainly of local militants intent on creating a strict Islamic state independent of Moscow, according to security sources in the region.

Wow, sounds somewhat like Waco Texas doesn't it?

This happened in Kabardino-Balkaria
Please learn about the history of Kabardino-Balkaria and reply
It has many paralles to the U.S.A.
Please read this:
www.jamestown.org...

It argues on both our sides I guess
But read it

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Source

Russia's two biggest terrorist attacks both came from Muslim groups. In the Nord-Ost incident at a theater in Moscow in October 2002

From YOUR link:
Whether this attack would more properly be called a nationalist rather than an Islamist attack is in question..

These seem to be seperatists, even the article uses that term
Nice try though
For future notice, I have no interest in Wiki links

Originally posted by SLAYER69

In the September 2004 Beslan school hostage crisis 1,200 schoolchildren and adults were taken hostage after "School Number One" secondary school in Beslan, North Ossetia-Alania was overrun by the "Caucasus Caliphate Jihad" led by Shamil Basayev

FROM YOUR link:
Police said that the camp, in Akto county, was run by the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (Etim). It is listed as a terrorist group by the US, at China’s insistence, despite concerns among Beijing-based diplomats over lack of evidence.

Again from YOUR link:
Western experts and diplomats voiced doubts about the report, saying that it would be unusual for Turkic-speaking Uighurs bent on independence to set up a camp in mountains populated mostly by members of the Tajik minority, which is opposed to a separate state and would be unlikely to give refuge to members of a rival ethnic minority.

Now THIS from YOUR link:
Dru Gladney, a US-based expert on Xinjiang, said: “Most groups in Xinjiang are not motivated by islam but by sovereignty.

Did you even read what you posted dude?
Come on Slayer
you can do better than that

Anyhow....
I'm not sayint that islamic terroism doesn't exist
but I am saying it doesn't represent the majority of what you label as islamic extremism.

and when I say islamic terroism does exist, it's in the same context of me saying christian or catholic or judaic extremism also exists.

Any other questions

Are you sure you are not a covert op secretly trying to support my arugment

Did you even notice that what you posted really only supports MY argument

Sovereingty, seperatism, Leave Us Alone

Whether you agree with these political ideologies is another topic
but at least now you know it is not religiously motivated

let me know if you need help understanding anything else
no hard feelings bro

[edit on 6-11-2009 by ModernAcademia]

Fort Hood shooting suspect, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, wanted out of the Army after being constantly harassed by others in the military and was called a "camel jockey," his family said.

ABC News

Well perhaps this goes some way to explaining how he could motive himself to kill `A Brother-In-Arms` .

The following excerpt is from Nidal Hasan himself, posted on his Scribd account.

NidalHasan scribbled:

There was a grenade thrown amongs a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades.

Indeed he saved them. He inentionally took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier.

To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause.

Nidal Hasan/ Scribd A/c
And a most revealing statement .....

If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory.

Nidal Hasan / Scribd A/c
emphasis /mine

A devout Muslim, Hasan described himself as reserved and funny in an application for a Muslim marriage matchmaking program run by Imam Faizul Khan or the Islamic Society of Washington Area.

ABC News

On the embedded video in the ABC News article they said " (Hasan) was reportedly being treated himself for alcoholism ". Surely an added source of torment for a devout Muslim .
===============================================

I believe a weapon such as this was used in the attack.

FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol

Major Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly packed a FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol, which according to federal law enforcement officials, was legally purchased from the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas in Aug. 2009. The store's manager, David Cheadle, said that particular firearm can hold 20 rounds in a standard clip and take a ten round clip extension. Cheadle said with one clip and one round in the chamber, one could fire 31 rounds before reloading.

link

Originally posted by Sheeper

This post is nut brains, you should see a shrink or something.

Are you offering your services? I can tell you're a professional qualified to assess such things from your precise use of technical language in reference to my "condition".

So because he didn't like hearing how we feel about his beloved religion of peace, he goes out and proves everything we feel to be correct? And this is how you rationalize it, how you spin sympathy for this most evil of human beings? Why are you so negative anyway, you keep calling people ignorant because of how they feel.

Huh. Irrational people doing irrational things. Who'da thunk it?

How I rationalize it? Who's nuts now? It was not a rational act, and it can't BE rationalized. Sympathy for him? Where? Just because he may be nuts, doesn't mean he shouldn't hang. Society has to protect itself. I've NEVER been for the insanity defense. A dead man NEVER does physical harm again, regardless of his mental condition.

I reckon I'm so negative because I'm an ass. Let's get positive then. I'm with ya, bro. Let's just kill everything that moves, and never bother to ask why. Let's not look for the real danger, it could be ANYWHERE. Safer to just kill 'em all, eh? Make sure you bring plenty of bullets. Wouldn't want to run out killin' off harmless folks, right when we might need some to counter a REAL threat.

I don't call people ignorant because of how they FEEL. FEELINGS are emotional, not thought out. If they're not thoughts, they can't be ignorant. I call people ignorant when they spew alleged "facts" just trying to kick up a ruckus and cloud issues with BS. I call people ignorant when they promote fear of the harmless. That just gives more power to the truly dangerous.

And that, sir, is truly "ignorant".

Well, I think it's completely rational to be angry with all Muslims, not just "terrorists", it is the religion of Islam that is producing these terrorists. It's the religion itself which is corrupt IMO, but you know what people like you that spin your PC bullcrap and attack people like us are truly ignorant. Go hug a tree or something, we adults got this thing called reality to deal with.

You think that's rational, and have the temerity to label ME as "nut brained" and in need of psychiatry? Well then, run along, and fear anything you like.

Indeed, islam IS corrupt. That doesn't mean all muslims are clinically insane. Just because an ethos is corrupt, it doesn't naturally follow that ALL zombie adherents will ACT on that.

Your calling ME a PC tree hugger? That makes it obvious that you haven't read any of my other stuff here at ATS. That's really just TOO funny that you called me a PC tree hugger. Thanks for the comic relief.

So then, sonny, run along now into that fantasy world you think of as an "adult reality". The rest of us have serious threats to attend to, not tilting at windmills.

Edit to add: I can see now why your handle is "sheeper".

[edit on 2009/11/6 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Anyhow....
I'm not sayint that islamic terroism doesn't exist
but I am saying it doesn't represent the majority of what you label as islamic extremism.

Show me where I've made that claim?
Get it together.

Are you drinking?

Originally posted by nenothtu
People have been intimidated by fear of criticizing anyone Muslim. We mustn't up set them, they're so emotional. meanwhile they are given a license appropriate hatred and scorn of whoever they feel inclined to - Jews, Chrisitans, Westerners. Every excuse and apology is given.

If you're attempting to place ME in that camp, you obviously haven't read many of my posts concerning islam in general, and terrorism in particular around ATS.

However, I DO call 'em like I see 'em, for good or for bad. Not everything is a terrorist plot, any more than everything traces back to some nebulous, but sinister NWO conspiracy.

Sometimes, bad stuff just happens.

Actually reading your well reasoned replies I realize I misinterpeted your original comments. Your post came at the tail end of messages somehow trying to somehow relieve of full responsibility the man who killed those people on the grounds that he is a victim of social persecution.

On the same day when a dozen or so innocent people died in a hail of bullets, some of them half the age of their murderer, I didn't think it appropriate that he was being considered a victim, particularly as he is still alive. And they are now dead.


M


[edit on 6-11-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
Actually reading your well reasoned replies I realize I misinterpeted your original comments. Your post came at the tail end of messages somehow trying to somehow relieve of full responsibility the man who killed those people on the grounds that he is a victim of social persecution.

On the same day when a dozen or so innocent people died in a hail of bullets, some of them half the age of their murderer, I didn't think it appropriate that he was being considered a victim, particularly as he is still alive. And they are now dead.


M

No problem. I wasn't in a particularly charitable mood either, knowing that soldiers lay dead, cut down while unarmed in an act of extreme cowardice, and others were wounded under similar circumstances, and may or may not pull through. A couple have lost the fight since it all started in this thread.

Hassan is not a victim of any sort in my eyes, sane or not. He's cowardice personified. A truly evil man. I'd like to see him hang, as he so richly deserves. I just didn't feel it was appropriate for some to go off on political rants as they did at that time, using the tragedy as an excuse to push an agenda. There's always time for recriminations later.

Neither did I feel it appropriate to tar an entire spectrum of people with a broad brush, simply because of the way they believe. If one is to do that, the beliefs and practices as set forth should at the very least be accurate. Furthermore, in the zeal to tar everything islamic, the eye is taken off the ball, in my opinion, and that gives unwarranted leeway to those who would actually perpetrate acts of this despicable nature. It allows them to misdirect attention towards another area while they make and execute their plans.

I guess you could say I was having a bad day, but I did try to stay on an even keel, not always successfully.

Edit to add: I always enjoy your posts, and nearly always agree with them. It sort of gave me a twinge to come under your gun.

Furthermore, in this thread I've found myself in the position of being forced to star posts by Whatukno, Benevolent Heretic, Protoplasmic Traveller, Whaa, and several others, even Southern Guardian, that I generally make it a policy to not agree with. How uncomfortable! Even so, when they're right, they're right, and I try to give all due credit, however much it may rankle at the time.

There's common ground out there somewhere, folks.

[edit on 2009/11/6 by nenothtu]

[edit on 2009/11/6 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by jerico65
People may want to DL this before it disappears.

www.gwumc.edu...

Nidal Hasan on the Obama Presidential Transition Task Force. Page 29, halfway down, left side.

Wow! I wonder what that means...

And I read earlier that the guns used were bought at a gun show. So they may be using this to "crackdown" on gun shows.

Well, where do we go from here folks?

As of now, Lt. General Cone has confirmed that Major Hassan uttered the terrorist call of "Allahu Akhbar" while commencing forth in his attacks, and now we also hear that OVER 100 shots were fired within the three minutes that it took for the female LEO to respond (Sgt. Kimberly Munley) and finally gun the punk down (Great response time and rapid reaction btw).

On the same note, the official release is that Hassan had two pistols, one of which was an FN 5.7mm (Capable of holding a 30 round magazine), and that he only fired the FN. I find this extremely difficult to believe. With two high-capacity handguns, I can declare it quite possible indeed to shoot dead 12 people in an enclosed room, but to inflict the sort of damage witnessed at Ft. Hood with one handgun? That is really pushing the level of absurdity. The only two possibilities that I can reach are that either Hassan had another firearm which he dumped during his rampage, or there was another shooter.

After the bullets have been removed during autopsies and surgeries, we should finally be able to reach a conclusion in regards to such.

Originally posted by jerico65
People may want to DL this before it disappears.

www.gwumc.edu...

Nidal Hasan on the Obama Presidential Transition Task Force. Page 29, halfway down, left side.

Great find! Did you find that yourself or did another ATS member find that? It's worthy of a thread of its own.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


I think it means exactly what it says. The guy was on the security priorities panel. This guy was a Major in the Army. It's not like he was ALWAYS completely insane.

I think some things need to be looked into, instead of rushing to judgment on this guy. The Muslim terrorist angle just doesn't seem right. It just seems a little too convenient to me.

Like the leap from Bio-Chemistry to Psychologist? The "bad review" the sudden appearance of what would be quite damning posts online? I mean, there seems to be an awful lot of bad ink on this guy for having the positions he did. I wonder how long they were actually online?

www.scribd.com...

There is no date stamp on this, does anyone know how to check to see when this was posted?

If it is true that this man shouted 'Allahu Akhbar!' before firing his first shot, then he is the one responsible for putting Islam in the dock in the court of public opinion.

As the Democrats massage the message and add their spin to it for the Sunday television programmes in the States, we can be sure that Islam will not be tagged with this one, and those who see the link and talk about the link will be branded as racists or something worse.

Again, the shooter himself has implicated his religion by crying out 'Allahu Akhbar!' before his first shot. He is the guilty party in every sense.

The shouting of 'Allahu Akhbar!' is the sort of thing that could have been misheard or retrofitted into witnesses testimony. But coupled with the food store security pics of him in turban and full regalia, his various remarks to peers, the Internet posting, handing out Korans, etc. - there's little room for interpretations.

Added to that rather than having a deprived childhood as a political refugee or some early trauma, he had risen to a high rank in a high status, highly paid profession. On the surface he had it all - fulfilling the American Dream.

There will be talk of Fifth Column and some reaction in military selection and security positions as a fallout.

Interesting to see where the pro- and anti- gun lobby will go with this.

The grotesqueness of this awful tragedy is that the killer survived.
Hopefully this will not be exploited in a malign way.


Mike

[edit on 6-11-2009 by mmiichael]