Famous Socorro landing case a hoax?

Personally, I've always thought it more likely that he saw an experimental lunar lander type craft as such things were being tested at the time.

I've heard other claims regarding this incident before. Usually they involve somebody with an egg shaped hot air balloon and the officer just happened to see them playing around.

This particular letter seems phony to me as well. It appears a genuine letter has had some writing added to it. The story that these genius kids pranked the officer and created the burned ground, etc doesn't really make sense either.

I don't know what the man saw, but I don't think it has anything to do with this mysterious claim to hoaxing fame.

Originally posted by Whatthehell?
This particular letter seems phony to me as well. It appears a genuine letter has had some writing added to it.

Since the letter is the only real tangible evidence in this case other than hearsay witness accounts, I suspect the letter will be further investigated for authenticity. I'm not sure the letter is authentic but right now I have no reason to doubt it. Hopefully some researchers will take a closer look at the letter and make a determination of authenticity one way or the other.

But the fact that it has writing added to it doesn't detract from its credibility, things like that happened before the advent of the internet and electronic communication.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Whatthehell?
This particular letter seems phony to me as well. It appears a genuine letter has had some writing added to it.

Since the letter is the only real tangible evidence in this case other than hearsay witness accounts, I suspect the letter will be further investigated for authenticity. I'm not sure the letter is authentic but right now I have no reason to doubt it. Hopefully some researchers will take a closer look at the letter and make a determination of authenticity one way or the other.

But the fact that it has writing added to it doesn't detract from its credibility, things like that happened before the advent of the internet and electronic communication.

I think the fact that Colgate confirmed what was written in the Pauling letter to Bragalia locks that part of the story down.

reply to post by IsaacKoi


1. There are no names of the college students who are alleged to have hoaxed the incident.

2. Lonnie Zamora would have discovered it was a hoax, as he himself states he did not believe in ETs visiting us. Also, why not interview him and ask his opinion of the new theory?

3. What purpose was this hoax for? All that trouble (and cost) to try and fool one police officer does not make sense.

4. Until the former students come forward and show some of the pieces of the model (they would have kept some for a souvenirs), I will take this answer with a grain of salt.

reply to post by Whatthehell?


If it was a lunar lander, why wouldn't the government or agency in charge come forward? The project is not classified now, and there should not be any reason to not state it was them. Besides, I think Mr Zamora would of seen the helicopter holding it up.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
3. What purpose was this hoax for? All that trouble (and cost) to try and fool one police officer does not make sense.

I thought the article explained that pretty well. Read it again and if you still have trouble maybe point out what's wrong with the explanation they provided?

4. Until the former students come forward and show some of the pieces of the model (they would have kept some for a souvenirs), I will take this answer with a grain of salt.

Yes, the students need to provide more detail, though such an admission may adversely impact their careers so they may not come forward.

I consider the claim credible since a college president is a pretty good source, with some corroboration, but it's all hearsay so unproven.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I so think Mr Zamora should be asked to respond if he hounded the techies. Yes, it does sound like a good reason, but where did the students get the money to pull off such a prank?

I also don't buy that they are afraid they would ruin their careers. If after 45 years they still don't have a career started by now, they never will. The students would all be pushing their 70s by now.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
The assumption of 8 tons would probably be based on a craft placing that much weight on the landing pods, so it might be a valid estimate. But the 'the digging out of "landing depressions"' means that no weight would be required at all, you can dig them as shallow or as deep as you like to give the appearance of weight.

Without the correct force, you cannot compress something properly.

If you dig a pit in sand with your hands, or a spade, What you've done is create a void by removing the sand, but the sand still has to go somewhere.

But when you compress it, it stays in the same place and is forced downwards and compacted.

There is a big big difference.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
The assumption of 8 tons would probably be based on a craft placing that much weight on the landing pods, so it might be a valid estimate. But the 'the digging out of "landing depressions"' means that no weight would be required at all, you can dig them as shallow or as deep as you like to give the appearance of weight.

Without the correct force, you cannot compress something properly.

If you dig a pit in sand with your hands, or a spade, What you've done is create a void by removing the sand, but the sand still has to go somewhere.

But when you compress it, it stays in the same place and is forced downwards and compacted.

There is a big big difference.

I agree if they really studied the depressions that closely it should be possible to determine whether there was really 8 tons of compaction, or whether the depressions were dug out and then shaped with a small ball and some water. If all they did was measure the depression size and take casts etc, they might not know the difference, but if they conducted more detailed analysis they could tell the difference, I'd have to look at the details about how they came up with 8 tons to see exactly what methods were used to determine that.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by Whatthehell?

 

If it was a lunar lander, why wouldn't the government or agency in charge come forward? The project is not classified now, and there should not be any reason to not state it was them. Besides, I think Mr Zamora would of seen the helicopter holding it up.

There was no helicopter needed. Check out the jet powered trainer that Armstrong had to eject from. There were other versions that I saw photos of that closely fit the Zamora account.

When things go off course (or worse) they are not usually put out for the public to dissect. It's possible such an event happened with such an experimental device or one that is still classified.

However, I do recall some balloon guys making the claim that they are the ones Zamora saw. Another doubtful tale in my opinion.

It's probable that Zamora saw exactly what he says he saw. Since the UFO cover works so well why mess with it? Let the public think it was aliens.

It's going to take more than a sketchy email for me to buy into the latest claim. I remain skeptical of this claim.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

I did a search and found this: www.thewhyfiles.net...
The bottom has a picture of one of the four impressions with a shape of the impression sketch, so forget the ball I mentioned as obviously it's not ball shaped.

I also found the name of the engineer who did the analysis was W.T. Powers and he said 1 ton per footpad so 4 tons total. However I was unable to find a copy of his analysis anywhere online, so I don't know if he just took measurements and estimated the weight from that, or did a more in-depth analysis.

I don't know when that photo of the depression was taken (how long after the incident), but doesn't that look like a little piece of shrub inside the depression or something? I would have thought the 1 ton force would have crushed that unless the wind blew that there later. It's hard to tell.

I looked up some more on this case and ran across this:

www.ufocasebook.com...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/20773770375f.jpg[/atsimg]

Don't you feel badly for Socorro? They could have been milking this story for 44 years, then in 2008 they decide to make a tourist attraction, and the next year the hoax letter appears...bad timing. I wonder if they ever actually built it? I haven't found any confirmation of that.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
then in 2008 they decide to make a tourist attraction, and the next year the hoax letter appears...bad timing.

Or a convinient point in time for whoever wanted to try and trash the actual event?

We live in an age of haters.

To my eye, the stones around the "impression" have the strong appearance of having been arranged.

[edit on 9/26/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


I can see where you are coming from - I'd like to see that one clearer/better resolution.

Edited because I looked at the wrong photo.

[edit on 26/9/09 by neformore]

Originally posted by reject
reply to post by IsaacKoi

 

if that thing was a balloon

where did the students disguised as aliens go after it took off? this happened in a flat desolate stretch of desert y'know

this makes me think disclosure isn't gonna come about because of humans...

"...this happened in a flat desolate stretch of desert..." Not! It was hilly/gully.

reply to post by Whatthehell?


If the program is not classified, why not come forward and give Mr Zamora peace of mind to what he saw?

Also, the object is described as egg-shaped, and does not look anything like the lunar module.

NASA, or any other group would have come forward by now. Remember, the government goes out of its way to explain these sightings.

Im not saying this was a real flying saucer sighting but i dont see anything that would directly indicate this was a hoax.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by VitalOverdose]

After 45 years the truth is now revealed- one of the most famous UFO sightings in history was a hoax. The recent confession of an elderly College President -and a newly discovered document- indicate that the 1964 sighting of a landed UFO by Socorro, NM policeman Lonnie Zamora was the result of an elaborate school prank. This incredible story is publicly recounted for the first time ever by individuals who have held the secret of Socorro for decades.

.....and of course, we believe them.

BS.

reply to post by fls13


I don't believe a speeding car led him on a chase "exactly" to the landing site - wasn't it some distance away with Zamora's attention having been diverted ?

IMO the student hoax theory has too many what if's, such as -

- the speeder was stopped before getting there
- Zamora's attention wasn't diverted
- the pyrotechnic's didn't work
- Zamora decided to shoot one of the "aliens"
- any one of dozens more

I mean really, if Zamora's testimony is to be believed (and that seems to be the one thing not in question !) then we have students with the ability to build a metal craft capable of VTOL under jet propulsion that can carry two occupants. I asssume it landed somewhere safely also or were there two missing students and a hole in the desert somewhere ?

All as a prank to get up the nose of a local copper. What was the prank supposed to achieve and how exactly ? Maybe some of the physical traces could be achieved through a student budget - the rest though ? How easy would it really be to try and create what was described by Zamora to the degree that he wouldn't recognise it for what it was. Doesn't add up.

Neither does the "not so secret testing of the lunar lander" hypothesis. Was a working version actually constructed and test flown on earth - if so when and where, anything tie in remotely with location and dates to Zamora's encounter ?