US Military.... why?

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I don't like the military because their only job is to kill human beings. Those thugs killed a million Iraqis already and meanwhile back home politicians are unwilling to spend the money to let us have health care! Unreal! Killing takes precedence over living!

SuperViking,

Yeah i have had experiences with military personnel that don't cast them in the best light. I've maintained the entire time that personal experience, things I've heard, and a lot of stuff I've read too has formed any opinion I have.

Did you really think I woke up one day, poured myself a bowl of cereal and thought, wow the military is nothing but a bunch of losers! Ef them! No, come on dude. You really think I just form offensive opinions without something to back it up?

Look if you're gonna participate in this thread, and I think even mf_luder would agree with me, don't be a tool. You already have negative ATS points, don't make it any worse on yourself.

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


I completely agree with Liquid on this topic.

If you've had bad personal experiences with the military, I can understand not being quick to warm up to us, but if you're on here to just flame about how much you hate the military - please take that garbage elsewhere, I want facts and personal experience here - not "they kill people."

Star for Liquid.

I think our military is great and secretly far more powerful than anyone realizes

With that said, cut it in half in terms of cost

start by breaking some heads in regards to military contract overspending... the 95.00 Hammer thing...

then the economy is cured

even as is, with corruption is spending, in half we'd still be spending and producing more than any country on Earth

so, fix the finances

No one can invade us, not possible, really... the Ocean and the size it's a dim hope and our Nuclear deterrent can't be countered so MAD remains and will remain

stop being world policeman for a little while, make us rich again, then slowly increase spending again,

Originally posted by k-string
I don't like the military because their only job is to kill human beings. Those thugs killed a million Iraqis already and meanwhile back home politicians are unwilling to spend the money to let us have health care! Unreal! Killing takes precedence over living!

You really feel our ONLY job is to kill people? I've been in for 7 years, been to Iraq twice and actually engaged the enemy directly about 9 or 10 times on my second rotation, toward the end. The rest of the time we're either on a base somewhere working on training or working on developing ourselves and our soldiers to progress through the ranks and to be successful as civilians. Maybe if you sign up just to be infantry or rangers or something - but even then, 96% of your career is going to be on a base somewhere in the world, not actually killing people.

There is a lot of other stuff the military, (the Army, from my personal experience) does to help out communities and the local people in the countries we're in. Did you know that we provide jobs and a lot of other benefits for Iraqis? We help to provide them with working water, sewers, schools, electrical grids, etc? Yeah... you could say "Well, you destroyed it all during the invasion..." You may be right - we did take over the country and there was collateral damage, but a lot of the villages and cities we entered were already in squalor because of the way Saddam treated his people over there, not because of our presence. We were met with open arms and cheers in most of the places I personally visited. So, we're not all thugs - man....

In the states - the Army (specifically the National Guard) provides hurricane and other disaster situations throughout the years. They came out for Katrina and for the one that just smashed into Texas not too long ago (not for "Martial Law" or "Attacking the Locals", but to help people get out of rubble and save civilians who'd ignored government warnings to leave or people who couldn't leave."

Now, you could say I'm spouting propaganda and that I'm just telling party lines or whatever - but in the end, it's just a cop out for those of you who actually think we're all bad. It's just a cop out. You can't legitimately back up your claims.

So please - I'm not trying to jump you here, but if you don't like us all solely because we're "killers", back it up with more than just that.

Thanks!

My statements are backed up with facts. The iraqi civilian death toll. There is no escaping that travesty. If I belonged to an organization that killed a million people I don't know how I could live with myself.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by k-string]

People like K-string above hit it right on the head.

People see those who serve in the military as those who represent the American war machine.

They forget that they are men and women with lives and families. They forget that they are in a service where a belief in the unified chain of command is gospel.

They forget that these sons and daughters, husbands and wives, fathers and mothers are the ones who provide them with their safety and peace of mind.

They forget that they live in a land of freedom because someone else stood up and said "not on my watch"

They forget that every job has at least a 10% make-up of people who are jerks.

I for one dont take them for granted.
I believe that those in the military choose to be our guardian angels and I thank them for making that choice and defending our nation.

You have nothing but my admiration and respect and dont let the negativity bring you down.

To all the Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airmen..God Bless and thank you.

reply to post by k-string

If I belonged to an organization that killed a million people I don't know how I could live with myself.

That's twice you said a million killed.

Where do you get your source?

Better yet post your source.

A million or 500,000 it doesn't really matter. It's a heinous travesty either way.

I find it funny that the military folk are beating around the bush of so many innocent dead as if a wrong figure can justify killing.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by k-string]

reply to post by k-string

I find it funny that the military folk are beating around the bush of so many innocent dead as if a wrong figure can justify killing.

Let's just pray that one day you don't find yourself in a predicament where you have to kill or be killed. I wouldn't want you to take an innocent life.

I guess it is easy to criticize an organization that you never been a part of.

Have a good one.

Originally posted by Shocka
My fundamental problem with the military is their use of brainwashing against their own men, when otherwise good Americans are torturing Middle Eastern people in secret prisons or firing on civilians in the streets I believe it has a lot to do with brainwashing and desensitizing.

The thing about this statement is that soldiers aren't brainwashed. The americans that you claim are torturing people in prisons and things of that nature are people who were already predisposed to violence. It's much easier to train someone in torture techniques that gravitate towards violence than to try to do the same training on a nonviolent person. The army doesn't brainwash it's regular soldiers. The soldiers are trained to react in a given situation, and the geneva conventions prevent soldiers from opening fire without first being fired upon.

I don't like it how the soldiers are used as pawns to carry out our government's plans be them legitimate or not. I don't like the fact that my friend recently came back from Afghanistan and wasn't the same person anymore and I could tell he would never be the same again.

Soldiers do their duty. They aren't in Iraq fighting because they want to be, they are there because they have to be. We don't question the why, we simply go there and follow our orders, as we were trained to.

In regards to your friend, he's not the only soldier that's been changed by war. War changes everyone. Until bullets start whizzing by your head, and you see people dying daily, and you're always looking over your shoulder hoping that there isn't a sniper with you in his sights, and you can't go a night without hearing mortars exploding somewhere around you, you can't understand what war is really like.

I also don't like that they prey on mostly poor people from low income families, and minorities, giving them thousands of dollars to join. My friend was promised that he wouldn't be sent anywhere outside of the US and after he signed up and went through boot camp they told him he was going to Afghanistan to drive gasoline trucks over the border to Iraq.

Military recruiters don't necessarily prey on low income families. Common sense dictates that a person from a low income family will have a harder time going to college than a person from a higher income family, so it makes sense that they would offer those people an alternative to taking out thousands of dollars in student loans. The truth is that some recruiters will say or do whatever they feel they need to to get the person to sign that bottom line. I don't like that, but that's reality.

In regards to your other friend (hopefully not the same one), they should have had enough common sense to realize that this country is at war, and no soldier is EVER guaranteed not to go to Iraq or Afghanistan. When the recruiter told him that, he should have walked out the door, because that's just silly.

keep in mind that im not bashing your post, because i know many people that feel exactly like you do, i'm just trying to bring you information about the military, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
I have more personal experiences too, but this one is the most well documented.
Read the comments at the bottom too, someone else on their had a similar experience and mentioned it.

Ok, few questions to make sure I understand. And this is not an attack on you or your story in any way, I'm just confused so I want to make sure I understand.

There was a guy who had just come back from Iraq who got in a fight at a party. And him getting in a drunken fight is what caused you to feel the way you do about the military? I think I may be missing something, because I don't get the connection between a drunken fight and your attitude towards members of the military in general... Again, not an attack I am seriously confused at the moment.

reply to post by Jenna


I was kind of wondering the same thing to be honest and wasn't going to push the issue, but since Jenna brought it up... For real?

Well - in Liquid's defense, he did say there were "other" incidents, but I don't think witnessing a drunk soldier at a party should shape an image of the entire Army....

I mean - I've been to parties with friends from home and people who were in college where stuff got crazy and I was the only military guy there.

reply to post by mf_luder


I've never been one to be quiet if I'm confused!

The other incidents may explain his position a lot better, but as it stands I am just confused about the whole thing. I've been to high school graduation parties that were like that. There's always one mean drunk in every crowd, it's just a matter of whether or not they get set off. It's not an indication that all high school graduates are like that no more than this, the way I understand it anyway, is an indication that all military personnel are like that.



Again, Liquid not attacking here. I'm just confused.

I feel I must post on this thread because IMHO there is only one way to look at the armed forces in America right now and say what you want, but in all honesty any force that kills people in another country, be they soldiers or civilians is more than wrong.

I believe every soldier joins up to defend their country and their own. Going into Iraq, on the lies that every soldier now knows, was an act of evil, once each and every individual soldier realised that there was no WMD.

Being a soldier does not give you the excuse to murder for a reason that you know was a lie !. If I had been an Iraqi I too would have taken up
fire-arms against you for invading my country and then refusing to leave.

Want to know something else? so would most if not all of you. That my American brothers and sisters is how most of the world views your once great military machine.

respects

[edit on 5-11-2008 by captiva]

[edit on 5-11-2008 by captiva]

reply to post by mf_luder


I am glad you began this thread. In my family we can trace American soldiers back to the Revolutionary War. I have encountered few family's that have sacrificed as much. If you don't know what I mean by sacrifice you likely won't unless you too become a soldier. All my male ancestors were soldiers. Most recently my father fought in Korea and Vietnam. He died of cancer in a VA hospital. As a child I idolized him like he was Superman or something. As I grew older and came into adulthood I realized how disfunctional and really messed up the adults in my life had been. Generations of war had damaged my family terribly. I did not carry on with this tradition in my family. Today I prepare my son to be healthy, wise, centered, and strong. He may decide to return our family to the military, I don't know. I do know that for every soldier in the military there is a less likelihood of there being a mandatory draft. My brother was drafted for Vietnam in its final year, I haven't seen or heard from him since I was 6 years old ( 34 years ago ). I commend all soldiers on their self sacrifice, it saddens me immeasureably. Which brings me to a discussion I had with my brother-in law.

Last Summer, I asked my brother-in-law, an ex-Marine with Operation Desert Storm experience, a question about attitudes with soldiers today. I asked him if the soldiers of our country were ordered to make war on American citizens, i.e. shoot, maim , kill, would they do so. In a very flip tone he answered me, hell yea. We are trained to follow orders and to achieve objectives, no matter what.

So I ask the OP, do you think we should be worried when the POUSA orders his most battle hardened unit for a domestic tour in case we need them? Do we need to be worried as this is clearly against all laws and traditions since the Civil War? Do we need to worry when we see units being trained in urban warfare in Oakland California? Well, do we?


PG

Originally posted by pizzaguy
So I ask the OP, do you think we should be worried when the POUSA orders his most battle hardened unit for a domestic tour in case we need them? Do we need to be worried as this is clearly against all laws and traditions since the Civil War? Do we need to worry when we see units being trained in urban warfare in Oakland California? Well, do we?

I cannot speak for the entire military when I say this.

HELL NO.

You don't need to worry about American Soldiers attacking Americans. Only the most ignorant, childish lot of the Army would ever blindly follow such orders.

I've had the rather odd opportunity to serve under some rather stupid, immature and sad individuals in past units, who I strongly believe would follow such orders, but on the whole - no. Not the majority.

It would be easier to put a round through someone's head who was yelling at my squad to attack innocents than it would to justify doing so later on in life.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by mf_luder]

reply to post by mf_luder


I appreciate your honest answer. Perhaps my brother in-law is like those you speak of. Good day to you.

PG