US Military.... why?

reply to post by captiva

Going into Iraq, on the lies that every soldier now knows, was an act of evil, once each and every individual soldier realised that there was no WMD.

So let's go with your assumption that we now know that it is a lie. That means that at the beginning we didn't know it was a lie. We went in, messed things up and got bogged down in there. Now going with your assumption, we have two options once we discovered it was a lie. 1) get the hell out of dodge and let Iraq fall into a possible civil war or 2) help take care of the problem that we created. Which one do you think is the morally correct thing to do.

That my American brothers and sisters is how most of the world views your once great military machine.

Once great?????? It is still the greatest....

If I had been an Iraqi I too would have taken up
fire-arms against you for invading my country and then refusing to leave.

I find it Ironic that millions of Iraqi's chose not to pick up arms against our military. After all they do have us outnumbered on any given day.

reply to post by pizzaguy

So I ask the OP, do you think we should be worried when the POUSA orders his most battle hardened unit for a domestic tour in case we need them? Do we need to be worried as this is clearly against all laws and traditions since the Civil War? Do we need to worry when we see units being trained in urban warfare in Oakland California? Well, do we?

Personally, I think you should be more worried about companies like Blackwater. These guys are paid to get the job done.

www.blackwaterusa.com...

I think the urban training is just as necessary as desert or winter training that the military go through. As far as domestic tours, the after math of Katrina had a lot to do with this. People were PO'ed that the Government didn't help that much. As a result, the government responded.

reply to post by jam321


Firstly I dont assume anything. It was a lie, as confirmed "NO WMD" as stated by your own leaders.

Secondly, you assume that all hell would break loose in the event the US military pulled out. I see you offer no evidence of this fact.

Your third point based on " still being the greatest" is a matter of opinion, you have yours I have mine.

The fact of the matter is, with the greatest respect I may add, your military are in Iraq due to lies. They have killed those that would defend their country against you due to lies and you remain there for one reason, its a 3 letter word called "oil".

respects

No I didnt make him up. I realize the flaw in that sentence (a big one) but he is driving gasoline trucks over the border in Afghanistan, I just assumed to Iraq. My geography obviously isn't as good as I thought it was.

reply to post by captiva

They have killed those that would defend their country against you due to lies and you remain there for one reason, its a 3 letter word called "oil".

Show me the oil.


If it is oil we want from Iraq then we would have stayed after the first Gulf War and made Iraq our 51st State.

reply to post by mf_luder


The biggest thing that ever upset me about the US military? The attitude.

Some, not all, seem to see it as an adventure, to demonise the enemy and show anyone in the country they're invading absolutely no respect. They play music in there tanks for gods sake. The classic video of the soldier singing "burn motherf*** burn" just sickens me. The simple fact that many US soldiers don't even take off their sunglasses when speaking to someone shows an absolute arrogance.

did you ever see the videos that US troops shot themselves where they held bottled water and told kids to run faster as they drove away with it? I know it's probably not the majority of troops that do it but it seems to be a recurring theme.

UK troops rarely do any of this stuff, they try and treat the local populace with respect to get them on side. The whole hearts and minds strategy.

So that's why i dislike the US military as a whole. Whilst UK troops are patriotic, they tend to engage their brains when out fighting.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by captiva

 

If it is oil we want from Iraq then we would have stayed after the first Gulf War and made Iraq our 51st State.

This says more about your views than you could ever imagine.

Good day to you.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Some, not all, seem to see it as an adventure, to demonise the enemy and show anyone in the country they're invading absolutely no respect.

But at least you know that it is not all of them that behave that way. There are some who are what my grandparents would call "not quite right", but the majority of those in the military are normal decent people. Some are under the mistaken impression that one moron represents the rest of the military when really those morons are the exception, not the rule.

The simple fact that many US soldiers don't even take off their sunglasses when speaking to someone shows an absolute arrogance.

Not to be picky, but perhaps they don't take off their sunglasses because if they do they can't see. I know if I am wearing them, it means I am outside and the sun is up and if I take them off I won't be able to see anything from the glare. I'd rather talk to someone who is wearing sunglasses than someone who takes them off and is all squinty-eyed, has watery eyes from the glare of the sun, and can't see anything.

I don't understand how people can see going into Iraq as "an act of evil" as someone on this page said. Wars are an amoral inevitability stemming from clashing national interests- it's only in the last 100 years or so (and only in the US and Western Europe) that it's been painted as something moral or immoral- it's not.

Killing people is just a job. I've done it and I sleep fine at night, and I know many people would kill me just as quickly. It's just a job; that's what happens when nation-states want different things badly enough.

Just a dumba$$ tanker here.

I enlisted when I was 16 (DEP). I grew up in the Army so it was all I knew. I have been out for quite some time and I still miss it more than I ever thought I would when I left.

We would fight each other at the drop of a hat, but not hesitate to share that last sip of water from our canteen To me, that says it all. Great thread. Star.

reply to post by SuperViking


Not only that.

READ THIS ENTIRE POST BEFORE RESPONDING TO ME.

Didn't you know that we (the US Army) gas our own people? Kill hundreds and thousands of our own soldiers/Americans because of ethnic differences? Didn't you know we drained an entire region of our own country so the people living there would die w/o water? Didn't you know we had factories where we march people in and kill them based off of the fact that they have opposing political views? WAIT.

That was Saddam. Oops.

Damn.

Good thing the 4ID and SF caught that SOB, right? Or was that evil? Is it evil to promote freedom?

Oh.... but that's not why you went over there.... oh..... WMDs..... (How do you know they weren't found, but for some stupid reason the US Government decided to slap a classification on them?) I wouldn't know.... But I do know the people there were MUCH happier after we rid the country of those bullies and the people who butchered so many of their own people. I guarantee you the number of accidental civilian casualties (that's right, I said ACCIDENTAL, because you're damned sure not going to tell me we do it intentionally) that number is MUCH lower than the number killed by his regime when he was in power.

But people like the guy you're responding to don't want to see that at all. They are blissfully ignorant, watching their MSM and lies they find on the net.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by mf_luder]

I don't understand how people can see going into Iraq as "an act of evil" as someone on this page said. Wars are an amoral inevitability stemming from clashing national interests- it's only in the last 100 years or so (and only in the US and Western Europe) that it's been painted as something moral or immoral- it's not.

Killing people is just a job. I've done it and I sleep fine at night, and I know many people would kill me just as quickly. It's just a job; that's what happens when nation-states want different things badly enough.

I think this sums up reasons behind the existence of anti military sentiment on this site, or in society in general.
Thought processes such as this are not conducive to anything positive.
The real mystery is how people like, the OP, and Viking can't understand that people aren't OK with this kind of logic, or personality type....

"Killing people is just a job. I've done it and I sleep fine at night"-SuperViking, voice of the US military.

When you become a soldier you know what you are signing up for, you know that you aren't going to be some rockstar with theme music and perfect lighting. The problems that arise in the military emanate from the bottom up for the most part, men and women who join the army are meant for two purposes. Protecting people and assets, and destroying people and assets, everything in between is inconsequential to the boots on the ground. People tend to loose sight of the fact that military forces are trained killers, they want to put some kind of silver lining around it and make it pretty and nice.

War is a brutal, ugly thing. And the men and women who volunteer for it understand that. I often wonder what people who say "we don't need an army, we don't need a navy" would say if it was all just poof gone.. I wonder what country would put its boots on your soil first, and i guarantee who ever it would be would have a much more barbaric military history than the Us and Canadian forces.

Originally posted by SuperViking
Wars are an amoral inevitability stemming from clashing national interests- it's only in the last 100 years or so (and only in the US and Western Europe) that it's been painted as something moral or immoral- it's not.

Did you ever stop to consider that maybe we are no where near reaching the ascension when views like yours are actually believed. War is never inevitable. I have never been to war and would never ever go to defend my country on the pretext of lies.

Killing people is just a job. I've done it and I sleep fine at night, and I know many people would kill me just as quickly. It's just a job; that's what happens when nation-states want different things badly enough.

I disagree. Thats actually what happens when the human race cant think or act for itself. Thats what happens when you are brainwashed, asleep and at the whim and lies of your leaders.

respects

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


That's international relations dude. You can hate it all you want, but it's not going to change, and all your comforts in life stem from people who understood that.

I feel kinda sorry for you.

There seems to be a very black and white view on this topic, either the military are all hero's or they are all baby killers. Both these views are wrong. Men and women in the service were placed in harm's way by POLITICIANS. If you think a war is unfair write your congressman or make some noise.

Clausewitz said two very important things about war almost 200 years ago:

1. You may not care about war, but war cares about you. If a neo-nazi army tries to kick in your door, are you going to tell them "Wait stop, I think war is bad"? I bet they wont listen.

2. War is an extension of a nation's political will. A perfect example is the US-IRAQ war, this was a political war based on perceived economic (oil) needs. The 911 killers are still running around in Afghanistan.

On a personal note, I have friends in the marines, and they are thoughtfull and conciderate. My father-in-law served in the Royal Navy in WW2 and he is one of the sanest, most rational and down to earth people I have ever met. I bet if you went to the local bar, you would find just as many, if not more anti-social psychos (as have been described) there.

I wonder what country would put its boots on your soil first, and i guarantee who ever it would be would have a much more barbaric military history than the Us and Canadian forces.

I wonder if the Iraqi people thought that when the US military put their boots in Iraq under the banner of "WMDS" ?

The US military are no longer a force for protection, iether of their country, or of even their own citizens. They have proven again and again that they are a force to be used blindly on others soil for greed.

I love my American brothers and sisters, but anyone who hides their eyes from the fact that the military is no more than a big stick to be wielded by neocon influences that are unthinking, uncaring, and genuinly evil, needs to open their eyes quick to all the suffering on foreign soil that they create.

Originally posted by Jenna
I believe you may be a mind reader.. I was actually contemplating starting a thread exactly like this one when I clicked recent posts and there this one was at the very top.

Seeing as how this thread will most likely be bombarded very quickly with anti-military sentiment, I will go ahead and be one of the few to disagree with what I am sure will be the majority.

I think it takes a special kind of person to join the military, it's not for everyone. Some because they can't handle the training or lifestyle, others because they don't have that personality trait that makes them want to be a part of something larger than themselves. And some, frankly, are just cowards. As I have stated in numerous other threads, I know a lot of people in the military and have been in myself once upon a time. I have seen first hand the kind of people who enlist and none of them come close to the brain-washed, puppy-killing, murdering rapist label attached to them by some members of this board. Some of the kindest, most intelligent people I have ever met were in the military or were retired vets.

I have never agreed with anything you have posted in the past until now. I too agree that a special person is one called to shed blood in our defense and protection.

Though I am a military veteran, I have a profound respect and admiration for those who serve their whole lives for us. I wish I were the kind of person to be able to do that. I wish I were so fortunate.

I have met many a combat veteran and I ask that consideration be given to them when criticizing the individual before going after the persons who order them to war. There are a small number of people in the world who commit acts not permitted while under the authority of a military command, and there is a law in place to deal with them - remember that law enforcement personnel are people too.

I salute my fellows and my Brothers, and I hope my fellow citizens do as well.

EDITED FOR CLARITY - I am drinking again...get this! I went today to the VA to restart the Incentive Therapy program....but I need a referral from a a psychologist to do so...have to "relapse", cause if I lied and didn't it would FRAUD. YAY "part of a larger group" people. Pardon me, again I am rambling about BS hate not being returned to service!

[edit on 5-11-2008 by SolarSeaman]

Real suffering is caused by the corporations who develop in and exploit resource rich nations. Unfortunately a few of these powerful corporations are developing and exploiting iraq and afganistans resources at the moment and these corporations and there infrastructure need protection from people who would love nothing more than to sever and disrupt the the western oil supply. And you know what, im glad we are in these country's because oil is this nations life blood ( i wish it wasn't) but it is. Oil puts food on my family's tables oil keeps my grandmother from freezing to death in the winter. At some point people need to realize that it comes down to a matter of survival, i would love to see a shift in human priorities. Something that would push us away from being so hopelessly dependent on foreign oil, but if you had to the choice to make that transition with 10 000 soldiers lives or with millions of civilians lives im damn sure you would choose the soldiers. And they would too.

Originally posted by captiva

I wonder what country would put its boots on your soil first, and i guarantee who ever it would be would have a much more barbaric military history than the Us and Canadian forces.

I wonder if the Iraqi people thought that when the US military put their boots in Iraq under the banner of "WMDS" ?

The US military are no longer a force for protection,

It never was. It was a force for the extension of American interests and protection thereof. I can understand your confusion if you thought that's what the American military ever was, but it's not.

iether of their country, or of even their own citizens. They have proven again and again that they are a force to be used blindly on others soil for greed.

If you mean rasion d'etat by greed, you're right. That's what nations do.

I love my American brothers and sisters, but anyone who hides their eyes from the fact that the military is no more than a big stick to be wielded by neocon influences that are unthinking, uncaring, and genuinly evil, needs to open their eyes quick to all the suffering on foreign soil that they create.

Neocons are EVIL? What?