Chopper Catches Glimpse of Lost World

Originally posted by DuneKnight
reply to post by Sonya610

 

hypocrite as always just being skeptical of everything yet cant think of an alternate. would u like to live in the jungle and get eaten by animals?

What's the difference to living in the slums of New York's sprawling apartments and getting killed by gangbangers.

GEE WHIZ WHAT A VAST IMPROVEMENT.

I think they are eating the animals. They might be abit native but that doesn't mean they are stupid.

"and in this episode of 'real survivor' we will see if Jogabu can defeat the anaconda before he gets eaten by the crocodile."

classic-- upper class people like to be entertained in the same way psychologists take pleasure in finding insane patients.

reply to post by Sonya610


Yep, classical sign of a cultural relativist. Since when is communicating with people imposing culture on someone? I, for one, am perfectly capable of talking with someone without trying to force my views on them. In fact you are pretty much denying them their right to choose how to live by keeping them isolated and not allowing any exchanges.

This thread is littered with people being self-righteous and indignant about how much the west sucks and how horrible we have it. Its amusing, to say the least. No one is volunteering to go out into the wilderness and live the pure, easy life like these tribes people have it. But..wait...I thought they had it good compared to how horrible we have it?

"and in this episode of 'real survivor' we will see if Jogabu can defeat the anaconda before he gets eaten by the crocodile."

classic-- upper class people like to be entertained in the same way psychologists take pleasure in finding insane patients."

Are you on drugs?

In fact no you are just a dcik looking for an argument so night night. I hope these people never meet people like you.

Bye.

You are of course absolutely right. There is human misery in the world. Congrats for pointing out the obvious, but the logical fallacy is that because people are hungry elsewhere these people shouldn't be helped. You'd have to be silly to suggest that this story wouldn't be more likely to draw donors to give money than the slums in Cairo. If we can help thirty people not die of an absessed tooth, then what does it matter whether other places in the world suffer. Complete and total non sequiter. BTW, you have no idea whether or not I am involved in organiations designed to curb world poverty.

Second, of course I'm not their "daddy", but then again when I break a bone I don't go to my daddy, I go to a doctor to make sure i don't die. I guess, unfortunately in your view, I consider myself my brother's keeper.

This idea you guys are perpetrating about these guys being divorced from the horrors of modern life is silly. Simply put this notion first entered into the Western language when priests encountered Native Americans. Looking at them (many of who were naked) they assumed that these people were living in an Edenesque state before the fall. Their life had none of the poisons of civilization. Read de Casas and you'll see exactly the same tripe people are saying in this thread. Rousseau picked it up this dichotomized hierarch between spiritual/primitive and corrupt/civilization for his own purposes.

But, you know what, these are people not cartoon characters. People die from easily preventable dieseases without modern medicine. You are in favor of killing these people pure and simple. If we can stop someone from dying of a broken arm, and you're not willing to because you like having cute little Rousseauian noble savage that tries to down a helicopter with arrows, then wow.

No one is going to put a gun to their head and say, "here is medicine that will keep your seven year old kid from dying" either give it to him or I shoot you. That's certainly not what I'm arguing. What I am saying is that we should give them the choice. Not to do so would be acting like their "daddy."

[edit on 31-5-2008 by XBadger]

Wow brilliant images if real!

This is so like us -> Extraterrestrials. We sit and discuss daily on here how if there is alien life we would want it to reveal itself to us - maybe they have the same wish? My personal opinion is that the world is broken and it doesn't make sense to try and sell a broken system to a community that really doesn't need it.

Perhaps their concept of life and death is completely different to what we perceive and therefore medicine isn't a requirement to their community. Don't forget that our "family ties" are so strong because of all the threat the media pushes on us to make us conform to their ideologies. They have no other way to get to us so they (they being the repulsive little puppet bureaucrats playing our god) threaten that which is closest to us.

T

reply to post by Beelzebubba


Thats great! Now maybe we should leave them alone!

Originally posted by DuneKnight
this cultural relativism thing gotta stop and what matters is basic human rights which insist that no man should suffer and leaving them to believe in falsehoods such as witchcraft is inhumane because they probably do punish others unfairly.
...
u drink that starbucks coffee right now not knowing how good u got it, u dont have to live under fear from being ostracized, or being a mutilated woman, or for giving up your daughters as gifts to some exalted tribal leader.

Although I understand (and somewhat agree) with your position, I think that your opinion about these Indians' culture is also the victim of stereotyping.

If you are interested in these people try to learn a little about them, anthropology in small doses is not bad.

I don't know about this tribe, but usually the Amazonian Indians are not adepts of witchcraft (unless you consider animism, their most common religion, witchcraft). They do not mutilate anyone and they do not offer their daughters to tribal leaders.

Also, and this was one of the things that they saw from the aeroplane, there is no reason for outside intervention because they look healthy and more numerous than before, showing that their way of living is working.

This is definitely fascinating!
Let's just hope seeing a gigantic metal insect in the air is the last thing they encounter that potentially corrupts their culture or way of thinking...

I just found this thread and have not read all the posts but personally I would not want to be deprived of ATS and my computer and all the other modern convienances that enhance my life just so someone could have the satisfaction of keeping me in a pure unmodernized state. I say we rescue them and show them the wonders the world has to offer. I enjoy learning just for the sake of knowing and who are we to decide they should not have the benefits and joys of education? They aren't some high school science project. They're humans the same as us and they should at least be made aware that there's a different world that they could be made a part of if they wanted.

I just imagine this is the exact situation the Aliens are in. They are probably arguing the same points whether or not to make contact with us, and us seeing UFO's is just like this Tribe seeing a Helicopter.

Oh the Irony.

Now that i think about it, if the aliens do make contact with us, they probably will kill off a massive amount of us, with thier diseases, but would it be worth it for the exchange of technology?

This is a very hard debate,perhaps thats why it's takeing them so long to make toal contact and reveal themselves to the entire world. So they abduct us and see what types of diseases we might have that could harm them, and what they might have that would harm us.

The superior alien's obviously realize the huge implications of full disclosure, but some of you so called civilized humans are ready to go into this tribe's little hut over night without knowing the FIRST damn thing about them.

I suggest you screw your head on straight DuneKnight, you know nothing of these people. Saying they are sacrificing eachother, where did you happen by that bit of information?

We either

A)Leave them be

or

B)Think long and hard before jumping the gun. If we do decide to contact them, it needs to be done VERY carefully. Use our technology to study them from afar and see exactly if they are dieing VERY young, (all those folks looked middle age to me). Or sacraficing eachother. We need to be informed before we can even think about makeing a decision.

Just doing this daytime fly over in a chopper could have messed up thier whole belief system already. Sheesh people are so damn stupid sometimes, only thinking of themselves, or thinking they can save the world, well ya know some people don't fecking wanna be saved. They were shooting wooden arrows at a frigging helicopter. You know how messed up they probably are now after that little photo shoot. Just so some magazine could make some money.

[edit on 31-5-2008 by Nola213]

It's wild just to imagine what they think when they see such technology. What do they think when they see high-flying aircraft or satellites passing by? If you were in their shoes the world would be a pretty &@*$#! scary PLACE after seeing all this and then a giant, roaring UFO right over your home with humanoid-looking people inside..

-ChriS

This must be what the aliens are thinking when they see us looking back up at them in their weird UFOs...

Just caught this link through c2c. I am so deeply touched. My heart feels tight and I am very very concerned. I will go to bed now and just pray. What a beautiful and mysterious world we share. So much to be learned from the true and untouched inhabitants such as these people. Send them love lots of love and light. .

"and in this episode of 'real survivor' we will see if Jogabu can defeat the anaconda before he gets eaten by the crocodile."

classic-- upper class people like to be entertained in the same way psychologists take pleasure in finding insane patients."

Are you on drugs?

In fact no you are just a dcik looking for an argument so night night. I hope these people never meet people like you.

Bye.

I really think it's arrogant to think we have any business meddling in their affairs. (outside of fulfilling selfish interests, or gaining notoriety for "being the first" to ruin their very delicate, probably now already damaged, existence.)

I can't believe that in this day and age, we still have people with this Old World elitism and desire for conquest, along with thinking we need to "educate the savages" or something-- but only to let them share in the BOUNTIES of our wonderful culture... Oh yes, they haven't lived 'til they've had a Big Mac and watched Ren & Stimpy!

BAH!!!

(PS: I like Ren & Stimpy...)

This isn't some whole anti-western argument, but an argument against the absurd notion that they ever have or ever will NEED us interfering in their lives, and destroying one of the few pure, "untouched" (or at least mostly untouched) tribes left!!!

Do YOU like the thought of government officials keeping tabs on you? Certainly not... I mean, obviously they don't see it that way, but it's the same crap, you know?

I'm curious how we know that they don't know about us. Sure, WE haven't contacted them. But surely other tribes in the area have? And surely there's some grapevine through which they've heard of advanced civilizations outside their "world."

They could have just as easily been holding up those bows and thinking, "Oh snap! They found us! Get ready to kill them if they land!"

reply to post by Beelzebubba


i say leave these people alone...they haven't been seen for a reason..and they're surviving on their on and content on there way of life - all it takes is a bunch of scientist and government officials to learn their way of life so they can still their cures and knowledge and then burn down their homes ..WE'RE THE REAL SAVAGES !!!

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


I don't think this a matter of bashing westernization or wanting to revert to a simpler way of life. I, for one, love many of the mod cons provided to me and my family. But the effects of having to come to terms with a world that is so far beyond their comprehension could be devestating.

Take a look at other so called "primitive" cultures that have had the benefit of being "saved" by western culture.

The Eskimo, the Australian Aboriginal, the Native American, the people of Papua New Guinea, etc...

Alcoholism, drug abuse, violence, are all endemic in these societies today. Many wish they had never been brought into our culture. As their societies implode, they blame modernism.

The argument can be made that certain barbarisms are being commited and these people are as deserving of basic human rights as anyone. But the barbarities that lay in wait within our culture could be even worse for them. When they are turned out onto the street to fend for themselves in some Brazilian ghetto, who is going to be there to protect their human rights?





[edit on 1/6/2008 by Beelzebubba]