Cop Pepper Sprays, Punches, Nearly Breaks Girl's Arm During Curfew Arrest

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
I've lived in da ghetto for years.

Where spaghetti flies and kids come out at night,
in da ghettooo
in da ghettooooooo.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And that is all they are in opinions offered for discussion.

But............. If that was your daughter. Seriously image your child (if you have one) in that situation. Sure, your child would never act like that or be out after curfew, right? But if she was in that situation do you think you could personalize it enough to have some kind of empathy for extreme behavior.

Really, as mentioned earlier, how hard could it have been for him to cuff that skinny girl?

If he isn't trained well enough to cuff her two wrists then he doesn't need to be traveling alone because he may have gotten hurt had it been an average sized male he was trying to arrest.

He established her defiance in the beginning by hurting her arm twisting it back to high.

Originally posted by dntwastetime
I agree with boondock ,that it is time after all these incidents for the police to have intensive grappling, and peaceful manipulating MANDITORY by really good instructors.

i agree. it would be a tremendous help....watch the vid the dude above you posted....it looks to me like the cop had NO IDEA of what to do other than try to reach for his piece. dude had his back and was whailing on him.
it would have been nice if the cop knew a basic reversal or toss. at least to get the guy off till he can get his weapon.

instead, he took a beat down.

Originally posted by Boondock78
can you answer me now?

do you think putting officers through these types of courses is a bad idea?

Not at all,

Any and all training that would help the officers to do their job in the safest possible way

And minimizes the risk to themselves and possible suspects is something that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Should it be mandatory? I can't say, I think it should be decided by the local governments since they are more aware of budget concerns etc. I definitely don't want the federal government handing down this kind of mandate.

Thanks for your response to my question.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Really, as mentioned earlier, how hard could it have been for him to cuff that skinny girl?

If he isn't trained well enough to cuff her two wrists then he doesn't need to be traveling alone because he may have gotten hurt had it been an average sized male he was trying to arrest.

.

this i agree with....cop obviously didn't know what he was doing and imo, if the grown man can't cuff the 100lb teenage female, then something is wrong here.
he had her left arm and his right arm was free to reach and spray her....had he grabbed her right wrist in the correct spot, he could have cranked her right back and had her cuffed in a second.

if this area is such a high crime horrible area, why is this guy patrolling by himself?

It should be understood that many officers do enroll in defense training classes. But they pay for it out of pocket.

However it should also be understood that in those classes they teach you to disable someone using the same tactics the officer used -- inflicting pain on a sensitive joint like the elbow or shoulder with minimal damage.

>
Although as in such cases as in that last video, if the cop is forced into a position of defense he failed somewhere in the situation. If he had his gun drawn on the suspect when ordering him to step out of the vehicle, he wouldn't have been attacked.

[edit on 6-10-2007 by apc]

reply to post by JacKatMtn


and thank you.
i do think it should be mandatory cause of the nature of the job..my wife is a PT and has to do so many hours of continuing education every year....i think it should be the same type of system for the cops.
basic program learned at the academy and say, 1 day a week for 2 hours a day spent at the training center...not just learning holds but you know, maybe hit the tread mill.
just kep yourself in shape.....this is my feeling anyway.

i know i would much prefer to cough up extra tax monies to put cops through programs like this verssus paying up to give them more 'weapons'.

this day in age, it is needed...
for the suspect and for the cop. both with benefit, imo

thanks again for answering me

Originally posted by dntwastetime

Well why was he alone then? Anytime I see cops in high crime areas they are rolling 2 deep usually with shotguns, and other cars and paddywagons in the immediate area.

Because down here we don’t have the budget of places like they do up north in the big cities. In Florida the only time you see two police officers in a car together is when one is a rookie with a training officer.

Originally posted by apc
It should be understood that many officers do enroll in defense training classes. But they pay for it out of pocket.

However it should also be understood that in those classes they teach you to disable someone using the same tactics the officer used -- inflicting pain on a sensitive joint like the elbow or shoulder with minimal damage.

i already acknowledged that many do enroll in these types of classes. that said, many do not.
i also mentioned a reimbursment program, maybe...

i don't think they would be teaching the same tactics he used.....had he known the correct tactics, he could have got her right arm to behind her back with relative ease.
who teaches the classes? what are their qualifications?
how long to the officers train for? what is the program?

lots of ins and outs.

i think the system needs a rework

reply to post by defcon5


i grew up in florida...st pete to be exact.

cops rolled 2 deep all the time....

i still say if this was such a 'crazy hood' he would not have been alone, but that beside the point.

IF the 'hood' is that bad then again, the system needs a rework cause he should not have been out there by himself.

Originally posted by apc
Although as in such cases as in that last video, if the cop is forced into a position of defense he failed somewhere in the situation. If he had his gun drawn on the suspect when ordering him to step out of the vehicle, he wouldn't have been attacked.

i agree. that said, had the cop knew some/a few reversals and such, 'maybe' he would not have taken a beat down.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by KaiBosh

 

Originally posted by KaiBosh
Are you people seeing a pattern in all of the police abuse videos that have been surfacing lately? In every case, the person was completely innocent of any crime, and yet they are being jumped on by a cop.

This is absolutely untrue; in almost every video the person has broken the law, and is resisting arrest. The difference between some of these videos and others, is whether or not excessive force was used, or the person was still harmed after being subdued. In this instance the girl was breaking a law; she was out beyond curfew at the least. It’s up to a court to decide if they feel the arrest was warranted, and a law has been proven to have been broken.

Therein lays a lot of the problem with what goes on during arrests. People feel that when an officer is arresting them, they still have some story to tell in an attempt to be let go. This is where the resisting starts. In almost every case, you can hear the person begging to not be arrested, or stating they did not do anything. Again this is up to a judge to decide, not a law enforcement officer. If an officer decides they have sufficient cause to arrest you, you need to shut up and go along, trying to negotiate with the officer or resist only gets you in worse trouble. There is nothing you are going to tell an arresting officer that is going to make them change their mind and let you go once the cuffs come off their belt.

No I think he has a point and it seems that there has been alot of suspect happings with police of late. I was waiting for the one person to speak out against this event. I see alot of people in here who are just falling in and Kaibosh has a point seems some of you just fall in behind the "law" on this case. There area thousand reasons she could be resisting abusive parents. etc. This could be any one of your kids if you have them. America is being turned into a police state at a snails pace so it doesn't alert the masses. I just hope some of you will stop hitting the snooze button in time.

Originally posted by Boondock78
this i agree with....cop obviously didn't know what he was doing and imo, if the grown man can't cuff the 100lb teenage female, then something is wrong here.

I am just curious, have you ever tried it?
Maybe you should get some more experience in the world before making statements like this. If you have too many confrontations with police to get on a force as a reserve, try volunteering at your local hospital and do a few “Mr Strong” codes…

Originally posted by Boondock78
reply to post by defcon5

 

i grew up in florida...st pete to be exact.

cops rolled 2 deep all the time....

Well its not been that way since I moved here in the late 80’s.
I know one officer who was a training officer with HCSO, and he is the only person I ever knew to have a second officer in the car. The only time you have two officers if is one is training, or if one is a reserve officer which cannot patrol alone.

reply to post by defcon5

Well this is the main issue I think, organise high crime area patrols into what is like a operation of several assets working in unison, always have backup officer ,and preventative manditory manipulation submissions training. They are printing the money like toilet paper, they give the illegals stacks of money, where is the money for the officers so the do not get into situations like this anymore. No thats not the agenda to help the police, just thin them out till they create incidents like this .The agenda is too add more criminals first,while waving an american flag in front of our face to justify everything.Lower IQ's now is the hiring premium.Less cops less training less brainpower more Illegals and drugs=More crime happens so we cry for more police. Its all Mind Control to the police as well as there superiors.This police thing goes right to the top, and it is a scientificaly masterminded plan we are witnessing unfolding.Besides all that yang, this is a wakeup call to the police admin Get your cops some martial arts training!! lets keep the amount of cops we have, and make them more effective individually with out training them the public is the enemy.
D











[edit on 6-10-2007 by dntwastetime]

Under the circumstances the cop was justified in his actions,I though he was more then patient with her any thing that arose was her fault,he didn't man handle her

reply to post by defcon5


i've got plenty of experince with muay thai/western boxing/bjj/greco and folk wrestling.
i have been on the mats and such hundreds of times....

what do i need to try? i need to try and cuff a 100 pound girl to validate what i am saying?
meh....i know what i am talking about here. if you don't want to believe me or if you want to think i am lying, thats cool.
makes no difference really.

i'm just tossing out ideas for people that care to read them.

Wow…
I just talked to a law enforcement friend of mine down here about this video, and here is what he told me is the “use of force matrix” for the state of Florida. The “Matrix” escalates according to how much a person struggles, an officer is allowed to use as much force as required to restrain the person. Biting (if suspected to have HIV), or kicking an officer in the privates may escalate the situation up to the level of using lethal force. A police officer in this state is “Required” to apply either a Taser, or pepperspray prior to attempting to subdue the suspect with physical force.

It’s a state law…

He told me that he would be happy to give me a copy of the actual state guidelines showing this.

Well lets not forget the cop who went through a Wendys drive through, and told the young woman she gave him the wrong change, she said no I did not. He got out of the car, went inside and proceeded to arrest her, in the process he tazed her. When the video of the scene was played back the cop was wrong, and she had given him the correct change. This man should not be alowed to carrie a weapon. He should not be a cop.
How about the corrections officers that beat a young black man to death while a female attendant watched.
There are good cops out there, I know a couple, but there are far more bad, prejudice, ignorant and just plain hate filled people who are cops than there are good guys out there.
I am sure to a degree that the movie Crash makes a valid point that cops see alot of crap out there and get tired of it, and eventually loose sight of what they are really there for. To Protect and To Serve. Naybe they should get re-evaluated more often or be made to change jobs more often so the same guys dont see the same things day after day year after year.
They need to stop protecting us from pot heads and start protecting us from bad cops. Our prisons are filled with minor drug offenders, but serial killers, petophiles and armed robbers are all around us.
The problem is its less dangerous to chase minor drug offenders than it is the others, plus the druggies pay their fines and create revenue for the system. the others dont.
System of a Down: Prison song
They try to build a prison
for you and me to live in.

This cop ought to be gutted like a carp for this.
If I saw a cop doing this to a kid I'd take his gun and shoot him in the face.