Cop Pepper Sprays, Punches, Nearly Breaks Girl's Arm During Curfew Arrest

Originally posted by Omega99
reply to post by AndrewTB

 

True. His strength is much greater than hers. He could've used other restraining techniques instead of almost breaking her arm and punching her in the face.

You must have missed the part where he kindly asked her (even including the keyword please) not to resist. An officer is trained to escalate a situation only as needed you can clearly see it in this video. HE HAD NO OTHER OPTIONS.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen


you make good points too.

while i am not saying the cops need to be ice cream and kisses with people, it does help sometimes to give a little explanation.

simply telling them 'look man, you're gonna sit in the back of the car, get a ticket or this or that', that would definately help ease situations...
people get freaked when they think they are going to JAIL
they think prison and terrible things and their dog and their parent and what will the neighbors think...

unless you're out there getting retarded, you're gonna get booked in, booked out and in court the next day or something....having that told to you if even in a fast way, would help sometimes i think...

Some of ya'll need perspective.
Here's a brief editorial from Port St. Lucie.
Ft. Pierce is just outside of Port St. Lucie.

Editorial: Time is right for youth curfew in Port St. Lucie

The Port St. Lucie City Council should adopt a curfew for teenagers in the city.

That is not a knee-jerk reaction to an isolated tragedy — the late night-early morning stabbing death of a 16-year-old boy — but a recognition that too many young people are on the streets when they should not be, increasing the potential for criminal activity by them and increasing the potential they may become crime victims.

It is also recognition that the city is experiencing an increase in street gang activity for which law enforcement is just beginning to recognize with the seriousness deserved.

Originally posted by AndrewTB
One must account that there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of armed police officers in the states.

Their job isnt an easy one including being treated by crap by the general education, being lied too on a person by person basis, being shot at, long 12 hour shifts on top of being on call 24/7. From my limited experience this is all I can come up with.

i agree with these points. it's tough..

if they can't handle it then they need to quit or they need to be given their papers.
just like th eole story with the military, it's no secret what they are getting into when they sign up to be a cop.

i have heard on this board many times that it's the cops job to get home safe to his family....uhhh, no it's not...during that 12 hour shift, the cops job is to do his/her best to protect and serve us....after the shift, i don't care.

see, somewhere along the way here, there is a change.

i'm sure most want to become a cop to do good and serve the community(at first).
then, after 3 years they just wanna get paid.
then, after 8 years they are just trying to get home safe.
then, after 12 years they are so burnt out they are tazing people for the wrong reasons.

i know they are just human but this is one of the few professions where these types of things have to be unacceptable.

it's not their job to not get hurt and come home safe. they are trained(there is a laugh) and paid to do the dangerous things that need done to protect a community...
that is their job.

reply to post by AndrewTB


He had other options, like calmly explaining what is going to happen to her if she doesn't cooperate. Not scare her by treating her like a criminal. You have to take in consideration she is a child. And children do dumb things, like sneak out at night. The child was scared, that is why she reacted the way she did in the beginning, before he used excessive force.

Originally posted by Omega99
reply to post by AndrewTB

 

He had other options, like calmly explaining what is going to happen to her if she doesn't cooperate. Not scare her by treating her like a criminal. You have to take in consideration she is a child. And children do dumb things, like sneak out at night. The child was scared, that is why she reacted the way she did in the beginning, before he used excessive force.

Ignorance is bliss my man. What precedes the video is excluded from the video. Its almost always is in these police "BRUTALITY" videos.

This man's life is ruined for following operational procedures. His family is also going to have to put up with it. People never look at it from this aspect.

Originally posted by Omega99
The child was scared, that is why she reacted the way she did in the beginning, before he used excessive force.

We don't know that.
She could have been on meth.
She could have been hooking.
She could have broken into someone's house or car.

The simple fact is that we don't have enough information on this to make any real judgments.

It's rotten to see a kid treated that way, but I've seen kids around here that should be treated lots worse. Yes, even some of the young girls are totally out of control.

Originally posted by Boondock78

Originally posted by AndrewTB
One must account that there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of armed police officers in the states.

Their job isnt an easy one including being treated by crap by the general education, being lied too on a person by person basis, being shot at, long 12 hour shifts on top of being on call 24/7. From my limited experience this is all I can come up with.

i agree with these points. it's tough..

if they can't handle it then they need to quit or they need to be given their papers.
just like th eole story with the military, it's no secret what they are getting into when they sign up to be a cop.

i have heard on this board many times that it's the cops job to get home safe to his family....uhhh, no it's not...during that 12 hour shift, the cops job is to do his/her best to protect and serve us....after the shift, i don't care.

see, somewhere along the way here, there is a change.

i'm sure most want to become a cop to do good and serve the community(at first).
then, after 3 years they just wanna get paid.
then, after 8 years they are just trying to get home safe.
then, after 12 years they are so burnt out they are tazing people for the wrong reasons.

i know they are just human but this is one of the few professions where these types of things have to be unacceptable.

it's not their job to not get hurt and come home safe. they are trained(there is a laugh) and paid to do the dangerous things that need done to protect a community...
that is their job.

You make some valid points. But if everyone quit their job for being stressful nobody would be working.

The point which I will refute is that these guys spend their lives protecting others. IN RETURN they get crappy pay, mistreatment by a majority of society and then what the job entails.

In the case of the University Of Florida student being tasered it was also justified but again honest officers reputations were ruined.

People seem to forget cops arent supposed to be cheery good looking firemen. They are here to ENFORCE LAWS as he was doing in this case and protect others from crime.

There was a murder not to long ago not far from where this girl was. Gangs are rampant all over Florida. TRUST ME IT WAS FOR HER OWN GOOD. Especially since the parent factor is most likely lacking.

I will leave with this... I seldom see people have such a delayed reaction to being peppered. I am not making accusations but it would not amaze me if the child was under the influence of something. None of us know what precedes the video starting so nobody can say for sure in terms of morality and the subject being scared and not told whats going to happen.

[edit on 10/6/2007 by AndrewTB]

reply to post by AndrewTB


Procedure? Striking a 15 year old child in the face is procedure? Besides, all he calmly asked her to do was to put her hands behind her back and not resist. People like you are ignorant to the fact that this "CHILD" is scared out of her mind, and all the officer did was make the situation worse by using excessive force.

Since chokeholds have been brought up I felt I had to mention this - the reason people have died being choked out has nothing to do with 'improper technique'. The fact is, there is a very slim but real possibility that when someone is choked out with pressure points on the carotid that the heart will stop beating - a mixed signal from the brain perhaps that short circuits the autonomic systems. When this happens even well trained paramedics using CPR and paddles have been unable to start the heart again - the reasons are unknown.

This is the same reason 'breath play' is so dangerous as a sexual act. People can be experts but the fact remains that when someone is forced into unconsciousness there is a real chance that they may die. If you notice the police forces have been all but banned from using chokeholds unless it is an absolute last resort.

As for this scrawny girl, the cop seemed to be panicking himself when he was unable to subdue her - but he reacted poorly. If he can't even control a girl half his size what hope does he have to arrest a non compliant well muscled male? I guess he would be pulling out his gun next.

Originally posted by Omega99
reply to post by AndrewTB

 

Procedure? Striking a 15 year old child in the face is procedure? Besides, all he calmly asked her to do was to put her hands behind her back and not resist. People like you are ignorant to the fact that this "CHILD" is scared out of her mind, and all the officer did was make the situation worse by using excessive force.

Growing up in a poor neighborhood and being a somewhat troubled child i've seen it from the other side of the train yard. Please spare me YOUR ignorance as I don't lack any when it comes to this particular case.

The 1 punch (more like a smack) that was thrown was thrown towards the elbow. This is again a point where an officer and other people trained in security are trained to hit when trying to get cuffs on someone. Hence getting it under control shortly thereafter.

The officer clearly didnt want to do it. The arm twisting was contributed by the so called child. I respect your opinion, I really do. We are all entitled to our beliefs so dont let it rub you the wrong way.

I believe to many people are caught up on this whole brutality/race/pirson planet type stuff. They seldomly stop to look at facts.

Would you prefer the officer release her and let her run into the streets?

I give you this final scenario. Lets say the cop decided to give up when she first decided to resist and let her go.

1 hr later shes found dead. Again the cops screwed for not doing his job.

Lets say the cop slows down and explains to her whats going on, yet she strill struggles. So he decides to call backup and then you have 2 men twisting not only arms but legs too due to the child struggling.

With what you have to say so far there is no right option for the cops. The only thing that would leave the cops with no liability is to simply not exist and in that case the whole community would have their panties in a bunch when crime overtakes it.

Originally posted by KaiBosh
Since chokeholds have been brought up I felt I had to mention this - the reason people have died being choked out has nothing to do with 'improper technique'. The fact is, there is a very slim but real possibility that when someone is choked out with pressure points on the carotid that the heart will stop beating - a mixed signal from the brain perhaps that short circuits the autonomic systems. When this happens even well trained paramedics using CPR and paddles have been unable to start the heart again - the reasons are unknown.

This is the same reason 'breath play' is so dangerous as a sexual act. People can be experts but the fact remains that when someone is forced into unconsciousness there is a real chance that they may die. If you notice the police forces have been all but banned from using chokeholds unless it is an absolute last resort.

As for this scrawny girl, the cop seemed to be panicking himself when he was unable to subdue her - but he reacted poorly. If he can't even control a girl half his size what hope does he have to arrest a non compliant well muscled male? I guess he would be pulling out his gun next.

I have a 14 year old sister who at time acts out. Don't let the age or size fool you. Women are naturally the hardest to deal with when dealing with arrests. I will gladly face a full grown man before I face a woman. I have no experience personally with arrests but have been into my fair share of scuffles so I know from experience in that case.

I recall doing a paper for school on it before.

[edit on 10/6/2007 by AndrewTB]

[edit on 10/6/2007 by AndrewTB]

Originally posted by apc
What a stupid little twit. I wanted to reach into my screen and smack the drama queen out of her.

The officer gave her more than enough chances to cooperate. He was wise to make sure every second was caught on camera.

Using a taser would have gone too far. This level of force was 100% justified.

+1

I agree

One thing I never understood about the law system is how black and white it is.

Breaking curfew against the law? Yup. DUI? Yup. Cold-blooded murder? Yup.

Does that mean in an instance where a teen was resisting arrest for breaking the law via curfew, he or she should be subject to the same treatment if he or she was resisting arrest as a known DUI or suspected murderer?

Most logical people would say well um and at least think about that for a second. I would say that AT THE VERY LEAST there would be a stronger bias on the part of an officer if the offender was a suspected murderer than if they were breaking curfew. Hell I would.

The problem comes when you say "well the law says anyone resisting arrest is to be treated with escalating levels of force." What about people that are REALLY doing no wrong and are being wrongfully arrested? Or those who are unaware of the law and have no idea what is going on? Should they be subject to the same levels of force as a suspected felon?

I understand to protect themselves the cops have to treat all "unknowns" as "hostile". But doesn't that mentality just morph into a police state over time?

I'll be honest with you ... if a cop came up to me threatening arrest my first instinct would not be to put my hands up - rather I would question it. If I truly believed when I was 16 that there was no curfew in my town (there was) I would have resisted arrest. I would not have bit an officer, but I'm not going to go down and roll over for something just because someone else says I should.

I guess my main problem isn't this video (proper force was probably used, personally I think I could have taken her down with a sharp knee to the proper place as Intrepid mentioned earlier) and whether or not the law she was arrested for was proper (it is .... curfews are in place for a reason) ... it's where questioning/resisting those in "authority" leaves us. I mean will YOU put your hands behind your back if they attempt to arrest you for watering your lawn on an even-numbered day? Just because a person somewhere in another county wrote it in a book? And be ok with a seperated shoulder when you resist arrest because you think the law is frivolous?

This is how people in this country need to start thinking.

where is the brutality? all i see is a woman resisting arrest, assaulting an officer and exaggerating the situation.

her arm is perfectly fine. my sister was that skinny and her arm went a lot higher. skinny people are very flexible. why didn't she just put her arm behind her back like the officer told her to do? he even said he didn't want to hurt her because of her small stature. the officer is struggling not to hurt her. she then decides to bite him(assault). i hope she doesn't have any diseases.

all could have been avoided if she didn't resist and didn't assault the officer.

no brutality at all. just another dumb punk who feels that laws don't apply to them.

Based on the video I saw, the officer was within his rights to attempt to mace the girl. She was not cooperating, she was breaking curfew. While he was trying to restrain her, she tried to bite his forearm, there were no gloves there. She was not going for his hand. He had every right to pepper spray her.

As mentioned earlier a human bite is worse then most animal bites. Who is to say this individual does not have some sort of disease that could infect the officer? I say pepper spray her.

The girl that got her arm broken for not picking up all the cake didn't get any attention because there was no debate it was open shut. She was brutalized and they should be charged. Instead the girl was charged her mom was charged the guy that recorded was charged and his sister was charged.

This tape however was on AC 360 why? Like the whole Jena 6 protests there were thousands of supporters fighting for a detail in the charging of the 6 youths, however they beat a guy up so there is debate in the issue.

In this situation the cop of course as usual uses pepper spray without hesitation on a young girl, however she bit him ahh once again debate.

This is propaganda but it is propaganda that helps the police because in the end the comments and arguments that she bit him so she deserved it will win.

We are being acclimated to accept police violence. Why did this make it on the news and not the cake incident which was incredibly violent. I know it got on some small news shows but not cnn.

Whatever the outcome of this new incident i still don't think screaming in the airport is a capital crime deserving of a death sentence i don't care how loud she is.

Here is the cake incident video. You tube made it so you have to be a member to view it but you can watch on this page.

Takes the cake

Originally posted by Fiverz
One thing I never understood about the law system is how black and white it is.

Breaking curfew against the law? Yup. DUI? Yup. Cold-blooded murder? Yup.

Does that mean in an instance where a teen was resisting arrest for breaking the law via curfew, he or she should be subject to the same treatment if he or she was resisting arrest as a known DUI or suspected murderer?

your entire argument misses the point

she resisted arrest that in and of itself is a felony in most juristictions

and resisting arrest gives the arresting officer the right to use what ever means are required to bring the arrestee under his lawful control

what would you do - allow any one who resists to escape ?????????

and also most people who resist arrest or attempt to flee when questioned about seemingly minor violations turn out to be either :

in possesion of controlled sunstances [ drugs ] or prohibited items [ weapons or the tools of a burbular ] or stolen goods

to be wanted on arrest warrents , breach of bail etc etc

that is why they flee , attempt to flee or resist

Originally posted by KaiBosh
Since chokeholds have been brought up I felt I had to mention this - the reason people have died being choked out has nothing to do with 'improper technique'. The fact is, there is a very slim but real possibility that when someone is choked out with pressure points on the carotid that the heart will stop beating -

what would you say? about as slim a chance of a tazer killing someone?

i still say with proper training in the proper way to apply these holds will help.
you don't have to use a choke to actually choke someoe 'out'
you can use it to manipulate them/hold them too.

reply to post by Beachcoma


When I was growing up curfews were common, at least here in the south.

These stories grow increasingly more disturbing. I can only credit it to the climate of fear and dread that exists in this country... when gangs are rampant and seem impossible to eradicate and the government itself indulges in fear mongering while at the same time reducing (due to funding cuts) the number of police on the streets.