Trumps says US could sever all ties with China

a reply to: Jay-morris

Do you think your government is squeaky clean too, Jay Morris?

Once again I hate my government, at least the majority of it. That still doesn't absolve China or have anything to do with the whataboutisms. There are a million topics exploring how dumpy 90%+ of the US government is.

Yet when China is called out and exposed, its either 1) RACIST! or 2) what-about XYZ.

The US is NOT China. I want the US to do well and succeed. I do NOT want china to do well or succeed (or even survive as a communist country). I believe the eradication of communism globally is the only true path to realizing freedom and NATSEC

I personally would like to see the ideas of communism and socialism erased from history. So although this isn't a struggle of good vs. evil, it IS a struggle between Better vs. Worse

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: JBurns

Our own History is not exactly squeaky clean JBurns, not by a long shot.

China won't touch Taiwan else risk WW3 as to Hong Kong, its there's now, we only rented it, as unfortunate as the case may be, they get to govern it as they see fit, same as we get to govern our own nations, well at least "they" get to govern our nations.

Of course it isn't, we've done horrible things as a country. I think they all have. I don't dispute that. Like I always say if I could erase 90% of our government with the snap of my fingers I'd have done it years ago (decades even)

I just oppose that idea that our own shortcomings somehow mean we can't call China out for theirs

a reply to: JBurns

Do you think your government is squeaky clean too, Jay Morris?

No, they certainly are not!

Once again I hate my government, at least the majority of it. That still doesn't absolve China or have anything to do with the whataboutisms. There are a million topics exploring how dumpy 90%+ of the US government is.

You posted the terrible things the chinese givernment has done, and I brought to your attention the terrible things your givernment has done.

And this is not about which one is more evil or terrible, evil is evil. Because the thousands of deaths caused by your givernment outside of America, does not make it less worse.

If someone kills 10 people, and another person kills 15, dies that make the person who killed 15 more evil?

Yet when China is called out and exposed, its either 1) RACIST! or 2) what-about XYZ.

No it's not about that. You know, in the last few months, on here we have seen people bring racist towards China, people saying we should nuke them, saying they are evil and need to be stopped, yet, there people never bring up their own governments horrors, as if it's ok because it's not as bad as China.

Lime I said, conditioned patrioism, and the fact we never learn and still let sociopaths rule us, will be our downfall.

Imagine, such a small percentage of people (governments) control most of the population. They make us believe that killing innocent people is ok, and war is okay.

It's not okay, but we fall for it time and time again because of our patrioism.

a reply to: JBurns

I just oppose that idea that our own shortcomings somehow mean we can't call China out for theirs

No one is saying you cannot call out China and the terrible things their government has done. They deserve it, just like your givernment and mine need to be called out for all the terrible things they have done.

How many threads do you get on here about your givernment and the terrible things they have done, and still doing?

Yet we have threads on a daily basis from patriots saying how evil China is, and how they need to be stopped.

It's pointing the finger, and ignoring your own governments horrors. Not just you, most conditioned patriots do this ftom all over the world.

This is how wars and invasions are easily started.

a reply to: Jay-morris

I don't really disagree with any of that. I support my country fully but only very mildly its government and only because I happen to like its chief executive.

How many wars has President Trump started? How many wars has he averted? At least 3.

It's pointing the finger, and ignoring your own governments horrors. Not just you, most conditioned patriots do this ftom all over the world.

I'd love to see the past few administrations prosecuted for what they've done. I just see no present pathway to doing that so I don't harp on it. But I'd love to see it

a reply to: JBurns

Calling them out and offering up criticism is one thing, severing all trade, and ties with them, is a complete and utter different kettle of fish, and somewhat untenable given the trade already in place, from both sides, and the global environment in which we exist.

a reply to: JAGStorm
Yes and not be so friendly with other nations who ke working with China.

It is best to halt the growing wealth of the CCP. I feel for the Chinese people though.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Jay-morris

I don't really disagree with any of that. I support my country fully but only very mildly its government and only because I happen to like its chief executive.

How many wars has President Trump started? How many wars has he averted? At least 3.

It's pointing the finger, and ignoring your own governments horrors. Not just you, most conditioned patriots do this ftom all over the world.

I'd love to see the past few administrations prosecuted for what they've done. I just see no present pathway to doing that so I don't harp on it. But I'd love to see it

The way trump is talking, and the way he has his followers pumped over this, then if he did decide to invade China, or whatever, people would not better an eyelid.

And this is the problem. These people have the power to do whatever they choose. Most invasions in the last few decades has not been about freeing people, or getting rid of a bad dictator, there has always been a gender behind it.

China is the new Russia, and we will see a lot of BS media from the west regarding China to rally the western people. The Chinese givernment will use the same propaganda too.

It's all about patrioism. This is their conditioning tool to control people and get away with what they do.

a reply to: Jay-morris

I think the issue is that China has committed a grave wrong on the rest of the globe in the last few months.

I know that as an American, even though I am well aware of the slavery in our early years, the Trail of Tears, Custer's Last Stand, the treatment of Japanese-descent Americans during WWII, etc., etc., etc., I get pretty tired of hearing those same things used against us whenever we feel another country has wronged us. We've moved on from all those; let it fade into history.

As for Yemen, my understanding is that we are selling Saudi Arabia weapons. OK. They're going to buy them from somewhere, and the Saudi/Yemen conflict is not a potential WWIII spark. It is local, and we do have treaties with Saudi Arabia. With Yemen, not so much. Even if we withheld our weapons technology from Saudi Arabia, would they not get it through other channels? So what you want us to do is to ignore a treaty with an ally for no reason other than to make ourselves feel better about ourselves.

There's no right side or wrong side in such a situation; it all depends on one's point of view. With China, however, it is becoming quite obvious that they purposely lied to and through the WHO and kept other countries, including us, in the dark about a virus that has caused a severe amount of International turmoil (mostly through misinformation and scare tactics, but still much turmoil). That's the problem. One can try to bring in other hotspots in the world all day long, and none of it will help the China situation one iota.

It seems your argument is that, since no one is perfect, no one should try to be better. I reject that completely and absolutely.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I think the issue is that China has committed a grave wrong on the rest of the globe in the last few months.

And this is the thing isn't it. No one will turn around and blame our own governments for bow they handled this. Boris Johnson was not taking it seriously when the first infections hit us. And the same with trump. He was smug and joking about it when the infections first hit America. That was not China's fault, but people so want to put all the blame on China.

We have all had a hand in this virus spreading. You cannot blame China for our mistakes too.

There's no right side or wrong side in such a situation; it all depends on one's point of view. With China, however, it is becoming quite obvious that they purposely lied to and through the WHO and kept other countries, including us, in the dark about a virus that has caused a severe amount of International turmoil (mostly through misinformation and scare tactics,

Yeah, I would understand that if trump was not joking and playing down the virus when it hit America. Just have to look at his tweets to realise that. By that time, we all knew what the virus was capable of. Johnson made the same mistake the first month or so after the virus hit.

Thats on us, not China.

That's the problem. One can try to bring in other hotspots in the world all day long, and none of it will help the China situation one iota.

It's not about helping China. It's like as soon as you bring up the bad stuff our governments have done, means that we how sticking up for China.

 seems your argument is that, since no one is perfect, no one should try to be better. I reject that completely and absolutely.

TheRedneck

If you read my posts, obviously that is not what I am saying.

a reply to: TheRedneck

know that as an American, even though I am well aware of the slavery in our early years, the Trail of Tears, Custer's Last Stand, the treatment of Japanese-descent Americans during WWII, etc., etc., etc., I get pretty tired of hearing those same things used against us whenever we feel another country has wronged us. We've moved on from all those; let it fade into history.

We are not talking about 50/60 years ago though. Iraq and Libya was not 50 years. And as for Yemen, your givernment is arming people who are raping and murdering innocent men, women and children.

You think saying "someone needs to by them" means no blood is on your governments hands.

a reply to: Jay-morris

And this is the thing isn't it. No one will turn around and blame our own governments for bow they handled this. Boris Johnson was not taking it seriously when the first infections hit us. And the same with trump. He was smug and joking about it when the infections first hit America. That was not China's fault, but people so want to put all the blame on China.

Nope, that dog don't hunt.

The virus started in Wuhan, China. At that time it could have been constrained internationally if China had not tried to hide its existence. It could have been prepared for better had China not lied about the high contagion factor. It likely would be a footnote in history had China not allowed all international flights to continue while closing domestic flights to and from Wuhan.

The blood is on China's hands. When you refuse to acknowledge that, yes, you are "sticking up for China."

As to how well different world leaders handled this thing, hindsight is 20/20. At the time this began to spread we were told by the WHO that it was no big problem, that it was only localized, that there was no person-person transmission. That's how China portrayed it to the WHO, and the WHO repeated the lies. Now you want to go back and analyze the actions of world leaders based on information they did not have at the time?

Dog. Hunt. Not.

If you read my posts, obviously that is not what I am saying.

Then I would request you to tell us all what exactly it is you are saying. You are faulting other world leaders but at the same time defending the actions of the one country which had the information and the opportunity to stop the virus dead in its tracks. You are complaining about US sales of weapons to a Middle Eastern ally of the US in a thread where people are trying to discuss whether or not China should be cut off economically from the US in punishment for their reckless and wanton disregard for human life.

It certainly sounds like you are saying that the US is not perfect, so why don't we just ignore China.

TheRedneck

a reply to: [post=251

The virus started in Wuhan, China. At that time it could have been constrained internationally if China had not tried to hide its existence. It could have been prepared for better had China not lied about the high contagion factor. It likely would be a footnote in history had China not allowed all international flights to continue while closing domestic flights to and from Wuhan.

You see, you refuse to blame your own governmen. Why were people in the UK crying for a lockdown when the virus hit the UK? Because we knew how deadly it was, yet it took weeks for any sort of Lick down to be in place, which met the virus spread quicker and the UK in the end being the worst in Europe.

And it was exactly the same in America. How you can deny this is beyond me. Our governments messed up on this, and are still messing up on this. That is not China's fault how incompetent our governments were. Instead, people just blame China for absolutly everything.

As to how well different world leaders handled this thing, hindsight is 20/20. At the time this began to spread we were told by the WHO that it was no big problem, that it was only localized, that there was no person-person transmission. That's how China portrayed it to the WHO, and the WHO repeated the lies. Now you want to go back and analyze the actions of world leaders based on information they did not have at the time?

Dog. Hunt. Not.

Wring again! By the time it spread to the UK, we knew exactly what it was, yet, we did not act. If fact, before it hit our shores, the WHO was saying how deadly it could be. This is what got mist people worried because at this time, our leaders were playing it down.

Then I would request you to tell us all what exactly it is you are saying. You are faulting other world leaders but at the same time defending the actions of the one country which had the information and the opportunity to stop the virus dead in its tracks.

You are putting words in my mouth. I am not defending China, I am talking about why the virus spread so quickly in our own countries, and that was because of the mistakes our governments made, but you refuse to acknowledge this.

You are complaining about US sales of weapons to a Middle Eastern ally of the US in a thread where people are trying to discuss whether or not China should be cut off economically from the US in punishment for their reckless and wanton disregard for human life.

Now, this comment above it gold! You talking about China's disregard for human life, yet think it's ok to America to be involved in the Yemen war, that has left thousands of innocent people dead.

Seems like you suffer from conditioned patrioism. Pure example of pointing tigers, yet ignoring your own governments horrors because we'll, it's your government, so that's ok.

It certainly sounds like you are saying that the US is not perfect, so why don't we just ignore China

Sigh

With every post you make, you prove my point. Please tell me where I said we should ignore China?

a reply to: Jay-morris

You see, you refuse to blame your own governmen.

Show me something to blame on them and I will be glad to oblige.

I do blame Pelosi et. al. for ignoring the potential virus in favor of some cockamamie impeachment without a crime exercise in futility when this was starting. I blame the WHO for not investigating on their own and instead listening to China's lies. I blame US media for spreading so much panic that what little information we had was buried in fear-mongering.

Exactly what is it you would have done differently had you been the US President?

Wring again!

I have not yet begun to wring.

Here's a short timeline:

• Jan. 6-8: CDC (US) issues travel warnings for Wuhan, China.
  
• Jan. 7: China admits the WuFlu virus exists.
  
• Jan. 9: China reports first death from the WuFlu.
  
• Jan. 15: China reports second death from the WuFlu.
  
• Jan. 16: CDC begins screening passengers arriving from China.
  
• Jan. 21: WHO confirms human-human transmission is possible, reversing earlier statements.
  
• Jan. 23: WHO director Tedros refuses to acknowledge the WuFlu as an International health concern.
  
• Jan. 28: Tedros meets with Xi Jinping over WuFlu concerns.
  
• Jan. 29: Trump assembles US task force to deal with the WuFlu.
  
• Jan. 30: Tedros declares the WuFlu an International health emergency.
  
• Jan. 31: Trump suspends air travel from China, effective Feb. 2.

Dates taken from here and here.

Now, exactly what would you have done and when would you have done it? Trump had a task force assembled before the WuFlu was even declared a pandemic! He closed travel the next day! And you want me to blame him for... what, again?

You are putting words in my mouth.

I do not believe I have misrepresented anything you have stated in this thread. If anyone wishes to verify that, all the posts are still there.

Now, this comment above it gold! You talking about China's disregard for human life, yet think it's ok to America to be involved in the Yemen war, that has left thousands of innocent people dead.

Where did I say the fighting i Yemen is "OK"? I would prefer there be no fighting in Yemen. I simply stated that Saudi Arabia is a US ally (fact) and that the weapons sales are not unusual (fact). If you want to talk Middle East, please make a thread. China is not in the Middle East.

Please tell me where I said we should ignore China?

You insinuated it in this very post! But, since I'm such a nice guy...

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Seriously? Even 65% of Americans believed their government was too slow to react. I guess they were all nasty trump haters!

link

Jan. 3: A Chinese official officially informs CDC Director Robert Redfield of the outbreak of a respiratory illness in the city of Wuhan. Redfield later relays the information to HHS Secretary Alex Azar, and Azar informs the White House National Security Council.


Early January: Intelligence officials begin offering ominous, classified warnings about the virus to Trump in the President’s Daily Brief. The warnings will persist into February.

Early January: In a report to the director of National Intelligence, a State Department epidemiologist warns that the virus is likely to spread across the globe and could result in a pandemic, and the Defense Intelligence Agency’s National Center for Medical Intelligence comes to the same conclusion, per the New York Times.

Jan. 8: The CDC issues its first public warning about the outbreak in China, saying that it is monitoring the situation and that people should take precautions when traveling to Wuhan.

Mid-January: Assistant HHS Secretary for Preparedness and Response Robert Kadlec instructs subordinates to make contingency plans for using the Defense Production Act, which allows the federal government to compel the production of certain materials in a crisis.

Jan. 17: The CDC begins monitoring major airports for passengers arriving from China.

Jan. 18: Azar, who had been trying to speak to Trump about the virus, is finally able to meet with him. Before Azar can begin talking about the virus, though, Trump interjects to ask him about a federal crackdown on vaping.

Jan. 20: Chinese President Xi Jinping says the virus “must be taken seriously,” and Chinese officials confirm the virus can be transmitted via human-to-human contact.

Jan. 21: The first case of the coronavirus is confirmed in the United States, in Seattle.

Jan. 22: Trump makes his first comments about the coronavirus, saying he is not concerned about a pandemic: “No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. … It’s going to be just fine.”

Jan. 23: Chinese officials take the drastic step of shutting down Wuhan. “That was like, whoa,” a senior U.S. official involved in White House meetings later told The Post. “That was when the Richter scale hit 8.”

Jan. 24: A study published by the Lancet suggests the virus may be carried by people without symptoms.

Jan. 26: Chinese health officials say the virus is infectious before symptoms show. “From observations, the virus is capable of transmission even during incubation period,” China Health Minister Ma Xiaowei says. “There are hidden carriers.”

Jan. 27: Concerned White House aides meet with then-acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney to get senior officials to pay more attention to the issue. Joe Grogan, the head of the White House Domestic Policy Council, argues it could cost Trump his reelection and says the virus is likely to dominate life in the United States for many months.

Read all of it, and it's quite obvious that more could have been done and sooner. But I think no matter what I post, you will refuse to admit it, so it's pretty much pointless yo debate it with you.

Now, exactly what would you have done and when would you have done it? Trump had a task force assembled before the WuFlu was even declared a pandemic! He closed travel the next day! And you want me to blame him for... what, again?

A lot better than how it was handled, as shown in my link.

I do not believe I have misrepresented anything you have stated in this thread. If anyone wishes to verify that, all the posts are still there

You said

defending the actions of the one country which had the information and the opportunity to stop the virus dead in its tracks.

I am not defending ,anything, so you are putting words in my mouth.

Where did I say the fighting i Yemen is "OK"? I would prefer there be no fighting in Yemen. I simply stated that Saudi Arabia is a US ally (fact) and that the weapons sales are not unusual (fact). If you want to talk Middle East, please make a thread. China is not in the Middle East.

See, you cannot even see how this is wring, and a perfect example of blind patrioism.

a reply to: TheRedneck

You insinuated it in this very post! But, since I'm such a nice guy...

Please post where I said we should ignore all the bad things China does?

a reply to: Jay-morris

There was one question in my post that I wanted to see your answer to: What would you have done differently? I was expecting some sort of answer... reacted earlier, closed airlines earlier, put different people in charge, maybe do the press briefings differently. Nope. I was willing to debate those kind of answers, but those kind of answers weren't forthcoming. Instead you answered:

A lot better than how it was handled, as shown in my link.

Nope. That's not an answer. It's a whine.

All that does is admit to the world that you are one of these people who can only criticize. You can sit there with even the advantage of hindsight and still... still... can't even come up with one thing that you consider to be an inappropriate response. Can't do better? Sit down and shut up. In your case, you certainly couldn't do any better because you would have to wait for some Internet web site to tell you what to do while people are dying.

That is the single most pitiful excuse for an answer I could have imagined, and this conversation is now over. You got nothing you can point to that was done improperly or that you would do better. Let the professionals work.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Jay-morris

You are blatantly sticking up for China.

Like it or not the situation is "us vs them"

If you're not with us then you're helping them. Past mistakes aside, this isn't about that.

a reply to: TheRedneck

There was one question in my post that I wanted to see your answer to: What would you have done differently? I was expecting some sort of answer... reacted earlier, closed airlines earlier, put different people in charge, maybe do the press briefings differently. Nope. I was willing to debate those kind of answers, but those kind of answers weren't forthcoming. Instead you answered:

Don't you think that was a bit obvious? He was playing the virus down. He was saying it was not that bad, he was saying thry were on top of it, he was saying it would be fine in a few months, he was not listening to the advice he was been given, the lockdown and social distancing was too last, just like the UK. There is a reason why we have the highest death rates.

It's all in the link! After reading that, if you Seriously think he did not make huge mistakes, then I do not know what else to say.

Nope. That's not an answer. It's a whine.

Nope, it's an answer. You just refuse to listen.

All that does is admit to the world that you are one of these people who can only criticize. 

Seriously?

You can sit there with even the advantage of hindsight and still... still... can't even come up with one thing that you consider to be an inappropriate response

O have come up with a few, but you just do not listen.

Can't do better? Sit down and shut up.

Can you be any more delusional?

In your case, you certainly couldn't do any better because you would have to wait for some Internet web site to tell you what to do while people are dying.

While people were dying in America, Trump was saying everything was going to be ok, and saying stupid stuff like we are on top of it, when clearly they were not. He was arragont and ignorant but this, that much is obvious.

That is the single most pitiful excuse for an answer I could have imagined, and this conversation is now over. You got nothing you can point to that was done improperly or that you would do better. Let the professionals work.

You completly ignored the link, while moaning over and over again that I did not answer you when I did.

Likevi said, you will never admit you are wrong, so this is really pointless!