Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Depends on what you call it "proof".

It's a very subjective matter

a reply to: vinifalou

A nut and bolts theory, should of necessity have
hard proof, if any theory should!

But yes.. this is all so subjective, because its 95% deception
and delusion, which isn't very nuts and boltsy, and the other
5% presents (most of the time) as if it's not nuts and bolts,
what with the shape-shifting into any form, the offering of
cookies and pancakes for people to eat.. all the craziness.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

But as of yet they haven't been disproved so while you are free to take a hard stance on it,it doesn't make it absolute truth.

I totally "get" this is the avenue you've chosen to pursue but there are many trails to explore and I think all avenues worthy of exploring to their logical conclusions. Whatever the facts are, they will "BE" regardless of all our opinions regarding them.

Far as I can tell we're all in this together and I prefer congenial collaboration versus disharmony.

Besides, altho you DID see what you tagged as a UFO it may be you didn't see an actual craft per se but something masquerading as such. Deliberately sending you an excursion of learning something. They do that you know.

a reply to: Caver78

It is true that nuts and bolts disinformation is one of
my hot triggers so to speak. So is Christianity.

In both chases there is an easy to follow trail of
disinformation a mile wide.

Now.. I have nothing against the concept that
nuts and bolts craft exist somewhere in the
Universe.

I also have nothing against the concept of God,
if the concept isn't primitive and harmful.

But the people who just gulp down disinformation
like it's cool aid on a hot day, who actually contribute
little or nothing in terms of thought or action..

They are just victims of the 70 year campaign of
manipulation in the one case, and the 2000 year
plus campaign of delusion in the other case.

i know that it would be a beautiful world if we could
all hug and sing pretty spiritual songs together..

believe me.. I have always wanted to live in that world..

but by being a wuss, and not taking a stand when things
are important -- that is not spiritual -- that is just
selfishness or cowardice.

All that said..

if someone presents once single scintilla of anything interesting,
i'd be the first person to say that I'm wrong, if there is a reason
to say that.

Now if the nuts and bolts folks talked like this:

"1. There is zero evidence we have ever been visited by
biological aliens.
2. There is zero evidence that we have every been vistied
by a nuts and bolts craft.
3. There is zero evidence to support the ETH."

all of which is honest and hard to argue with,

and then said,

"despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary, I still
say the ETH is the correct one due to this one specific
case, with this one specific bit of possible evidence"..

then there would be something to talk about.

But you must admit (and you must because you are
also intelligent),

that it it much more often goes like this:

"I want to believe that UFO Jesus will come and rescue me,
because my life sucks and I want to believe that.".

I have no interest in being huggy when the world is burning..

after we put out the fires, if ever, if we can mange to man
up and stop drinking in all the disinfo,

then I'd be happy to be huggy.. it's my essential nature.

Kev

PS:

I guess I should note.. I'm about to go away for 3 days,
where there is no internet access. Camping!

But I don't want you to think that I'm ignoring any responses
you make.. i'm not..

Also, in case I haven't been clear.. which is certainly possible..

I have changed my view a good bit over the years, mostly as
a result of the great work by MirageMan. I really owe a lot to
him.. without his mountain of evidence that nuts and bolts
UFOs are disinfo, I wouldn't have had evidence for what I
knew to be true.

In the beginning, 5 years ago, I thought that nuts and bolts
was PROBABLY not true.. but i didn't know for certain.

Now my certainty, due to the mountain of evidence presented
on ATS and by JV and others, I can say my certainty is up to
something like 5 decimal places.

But that said..

I love to learn. I am really grateful for original research.. I'm
really grateful to a small handful of people on ATS who have
given deeply to all of us.

I love to collaborate.

I love to be proven wrong.. especially if there's something that
makes more sense to replace it.

It's not that I'm stubborn or unreasonable.. so much.. oh I'm sure
i'm some of that..

it's just that I'm more right than I'm wrong...

and as the more recent players are coming to most of my conclusions,
I don't have to be apologetic about that...

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Caver78

that it it much more often goes like this:

"I want to believe that UFO Jesus will come and rescue me,
because my life sucks and I want to believe that.".

I have no interest in being huggy when the world is burning..

after we put out the fires, if ever, if we can mange to man
up and stop drinking in all the disinfo,

then I'd be happy to be huggy.. it's my essential nature.

Kev

Kev you've followed more trails than most and despite some peoples chosen avenue of exploration you're well aware they will come to the same dead ends as you did. It's ok to be gracious while they are discovering that. Maybe point them to information to make their travels speedier so they can move onto more productive things?

Seriously we all at the beginnings of our explorations into this said and did some truly mortifyingly embarrassing things back "in the day".

That said I've long grinded myself that rant-ax of it's past time to walk away from the scads of disinfo fed us by old white guys with an agenda.
Then everyone here goes right back at it!

IT's not THAT hard to leave the shyte behind and move off into more unexplored territories. Especially since the last 60 plus years have gotten us nowhere. What's that bit of wisdom?

Oh yeah....
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Keep citing Alexander, Hynek, ad infinitium to bolster your argument and expect a different result? Despite the fact we know just about anyone cited was compromised.
Facepalm!!!!

The field of UFOlogy calls for a new paradigm of original thinkers and a re evaluation of some of the better UFO cases now that we know the original analysis were forced to meet that old agenda.

Maybe we glean some new info this way?
Maybe not, but it's a starting point.
Just one example, I'm sure some of the genius here will think of smarter ways to get started.

Never the less on the other end of the spectrum the Love & Light believers in ET's are here to save us or we're seeing nephalim crowd are just as bad as the disinfo groups. However they are entitled to their opinions, despite their angles on this being just as equally unprovable as the current choices.

I would say in debating the subject that swatting people down when we know their trails already lead no where is counter productive because they will in due time figure it out themselves. Our time is better spent in collaborating and moving things further along. Teasing out new ideas and seeing what sticks to the wall.

a reply to: Caver78

What a really nice post my friend!

You are dead correct.

Collaboration is much more important than being abrasive
about what's obvious. You are correct, eventually most
people will either die of old age or perhaps if young
will see just how incorrect their assumptions were.

I mean look at me.

My first belief when I was 16, was that "Kundalini" was
where it's at.. and it took me 30 years of studying it,
to learn what it really was.. and what it actually was not.

But without all those mistakes that I made, I wouldn't
be where I am now... even that being possessed in 1981
(so embarrassing to proud old me).. turns out to have
been CRITICAL to my current theory and understanding.

All of our mistakes are priceless jewels of learning.

On one point you made earlier that i didn't address -- how
do I know i'm not being deluded by the Phenomenon?

Great question.

I had 30 years of training in that very thing when i was in
the Kundalini cult, as "Kundaini" is also known as
"the Mother of Deception" .. the serpent who releases
toxins in the body.. but if you survive the death trial..
supposedly you become "enlightened".

And yes, I understand that whole ancient psyop.. (you see
that I also call my 30 years of mistakes psyops too).

I learned critical things from those 30 years.. of "mistakes".

Including how to minimize the chance of being deluded by
the Phenomenon. I had 30 years under my belt to prepare
for that BTUFO encounter.. most people have zero years
to prepare.

But to end this response.. and go camping..

Since I'm not a likeable person.. and nearly everyone in
the UFOlogy/paranormal is deluded/disinfoed to quite
a degree..

I have had to admit that I'm too abrasive to work with
hardly anyone..

so I won't.

Well I might do the movie after the book.. but tha'ts just
a maybe.

But If I release everything I know... everything I highly
suspect.. everything that I have experienced..

and give it away for free under another name..

then I will have done my duty, at least as I feel it is.

Take care.. I'm not sure how many more conversations
that you and I will have.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It just goes to show you that no matter what you think you know, you simply don't know what you don't know.

That's been my personal mantra for decades.

Best,
Mark

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It just goes to show you that no matter what you think you know, you simply don't know what you don't know.

That's been my personal mantra for decades.

Best,
Mark

Lol, wut?

You co-opted Donald Rumsfield’s mantra. I expected better. Carry on...

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Regardless of what you believe about ufo's, let me tell you Christianity is not any disinfo, by any stretch of imagination.
Praise the Lord

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I have changed my view a good bit over the years, mostly as a result of the great work by MirageMan. I really owe a lot to him.. without his mountain of evidence that nuts and bolts UFOs are disinfo, I wouldn't have had evidence for what I knew to be true.

I would qualify that point by saying this:

Most UFO sightings are nothing more than misinterpretations of known phenomena. But I don't rule out the fact that a real spacecraft from another civilization may have visited here once or twice in the planet's history.

It is also apparent that the certain people linked to the MIC in the United States have long watched over the UFO community. Once probably fearing Soviet spies were involved. But since the late 1970s another group funded by huge government grants having wasted most of the money (officially) studying remote viewing and other 'out there' topics. Most have dabbled with $cientology or weird occult like activities and seem deeply interested in ufology and how people can be manipulated.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hey Kev

As someone who likes you, enjoys your posts and is concerned about you, it worries me when you post things about having your personal life threatened, or you not having long left, or just a few posts or not many conversations left.

Please understand from the outside looking in it’s hard to know what’s going on and if you are at risk etc. For those that don’t know you by your writings it must be extra worrying as they have no context or background.

I can’t provide a suggestion on how to deal with this as if something is happening it’s happening. I just wanted to voice my concern.

a reply to: ctj83

Ok ok ok

I got some internet access I did not expect.

Stop worrying about me, ok?

I had some, let's call it "Skinwalker Ranch type stuff follow me home"
and scare me and get close to affecting my family.

Any rational person would be a bit "nervous" if that happened to them.

Several "famous people" known on this forum, one involved with SWR
and another with TTSA are both actually "infected" and I got careless and
let it affect my life.

I'm ok. My family is ok.

Thanks for caring.. honestly.. thanks for caring.

But all that said..

I'm not accomplishing anything (much) on ATS.. and the other
folks in the above mentioned organizations.. are doing their
own things.. somewhat recklessly IMHO, like I just emailed
a minute ago..

poke around in shaman stuff, but don't consult a reputable
shaman.. you will "get bit".

If I'm sick, I see a doctor. if I have electrical problems..
in my house...I hire an electrician.

But these days everyone just assumes that regardless of
their training or experience, that they are experts in
"my world" and they are not.

but you just can't tell anyone anything these days.

I'm going to keep reading some posts on ATS, but otherwise
give me an IM if you have something to say or if you have
my email.. or phone... contact me..

but I'm not going to "get into it" on ATS anymore.. people
need the freedom to make their own mistakes.. just like
I did so many times..

Best to you and yours,

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Glad to hear that Kev! Makes perfect sense when you explain it like that.

I don’t want to be taking your time up by posting replies here. I’ll hit you up by PM in future!

a reply to: mirageman

Seems hilarious, but the other day came across a video where hal puthoff of remote viewing lore mentioned that, the us navy had taken him aboard an aircraft carrier to show him how much zero poing energy he must produce to run an aircraft carrier. Lol is the us navy or the gubmint that gullible?

a reply to: mirageman

the connections with the occult, religion and other such belief systems and seemingly how the government is embedded itself within Ufology, may not be because Ufology is connected with all of the previous.

Ufology itself is kind of a cult really, people have an unshakable belief in something that they believe 100% exists that cannot yet be proven conclusively, nor is any 100% indisputable evidence put forward. Certain events are given credit for kick starting the whole thing with Roswell being the easy Genesis of it all recently. We have also had many false self proclaimed kings of the secret who have come through the wringer over and over again that didn't conclusively change nor bring about the disclosure they pronounced.

My point?
The government I believe would look at Ufology as a cult and if the wished to infiltrate it because it offered a "defense significance / threat" they would need to know what they were getting into.

Note;
I am not discounting people within the occult have an interest in the phenomenon btw. (looking at you kev)

a reply to: mirageman

Corbell did the SkinWalker documentary. Suddenly we realise the AATIP budget went to the testing Keheller described - but at SkinWalker ranch. The tests have been completed. Not published yet.

Corbell did the Patient 17 doc with Lear. Recently, Vallee has been talking about reassessing implants.

I'll take a big guess. Corbell is skating to where the puck is heading not where it is now.

The next logical step is connecting Bob Lazar to all of this. Hence the new Corbell Lazar documentary.

a reply to: ctj83

I'ts been a crazy few weeks for me.

I know someone within SWR that I trust, who told me about the
funding source for the testing as well, so I concur.

I also discovered that one of the biggest scientific names within
TTSA not only has experiencer syndrome, but fancies themselves
a practitioner of the "cult" that I was a part of for 30 years.

So I can state with crystal clarity that my statements about at
least some of "these guys" being stooges for the Phenomenon
is proven true. (I suspect that all of them are.. but have no proof).

Of course neither of my new contacts, either within SWR or
TTSA will listen to a word I say about anything..

But the valuable lesson that I had forgotten, that everyone wants
the thrill of being a "prophet" or a "godling" or "on the trail
of the Phenomenoin" --- it's part of the Experiencer Sickness
that they all have to work through... I cannot and should not
try to deter them from their foolish and uneducated journey.
Of course some or all of them might "wise up" after another
30 years.. I mean.. I did. If they have 30 years left to live anyway.

The only sad thing is that it will waste all of YOUR GUYS time..
as they will chase their tail for decades again.. and many of
you will die of old age before they come up with anything
of note.

Ah well.

For the most part, TTSA and SWR are the same group..
there is one little splinter that is not quite.. but close
enough, and they are being led on the same merry
chase that i was for 30 years, before i learned what
was going on.

I just felt a sense of responsibility to the ATS community
to post this.. but I don't plan to stay in touch with my
"new contacts", as it seems there is nothing that I can
do to help them.

I shouldn't have any more updates on this subject..
I'm going to work hard to lurk and work on my
personal project. The closure feels good though.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

wow. Thanks for taking the time on this post Kev. A LOT to take in.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: mirageman


Ufology itself is kind of a cult really ...

If I may put my two cents in, almost everything regarded with religious veneration can be defined as ‘cult'. However, one can hardly speak of cult if that's not taken to imply such an emotional attachment.

a reply to: ctj83

I'll take a big guess. Corbell is skating to where the puck is heading not where it is now. 

The next logical step is connecting Bob Lazar to all of this. Hence the new Corbell Lazar documentary.

I don't understand. Would you care to elaborate on your insight?

Cheers,
BT