Star Trek is dead, fire at will!

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Nyiah
This show isnt made for us and I dont see why I have to pretend its great when its not. Or that I am being hard on the people trying to make money off something they dont even bother to understand.

I really don't care who it's "made for", it treads Trek water just fine to me and millions of others. Is your issue that it's not identical to TOS' cheesy aesthetics and/or that they retconned a foster sister in? That's what a lot of hardcore fans are having issues with when they decide to be honest (such as via the ST reddit) The aesthetics are actually believable to the more open-minded fans, and the foster sister retconning is fine because we already retconned Sybok in.

Discovery is the dirty underbelly grit we were introduced to in TNG & DS9. This is Chain of Command, this is In The Pale Moonlight, for a whole series angle, not one or two episodes. If this kind of grit was OK for Sisko to partake in and Picard to suffer through, then why not this ship?

Orville is the new Trek in every way. Its funnier too.

I wouldn't know, I haven't bothered watching Orville yet. It was a back-up option for me in case Discovery tanked out the gate. Currently, Discovery is scratching the Trek itch more than sufficiently for me, I'm loving the hell out of it. That says a lot to not be interested in Seth's show, because I'm a big fan of his stuff.

a reply to: Nyiah

The Orville is totally worth watching.

a reply to: Nyiah

Why do you assume I am some TOS purist. Im not even that old.

This show SHOULD be made for us. I have no clue who it is made for then. Housewives in their 60s?

Things like that matter. Its the difference between being contrived and boring or not.

The grit the writers are refering to after watching that "making of DS9" from the 90s isnt what they think it is.

DS9 didnt break Trek rules like Discovery having the first officer staging a mutiny and assaulting a superior officer so as to avoid a war, by killing klingons and actually starting a war....

Its not even in the same leage.

Orville had an episode where a baby was forced to get a sex change due to cultural practices the crew found too alien. It had an unexpected ending Trek was fond of.

Orville made a kick ass episode that got people thinking about gender and cultural respect in a sci fi setting. Bravo and Bingo.

Thats the sort of smart Trek we are talking about.

This is all lazerzzz and action. Exactly what fans said they hated. Who cares though right, we dont matter when it comes to selling things to us.

Just wow.

This is what the new Star Trek should have been. I hate the fact that they are trying to "reboot" something that already had so much lore and such a huge fanbase behind it.



Sadly, I knew that the new show was going to be garbage when the producers started injecting their own politics into it.

Inside 'Star Trek Discovery': The Franchise's Answer to the Trump Era

a reply to: Konduit

That won many awards and had millions of real fans excited and INVOLVED.

The law suit against Axanar studios ended ALL fan made content. Thats leaves a bad taste. Screw this show and CBS for that fact alone.

Axanar was going to be awesome. Now we get two 15 minute clips of a butchered story to send us off.

The Klingons used to be the Russians but there was an active effort to bridge the divide in the real world. Just Trek being Trek.

I wonder if the "white nationalist" klingons will do more than die and look like angry drag queens.

I dont really wonder. I know this show will end before getting a chance to ruin Trek for more than 2-3 seasons.

Then it all dies when the money stops flying in.

I personally really enjoy this new series of Star Trek. The things that do annoy me I can look past for the most part. There have been things I liked and disliked in every other Star Trek series I have watched. Which is all of them, excluding Enterprise. I could not get into that one. So I get why some might not be into Discovery. Discovery most definitely has a different vibe from the others. But it feels enough like Trek to me. The story is a darker one, filled with secrets and conspiracy.

Section 31 was the name of an officially-nonexistent and autonomous clandestine organization which claimed to protect the security interests of United Earth and, later, the United Federation of Planets. Loosely speaking, it was Starfleet's black-ops division, operating separately from and usually without the knowledge of Starfleet Intelligence (though it often recruited members of Starfleet Intelligence). Section 31 was also somewhat comparable to the Romulan Tal Shiar or Cardassian Obsidian Order – unlike these other organizations, however, Section 31's very existence was a deeply buried secret, known only to a handful of people beyond its own membership. (DS9: "Inquisition")

Perhaps Section 31's darkest aspect was that, while it had existed since the beginning of Starfleet, it was practically autonomous, having operated for over two centuries with no oversight or accountability whatsoever, even free to kill those it deemed a threat to Federation interests at its own discretion. (DS9: "When It Rains...") Some high-ranking Starfleet admirals and intelligence personnel at times seemed to be vaguely aware that Section 31 existed, though giving them only very broad objectives. (DS9: "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges") At other times, Section 31 appeared to be an outright puppet master to Starfleet, directing the actions and even overall political policies of the Federation itself. (DS9: "Extreme Measures")

memory-alpha.wikia.com...

Is Star Trek Discovery the Story of Section 31?

The theory in the video is an interesting one if you ask me.



That stuff aside though, I am genuinely interested in Burnham's story arc. And while the Klingons may look a bit extreme they remain intimidating as hell. I enjoy them quite a bit. Ripper's short but touching arc... lol! The Spore Drive is fascinating.

Some things I can complain about though.. Tilly is annoying. I don't mind the cursing but find it unnecessary for Trek. The weapons they used when escaping the Klingon ship were bs. One shot vaporizes something? Episode 7 party scenes were the worst! I'm not sure how I feel about the doctor yet. This guy has huge shoes to fill after McCoy, Bashir, and The Doctor. And Crusher too.

There is stuff I hated about most other Treks too. I can't stand Troy from TNG. I don't see her point in being there whatsoever. Kira from DS9.. I disliked her for a long time but after watching enough DS9 I've just grown to appreciate her character. Rambling here..



ETA: The JJabrams flares are the second worst.

Other than those though, I think things look great.

I can only hope for a Ferengi.

In conclusion, I cite these Rules of Acquisition:
112, 239, and last but not least, 31.

a reply to: Painterzthe reason its getting better rating is because thos 2 shows were on upn which had way less coverage than major networks. stdisco has a much broder audience because its on netflix internationally and on cbs access stateside. stories are different but redesin of klingons and ships i just got to say ughh.
t

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Here are the things I liked:

Aready mentioned Klingon ancient stone carved tech.

The shenzhou was a cool looking ship.

The discovery had an awesome bridge.

I liked the concept of klingon houses being rallied to war with the beacon.

I liked Philippa as a captain. Sucks they killed her just when I wanted Micheal to die.

I like the new EVA suits and that they use them. I hate that everyone is iron man now when in space. Lose the infinite jet packs and I am back onboard.

I liked the spore drive and the fact that its a secret research ship. Section 31 fits and is great. Thats a good idea.

The dislikes:

I have gone retarded trying to figure out why they chose this design for the ship itself. The doughnut saucer section thing, its not good. It only worked in the movie because the ship was jet black and in space. That terrible engineering section...ugh. Triangles and circles are lame on a ship like that. Bad lines.

It looks like a small child drew it in crayon first.

But I really am glad that some enjoy it. I am turning off my comm badge to trek in large part to the law suit against the free fan made content.

I did see all the episodes to date of STD and didnt just shut it off in disgust. I TRIED to enjoy it.

I was only able to when I watched it like it was a stand alone sci fi show. The Trek made it dumb IMO.

They had a chance to make something new with all that beautiful production.

Even a show with a nod to Trek would have gotten Trek fans all the same.

People waited 17+ years almost begging for this show. Fans went nuts and just started making good stuff.

Just when it was getting really good the "owners" say Ok, we get it you want a show. We will give you a show.

It will be the best ever. We hear ya loud and clear.

Then, aaaaand its gone.

LoL.

I hope to god that Pirate feature length Trek shows and movies are still made. Screw CBS.

I also hope micheal sacrifices herself to end the war she started. What a clutz.

Killed 2 klingons in the span of a couple hours after hundreds of years of no contact. Keeps shooting after having a living ghost tell her to try shooting at them with the disclaimer that he is almost certain it wont work for her.

Attacks her captain and tries to kill the first klingon ship in the war. First blood wasnt enough. The mutiny fails, she is given a chance to redeem herself by capturing the Klingon leader, is told to NOT make him a martyr. Kills him in anger and fails her mission after letting her captain die on her watch.

Nice.

Then she resigns herslf to wallow in self pitty and has to be almost begged to fix her ruined life while helping the Federation win a war she freaking started.

It doesnt even...just, you know what I am getting at. Where is the officers code that makes the grit a dark halo?

What stands out? The star fleet captain with principles that will die for her cause, and does so only to have her body eaten. Um, OK. Philippa was the best character. Dead now. Also, EATEN... really?

Or does the mutineer stand out? The one who gets people killed, shoots first, and gets to skip across the stars being praised for her awesomeness that is shadowed by her zero Fs for everything attitude...which seems to work for her.

Thats my gripe in a nut shell. I really do like some of it. What I like isnt the Trek in it though. Thats what I am taking away from it.

Anyhoot. Thanks for playing everyone. Have a good one.

I'm enjoying the new show and have watched all trek since TNG and watched TOS in the 70s and 80s on my local UHF station.

I'm getting tired of all these people attacking the show for continuity changing and questioning the technology vs TOS.

It's the modern era, Trek needed to be modernized. It is now, it's different but still Trek.

Also I'm favoring the fan theory that we are seeing the evolution of Section 13 due to all the hints placed throughout which would explain a lot.

originally posted by: SpartanStoic
I'm enjoying the new show and have watched all trek since TNG and watched TOS in the 70s and 80s on my local UHF station.

I'm getting tired of all these people attacking the show for continuity changing and questioning the technology vs TOS.

It's the modern era, Trek needed to be modernized. It is now, it's different but still Trek.

Also I'm favoring the fan theory that we are seeing the evolution of Section 13 due to all the hints placed throughout which would explain a lot.

You are never going to please all of the people with something like this.

I think the biggest issue is that we have come forwards in time and technology and tv has evolved but we are going back in time as far as the timeline is concerned and that always causes issues. It happened with the starwars movies in the same way.

Also you have odd stuff like in enterprise where the technology they are using in the future seems less advanced than stuff we currently have today, using wall mounted communicators for example when even rural tribes in Africa have smart phones.

I have not heard the section 13 theory but it certainly makes a bit more sense of where the show is heading.

It is less "trek" than we are used to but the charecters seem more human, more faults and less utopean idology and that kind of makes sense.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: nonspecific

No it makes perfect sense to ignore fans and then try to sell them things they dont like.

0.o

Then argue with them for not having the "Correct" opinion.

Exactly, the entire show appears to be leftist in nature, with almost all of its opinions designed by mainstream media of today and purposefully skewed to make fans of ANY of the old shows upset.

And it has, i personally see a 90% dislike for the show in the fans...we gave it a chance..tried hard but this show is over the top bad in a good many ways.

This show is insulting in just about every way...

I'm enjoying it to be honest. Its well made and looks great. To me this has the darker more conflict driven tone that Enterprise should have had but didn't as the showrunners were totally stale.

The technology looking more advanced isn't an issue. You cant freeze a property in time unless it's already a history show. It has to look appropriate at the point it's made. If futuristic it has to be a credible extrapolation forward from that point. Bond fans don't demand Bond wears brylcream like Connery or uses antique 60s gadgets. That's because it would be stupid.

The Klingon makeover I wasn't keen on, but I see why they did it. Over the years they became figures of fun, parodies of themselves. This is making them dangerous again.

The ship itself is an ugly design but I mind it less the more I see it. The annoyance is wearing off.

Glad it's been renewed. It has the potential to be great.

a reply to: tadaman

Good rant there, on the things you disliked. I can't completely disagree.

I forgot the Klingons ate the dead humans.. I mean wtf was that?

You know something I was terrified of when I first saw Tilly..

PLEASE PLEASE Don't be the great great great+ Grandma of Janeway.

So.... as far as the fan made stuff, I don't think I've ever seen any of it.

Except for that one project that was like TOS and had Grant from Myth Busters in it.

Any suggestions on what to watch or where to begin?

Thanks!

originally posted by: nonspecific
It is less "trek" than we are used to but the charecters seem more human, more faults and less utopean idology and that kind of makes sense.

I think that's a good way of putting it. Recently some friends came to stay with me for a couple weeks and they got really into the show with me. They had seen some Star Trek here and there in the past but that was about it. My buddy Zack had seen the most and he commented that he thought STD felt more "real". He may have also used the word human, but I forget.

As for Section 31, there is a link to a short vid on it, in my first post.

If you are interested or missed it, ofc!

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: tadaman

Good rant there, on the things you disliked. I can't completely disagree.

I forgot the Klingons ate the dead humans.. I mean wtf was that?

You know something I was terrified of when I first saw Tilly..

PLEASE PLEASE Don't be the great great great+ Grandma of Janeway.

So.... as far as the fan made stuff, I don't think I've ever seen any of it.

Except for that one project that was like TOS and had Grant from Myth Busters in it.

Any suggestions on what to watch or where to begin?

Thanks!

I actually like the klingons eating the dead foes, it seems more klingony and also shows that like us they become more refined and cultural over the years leading up to the days of tng and the others.

I have a nasty feeling that tilly could indeed be that distant relative of janeway now you mention it.

a reply to: nonspecific

Idk if I like or dislike the eating of humans but it certainly drives home their barbaric less refined selves. It's funny to imagine Klingons in later series sitting in the mess hall. Drinking their bloodwine. Eyeing other patrons and discussing how tasty they look. I bet they all flock to Qwark's for their fill of human meat. Greed is eternal, and dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.

Tilly, insecure redhead on a journey to be a Captain...

So far I like Janeway a hell of a lot more.

Is Star Trek dead? Well 7 pages in 24 hours. I don't think so.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: nonspecific

Idk if I like or dislike the eating of humans but it certainly drives home their barbaric less refined selves. It's funny to imagine Klingons in later series sitting in the mess hall. Drinking their bloodwine. Eyeing other patrons and discussing how tasty they look. I bet they all flock to Qwark's for their fill of human meat. Greed is eternal, and dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.

Tilly, insecure redhead on a journey to be a Captain...

So far I like Janeway a hell of a lot more.

I assumed they were eating the dead more as an affront and to disrespect their vanquished enemy rather than for the taste or sustinance but who knows?

I will have a fit worthy of the OP if she turns out to be Janeways distant relative.

originally posted by: intrepid
Is Star Trek dead? Well 7 pages in 24 hours. I don't think so.

I think the overall concensus is that it is not dead but is not well but could pull through and be fine.

Only seems to be a few diehards lighting the funeral pyre a little prematurely by all accounts.

originally posted by: nonspecific
I assumed they were eating the dead more as an affront and to disrespect their vanquished enemy rather than for the taste or sustinance but who knows?

That's probably more accurate. But they say that eating the flesh of another gives you something of a taste for it in the future. Perhaps it started as an affront but became an acquired taste. If you've ever seen movies like Ravenous you may know that eating the flesh of another gives you something of their strength and being. What if the Klingons mellowed out and allied with the Federation because of years of eating humans made them more docile towards us? Made them more like us, and less like these gritty barbaric Klingons we see on STD? Our flesh watered down their flesh, so to speak. lol

Just a random thought (that I don't actually believe to be the case).