What is he thinking?!?!?!?!

I have a serious question that I hope someone here might be able to answer. Why is Bush attempting to get worker permits for our neighbors down south when there are Americans that dont have a job? What is he thinking? This has to be some kind of genuiss ploy that Bush has come up with to fight terrorism, because I cant see how it is going to help America, or our citizens. Do we even have 5 million jobs avalible for American citizens? I dont think so. Apparently, this is the amount of immagrints that Bush wants to allow in a year to work.

I think Bush has finally lost his mind. He is giving away American jobs to overseas countries, and now he is also giving away American jobs to who ever comes across the boarder. Is there no end to his madness?

[edit on 1/18/05 by Kidfinger]

I haven't looked into this a whole lot, so right now I'm pretty much neutral on this. I think I know his logic though, and it goes like this:

Millions of immigrants are ALREADY sneaking in illegally, thus corrupt companies are able to pay the immigrants less money for the work they do. This action is illegal, but so are the immigrants. The temporary, TEMPORARY work visa's would allow the immigrants to get jobs fairly, thus competing and not "Stealing" other Americans jobs. While they're working, they can also apply for perminant citizen-ship. Kinda gets rid of the whole "They took my job!" argument, huh?

Originally posted by Herman
Kinda gets rid of the whole "They took my job!" argument, huh?

I guess it depends on how you look at it. Some people might see it as--They are not supposed to be here in the first place, so why make it legal for them to come work here. Instead of putting all the money for this program into the work permit program, they could use it to strengthen our boarders and tighten up our laughable boarder patrole.


Now dont get me wrong. Im not a hater, and I have nothing agianst an immigrant coming over here LEGALLY to find work, but I think 5 million is about 4,5000,000 to many work permits to give out.

Actually kidfinger my interpertation is that this iniative is more about tax revenues tahn anything else.
My logic is as follows.
Millions of illegal immigrants are already n the US working llegally at very low wages which Ameican citizens can not compete with. In addition as they are illegal immigrants they do not pay any taxes on the money earned and anything they don't use for the most basic living expenses is sent back to mexico thus draining our economy.
In addition due to the size of our border stopping the flow of illegal immigrant is next to impossible without a multi trillion dollar initiative.

Now as I understand it what the temporary worker visa will accomplish is as follows.
1) make it easier to crack down on companes hiring illegal workers
2) force those with temp visa to pay taxes thus creating a source of revenue for the gov while at the same time helping to plug the drain in our economy.
3) reduce the need for those comming to america for legitimate reasons to sneak across the border thus reducing the workload of the border cops thereby makng it easier for them to catch those who do try to enter illegally.
4) removes sympathy for the illegal immigrants who do sneak across thereby making it easier to seek and recieve heavier penalties for those who do
5) reduce the wage gap between citizens and illegals thereby motivating companies to hire more americans (afterall if you have to pay both the same and give both the same benefits then most companies would choose to hire americans)
6) with less illegal traffic across the borders it makes it easier to secure the borders therby reducing the chances of a terrorist to slip through

At least thats my interpertation.

Originally posted by mwm1331

Now as I understand it what the temporary worker visa will accomplish is as follows.
1) make it easier to crack down on companes hiring illegal workers
2) force those with temp visa to pay taxes thus creating a source of revenue for the gov while at the same time helping to plug the drain in our economy.
3) reduce the need for those comming to america for legitimate reasons to sneak across the border thus reducing the workload of the border cops thereby makng it easier for them to catch those who do try to enter illegally.
4) removes sympathy for the illegal immigrants who do sneak across thereby making it easier to seek and recieve heavier penalties for those who do
5) reduce the wage gap between citizens and illegals thereby motivating companies to hire more americans (afterall if you have to pay both the same and give both the same benefits then most companies would choose to hire americans)
6) with less illegal traffic across the borders it makes it easier to secure the borders therby reducing the chances of a terrorist to slip through

At least thats my interpertation.

Isnt this what a green card is for? It seems if one system is not working, then why are they basing another system off one that doesnt work?

Seems to me to be just another way to dillute America's strength from within. Kruchev once said, "We will take you without a shot fired." Tho its not the old Soviet Union following thru w/that promise, someone is. I guess that someone is the mysterious NWO folks refer to, fronted by the Bush regime.

How do we put a stop to this? I say..

bring the bulk of our troops home from Western Europe and South Korea

Station them along our borders, both North and South

Make their mission (as they train for overseas duty) to seal and patrol the borders.

ENFORCE existing INS laws. I.E., if an ILLEGAL immigrant pops up on the radar (like getting pulled over for a traffic violation), DEPORT them. Don't give 'em a bleepin' drivers license!!!

These simple actions would go a long way towards curbing the out-of-control growth of illegal immigration.

I wish the media would give more attention to this very serious national security issue.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Seems to me to be just another way to dillute America's strength from within.

I agree.....I'm not a prejudiced person at all! I'm not white (1/2 Italian, 1/2 Naive American) my granddaughter is half Mexican, my paternal grandmother lived in Miami in Hialeah and never learned much English...but this is going to hurt us. Before you know it, the official language of America will be what is now considered to be a foreign language.....I'm all for other having freedom and living here, but I know of no other country where you can move there and not expect to have to learn the language. I too thought that work permits came in obtaining a green card....just letting illegals come over here and work is going to attract more illegal immigrants.

LadyV makes a good point. To point this out does not mean I'm racist. (I'm sure there are some who might think I am.) My favorite uncle is Japanese Hawaiian, I've got a cousin-in-law who's Phillipino and three half Mexican-American cousins. They did the immigration thing the right way. Why can't the rest of them? Think of all the good folks waiting lawfully that get screwed over by those who enter illegally. It ain't right.

As far as learning to speak English.. I totally agree, again, with Lady V. Try living in France, for example, and not learning French. That won't get you anywhere! The same applies for everywhere else. Here in the U.S., if you speak your native tongue at home and around your friends, that's fine. But when you go to work, or somewhere like the highway dept. or hospital.. speak ENGLISH!

Originally posted by LadyV
Before you know it, the official language of America will be what is now considered to be a foreign language.....

This is SUCH a peev! I am tired of going to the quicky mart and asking for Camel Ultra Lights, only to be handed a pack of Winstons. Forget about ordering a cheese burger at McDonalds. It reminds me alot of that South Park episode where the people from the future come back in time to find jobs. They hit it right on the head with that episode.

[edit on 2/1/05 by Kidfinger]

They only take jobs that no one wants, excpet for the jobs that they do. like dishwasher, that is so easy, wash some dishes manually, then the rest in the dish washer. Picking fruit? Easy to, sometimes a little warm, but munch on a apple, it all good. Why people think only mexicans want those jobs IDK.

Holy S*** I think this here is a topic I can agree with EastcoastKid and Kidfinger...man do I need a drink! LOL
My family came here in the 50's and 60's from Germany. They had to learn english BEFORE they got here!
I have worked in restraints throughout high school and college and I must say that I have great respect for South and Central Americans. What I do not have respect for are their governments. Mexico does nothing to stop illegal immigration

In the state of the union address, Bush talked about a guest worker program for Mexicans to take jobs that Americans dont want to do. Therefore as much as you'd like to blame your government, this is probably your own collective fault.

Originally posted by cargo
In the state of the union address, Bush talked about a guest worker program for Mexicans to take jobs that Americans dont want to do. Therefore as much as you'd like to blame your government, this is probably your own collective fault.

This was addressed in a previous post. These jobs re jobs that Americans need. It doesnt matter if we want to do them or not. unemployment is rampant amoung the legal citizens. Why are we putting other nations citizens to work when we have LEGAL citizens here who cant find work and would willingly work those jobs. Even if they didnt like them.

Kidfinger go to germany and talk about rampant unemployment OK the fact is the US has some of the lowest unemployment figures n the world.

Seems to me the field of employment would be an excellent place to start netting illegals. Place STIFF monetary fines on people/businesses who are caught employing illegals. The shyte would cease.

The bottom line is that someone in our government, or a lot of someones have an agenda do destroy this nation from within. Next to none of our representatives are doing a damm thing about illegal immigration. They just look away. I guess many of them are guilty of that, too, b/c they know they'd have to pay native Americans far more money to clean up after them.

Here's some articles I've seen recently:

Eight Steps To Destroy America
1-30-5

We all know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context, his thoughts are particularly poignant.

Last week there was an immigration-overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, Mexifornia, explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal - was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time.

Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"
www.rense.com...

The Coming Break Up
Of America - Part 1
By Frosty Wooldridge
NewsWithViews.com
1-31-5

America faces the most critical juncture in its 229 year history. Indolent Americans sit on their Lazy Boy recliners wielding a remote while their country fractures before their eyes. It's been slow for the past 30 years, but it's quickening in every sector of our country. Have you noticed more and more people speaking different languages at the supermarket? Schools? Movies? At your local bank? Have you noticed radio stations and TV crackling with Spanish or other languages in our English speaking America? Have you seen more people disrespecting the singing of our national anthem? Have you noticed our laws being broken such as red lights being run or people fleeing accident scenes where they were the cause? Have you noticed more trash in your state and national parks, especially in California, Arizona, Texas and Georgia? Have you noticed more flags being flown from other countries instead of Old Glory? Did you know that more Mexican flags fly from houses, cars and establishments in California more than the Stars and Stripes? Have you noticed what has happened to the Golden State? Texas? Arizona? How about Georgia or Miami, Florida? Have you ever been incredulous about hearing something that sounded so preposterous that it "couldn't be true?"

Take a second look. You are watching the "Coming Breakup of America." That's right. Your country. It is moving methodically, perversely, steadily and provocatively across our land. Our Congress and president aid it at the highest levels. It is a nation-destroying experiment being forced on Americans that will prove more disastrous than 9/11.
www.rense.com...

America's Destruction By Design
Why Bush And Congress Dismantle America By Arrangement
By Frosty Wooldridge
NewsWithViews.com
1-29-5

With 80 percent of the American public screaming for our president and Congress to secure our borders and stop illegal migration, why do you think President Bush and this Congress aren't listening?

Short answer: They promote a different agenda against the wishes of American citizens. Since we voted the SAME Congress and president back into office, they carry out their mission: destruction of our Constitution by arrangement.
www.rense.com...

A Progressive Indictment: Immigration Policy and Corporate Welfare
[Recently by Randall Burns: The Jobs Crunch: A Progressive Indictment Of Immigration—And Both Parties]

[Vdare.com note: Randall Burns is a self-described “progressive,” which proves once again that Vdare.com values diversity—or, more importantly, it proves that immigration affects everyone. The case against it is as good from the political left, as from the right.]

By Randall Burns

There is a fundamental contradiction between advocating open borders and claiming to favor containment of corporate power and the defense of New Deal reforms. It is high time American progressives examined this issue seriously.

Conservatives often point out the fundamental contradiction between the existence of a Social Welfare State and mass immigration.

But the reality is much more serious: United States immigration policy is a key part of a Corporate Welfare State. Immigration policy helps protect established interests from democratic control—and from market competition.
www.vdare.com...

Each of us follows in the footsteps of Thomas Jefferson, Lincoln, Madison, Franklin, Washington, Susan B. Anthony, Ike, Dr. Martin Luther King, Eleanor Roosevelt or any American who cared about the future of our country. The hour is late, however, the hour is not up. The time to take action is now. I urge you to declare yourself an American citizen who inherited the same responsibilities that Jefferson or any foot soldier from Valley Forge all the way to the jungles of Vietnam and Iraq. Most people don't realize it, however, it's growing into a huge crisis for our country. We've got over 15 million illegal aliens in this country with around another 3 million pouring over our borders each year in addition to the 1.3 million who come in legally. We're headed for an added 250 million Americans in 50 years which will leave us struggling with an unsustainable society. Our kids are going to inherit a mess.

At the same time, we must be compassionate, yet, we must ensure our nation's viability so we can help the Third World out of its population crisis.
www.rense.com...

The temp worker visa &amnesty would go to those who've been paying payroll taxes.....so no net new tax revenues will be garnered.

Originally posted by Bout Time
The temp worker visa &amnesty would go to those who've been paying payroll taxes

How the hell do ILLEGAL immigrants pay payroll taxes and get away w/it? Or send their children to public school? Or get drivers licenses? It's insane.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Kidfinger go to germany and talk about rampant unemployment OK the fact is the US has some of the lowest unemployment figures n the world.

And that makes it ok to give away jobs that could be had by unemploied Americans? I thought conservatives were patriotic and cared about thier fellow American. Now I see that you just care about the people who can make you money the cheapest. Legal or not.

Kidfinger,

I think you're resting on a bad assumption:
Jobless Americans will take any job offered to them.

A job is better than no job, right? Well, humans are not exactly rational creatures, and emotions such as pride tend to cause a block in reasonable interests. There exists stories of homeless, jobless americans that have 4 year degrees! Surely they could have been to acquire a job at the local McDonald's, but yet they fail to do so.

I, for one, would like to see a free economy. If Mexicans or Americans are willing to work for less than min. wage, then let them. Let the market decide who works where, and for how much, not the government.

If a man or woman with kids and/or parents to take care of is out of work, he/she will take whatever job they can get. That is if they're worth anything. This excuse that illegals take jobs Americans won't work is just horseshyte.