There Are Some Sad People In Brussels.

a reply to: uncommitted

I do get what you are saying, but here is the thing.

Most of those who voted to leave did so to stem the tide of people coming here. Of course some will have done so because they thought we'd wake up in the 1950s on the day after the vote, but the massive majority of people who voted did so to make society better, not worse.


I am well aware that some in the EU may want to throw Brits out, well, that's on them (And I really do think that a challenge under Vienna may work, despite articles I have seen that cast doubt on it)

The point is, we should not hold this over what are now "our own people" which is what the various immigrants now are. If Spain and France want to be tossers about it, then that is on them and the whole world can see them for what they are, we shouldn't even pretend that we will go down that dark path, it makes us look bad and causes unnecessary anxiety for our people.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

No the Uk would be in a far stronger position but first we need to get rid of the corrupt political elite whom sole us down the swanny (mainly Tory's and New Labour not the idealists whom actually thought wrongly that the EU could be saved).

I urge you to take a look at what the EU is doing to Wages in the western European nation's, how the Troika is pulling the string's and how so many people are homeless and destitute as a result of the Troika/Bilderberg's actually running the EU and not even Brussels making the decision's in many case's.

The EU need's to break and we need to put our institutions and old agreement's back in place and restore some semblance of Democracy to our nation's, if we have a European parliament again it need's to this time be staffed by our own ELECTED government's not a seperate legislature and to make deal's and be free to walk away from them not be bound by shackles when it is harmful to our nation's.

The EU is doomed Europe is not and neither is Britain, yes we have some trying time's ahead and many will suffer but in the long run it shall be for the best FOR the people of OUR nation's not the cheap labour being brought in by unethical inclusion of semi third world eastern european nations just so the Troika can have a slave workforce while they abolish state benefit's or deliberately over tax them or drain money from them to pay for bailout's of there own personal wealth.

The EU is the most corrupt and reprehensible institution, the European court of human right's on the other hand is a good one and so too for the most part was the European court of Justice - they did make some mistake's such as terrorist's being given leave to stay etc but wholy they were good and unlike the EU parliament/Troika/Bilderberg they were genuinely interested in the well being of the people not that of the bank's.

originally posted by: uncommitted
Whether you like it or not, whether you choose to believe it or not, a lot of people voted to leave because they want non UK people out of the country. I find that as sad as you do but if I walk outside my house and throw a stone in any direction the chances are it will hit a house where that was there reasoning. Don't believe me? That's your choice but on the day after the vote they all went to one of my neighbours and made it clear what they thought.

Wow, I'm glad I don't live where you do, sounds horribly bigoted.
I don't know any bigots in real life, only people who will defend our EU friends. There are more of us who will defend where I live than those who express 'send them home' sentiments.
I hope your neighbourhood improves.

originally posted by: alldaylong
Just found this quote from The Dutch P.M. which he made this morning in Brussels.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte told MEPs that the Brexit vote was "extremely unfortunate", especially for the UK. "That country now has collapsed - politically, economically, monetarily and constitutionally, and you will have years ahead of you to get out of this mess.

www.bbc.co.uk...


This chap is as Mad As A Hatter.

Does he really think that a country that faced up to Nazi Germany in 1939 is in a worse crisis now because we have decided to leave The E.U. ?

Gave me a good laugh anyway.

Not surprising considering he is a EUphile.
He, the rest of the EU and the big institutions needs the UK to suffer to prevent other countries from wanting to Leave. Also, if we didn't suffer that would show everyone (well only the people who can think for themselves), that they were all scare mongering and have no credibility.

I don't think Mark Carney is helping much. Every time he makes a new speech he talks down the UK, which will make investors lose even more confidence.

I work in a fairly low paid full time job for what I do and I haven't been affected financially.
Has anyone here been personally affected financially by Brexit yet?

Seems to me the only losers so far are the already rich!!

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: uncommitted
the threats of violence if you don't get what you want

What spin are you trying to put on my words?
I am clear, if immigration snatch squads started rounding up my EU mates then me and my Brit mates will resist.
Wouldn't you?
Would you just sit back and watch?

No take your spin with you. Lame as misinterpretation of my comments...you are clearly a slippery one.

...just bitter from losing the Leave vote, at least I have pinned my flag on the mast, I will defend my EU mates while you just whinge about 'threats of violence' cool, sit back and watch if ever things like that start to happen. I won't.

And who is putting out talk of snatch squads? That would be you, wouldn't it. I'm not bitter, just sad. It's not my life that will be ultimately affected. Theresa May hasn't talked about snatch squads, but plenty of right wing weirdos have been talking up anti foreigner rhetoric. Don't be such an arse, it doesn't become you.

I'm not whinging about 'threats of violence', you are talking them up - grow up, just grow up. I can't believe how some people are showing their true colours in such a fashion after putting such a smile on the face of Farage.

The vote happened. People chose to believe what Johnson and Gove said. I hope they get what they were promised by people not in a position to promise it. Am I bitter? I'll say again, no, I'm just sad they won't get what people they trusted promised when they knew it wasn't in their power to deliver even if the promise had any actual basis in fact.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: uncommitted
Whether you like it or not, whether you choose to believe it or not, a lot of people voted to leave because they want non UK people out of the country. I find that as sad as you do but if I walk outside my house and throw a stone in any direction the chances are it will hit a house where that was there reasoning. Don't believe me? That's your choice but on the day after the vote they all went to one of my neighbours and made it clear what they thought.

Wow, I'm glad I don't live where you do, sounds horribly bigoted.
I don't know any bigots in real life, only people who will defend our EU friends. There are more of us who will defend where I live than those who express 'send them home' sentiments.
I hope your neighbourhood improves.

I doubt it, it's full of people who are too keen to blame everyone else for their problems and so voted to leave thinking that all of a sudden they would get the jobs they had never applied for, currently held by people that where I live don't actually exist. It does sound horribly bigoted doesn't it? It's called England.

originally posted by: uncommitted
It does sound horribly bigoted doesn't it? It's called England.

It does sound horrible, but it isn't called England, it's called your experience of your part of England.

originally posted by: uncommitted
The vote happened. People chose to believe what Johnson and Gove said. I hope they get what they were promised by people not in a position to promise it. Am I bitter? I'll say again, no, I'm just sad they won't get what people they trusted promised when they knew it wasn't in their power to deliver even if the promise had any actual basis in fact.

Sorry for jumping into your debate with grainofsand but had to comment on this..

If the people voted on a 'post Brexit manifesto' then that is their own fault.
People should have used their brains more.

The EU referendum was a vote on whether we Remain a member of the EU or Leave the EU.

That is it.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

I do get what you are saying, but here is the thing.

Most of those who voted to leave did so to stem the tide of people coming here.

That's weird, grainofsand suggests how horribly bigoted that makes them. So, are you saying most who voted to leave are horribly bigoted?

Look, the decision has been made, whether you or others like it or not discussions will at some point need to take place. Seeing as I'm more Irish and Polish by descent than English (born here, one parent half Polish, the other fully Irish) I think I've as much right as anyone to an opinion on how we as a country should ensure those that came to live here have as much right as those who left here to live/work elsewhere - it's not all in our court.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: uncommitted
It does sound horribly bigoted doesn't it? It's called England.

It does sound horrible, but it isn't called England, it's called your experience of your part of England.

I think you'll find it's a huge part of it, not your utopia. See Sprockets post.

a reply to: uncommitted

Wow, you seem unhappy about me presenting my opinion and intentions about a hypothetical situation in a reasoned discussion.
Have a cup of tea maybe? I'm sharing my reasoned thoughts about how much I care for my EU mates, why does that appear to trouble you so much?
Is it because I voted leave?

originally posted by: 83Liberty

originally posted by: uncommitted
The vote happened. People chose to believe what Johnson and Gove said. I hope they get what they were promised by people not in a position to promise it. Am I bitter? I'll say again, no, I'm just sad they won't get what people they trusted promised when they knew it wasn't in their power to deliver even if the promise had any actual basis in fact.

Sorry for jumping into your debate with grainofsand but had to comment on this..

If the people voted on a 'post Brexit manifesto' then that is their own fault.
People should have used their brains more.

The EU referendum was a vote on whether we Remain a member of the EU or Leave the EU.

That is it.

Thank you for the reminder, and a very true one it is. None of the Brexit people offered up a manifesto at all.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: uncommitted

Wow, you seem unhappy about me presenting my opinion and intentions about a hypothetical situation in a reasoned discussion.
Have a cup of tea maybe? I'm sharing my reasoned thoughts about how much I care for my EU mates, why does that appear to trouble you so much?
Is it because I voted leave?

Deflection is so much easier than debate isn't it? Carry on, don't let me stop you.

originally posted by: uncommitted
That's weird, grainofsand suggests how horribly bigoted that makes them.

No I didn't. Quote me you slippery debater.

I support controls on immigration same as we have for people outside of the EU, equality for all.
There is nothing bigoted about wishing to control immigration figures depending on how it benefits the country.
That is how nations are able to plan for public services etc.

Now quote me, or look silly for making stuff up. Lame bitterness of a Remainer...move on fella or at least hold a reasoned argument while you whinge in public.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

I do get what you are saying, but here is the thing.

Most of those who voted to leave did so to stem the tide of people coming here.

That's weird, grainofsand suggests how horribly bigoted that makes them. So, are you saying most who voted to leave are horribly bigoted?

Look, the decision has been made, whether you or others like it or not discussions will at some point need to take place. Seeing as I'm more Irish and Polish by descent than English (born here, one parent half Polish, the other fully Irish) I think I've as much right as anyone to an opinion on how we as a country should ensure those that came to live here have as much right as those who left here to live/work elsewhere - it's not all in our court.

Maybe a poor bit of phrasing on my part since I was trying to answer the bit about your bnp loving neighbours.

I must say though, the rest of your post baffles me. You want to use these people as bargaining chips?

They are human beings. No way.
Not in my country.
I'm not the most progressive of blokes, I admit, that though is beyond the pale.

originally posted by: uncommitted
Thank you for the reminder, and a very true one it is. None of the Brexit people offered up a manifesto at all.

When I said 'post Brexit manifesto', I'm referring to any promises Brexit campaigners may have made.
Not an actual full manifesto, hence the inverted comma's.

a reply to: grainofsand

There reason's are actually not always racist or bigoted and nothing personal, you think about it a country is worked for and handed on to the children by each previous generation so people do have a vested interest in keeping there country for there kid's even if that sound's distasteful.

The big problem in the UK is a policy called PRO DISCRIMINATION (Championed by the former NEW LABOUR member Harriet Harman) which in essence made it a legal obligation to Discriminate AGAINST native British in favor of any non Native british or Ethnic minority and it was essentially a non democratic and RACIST policy in every single definition thereof.

The other problem is that the influx of people is actually quite deliberate, the whole open borders idea is meant to drive DOWN wages by bringing in cheap labor and forcing the native workers to be either A. Unemployed or B. work for what they can not live on with the attendant fall in living standard's and the division of society back into a fractured class system of have's and have not's which is encumbant to this ideology.

We as a nation have always been a mixed nation since we are an island of course and indeed most anti racist reform began in the UK (not at first Scotlant as actually it was England that abolished slavery first).

We have had some of the greatest foreigners too, Benjamin Disrealy whom tried to reform our state for the sake of the children and brought in the first compulsory state education, he was a Jewish immigrant from central europe whom loved Britian with it's lack of anti semitism so much that he actually became an Anglican and rose to rule the country.

There are a great many other's.

There are however many ugly racists here, some have had that stoked by the influx of strangers, story's of eastern european (mainly romanian) gang's pickpocketing our elderly and robbing them at cash machines which reached epidemic proportion's - one incident I had in security was two romanians whom robbed a every elderly couple using a distraction technique and then went on to use there cash card which they had taken after watching them at a self service checkout and learning there pin number.

Rape and murder of a 14 year old child by a Latvian murderer whom had come to live here - he either took his own life or got lynched by perhaps his own countrymen when they found out what he had done but he was found nearby hanging from a tree to where the kid's body had been dumped in a canal.
www.bbc.co.uk...

And ok we have our own scumbag's but the sentiment was why do we also have to have everyone else's.

Now people are simple really and these kind of thing's play on there mind's, they hear about them and pretty soon get a very bad impression of the immigrant's while most are in reality very decent people, hard working etc but when you have a large number of poor eastern european's arriving annually and taxing the poorest area's this also has a political ramification as they are being unfairly targeted by the right wing government whom funnel the new arrivals into already deprived area's.

This was why UKIP did so well in it's campaign and also the elderly whom are constantly hearing RIGHT WING commentary form the governing MP's about Aging population's, needing the new arrival's to plug skill's gap's (after they have cut funding to our own eductation system and created an elitist environment in which only the well of can realistically look at further/higher education as an option and also hear about elderly being put to death in our hospitals' which make's them - the most politically literate class of voter - extremely angry with the pro EU right wing government which has so deeply and utterly betrayed them.
www.dailymail.co.uk...
www.dailymail.co.uk...
www.telegraph.co.uk...
www.bbc.co.uk...

What you have to realise is that this is deliberate, they want the poor young to come and work for nothing, to not pay our own children and to kill off anyone they deem to be useless to there plan.

THEY ARE THE FOURTH REICH and they are not all German's but they do represent the same elite that the Nazi's ultimately did but this time from more than one country, the Global elite.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I guess you voted leave as I did then

a reply to: tothetenthpower

It isn't so much don't want to do as they do it cheaper, and the fatcat bosses can't resist an extra layer of fat on their chubby chins.

During the referendum we have repeatedly drawn attention to our sector’s need for access to migrant labour, both seasonal and full-time. Outside the EU we will need some kind of student agricultural workers scheme, which is open to students from around the world.

www.stackyard.com...

A simple replacement of terms can do the trick. More or less the same system with a different label to describe it.

a reply to: grainofsand

I really had no choice and beside's Europe is a doomed project, that or the people of Europe are doomed as the Troika are the one's really running it, sadly we are still under there thumb but let's keep a watch and see what happen's eh.

I thought abour remain as I was disgusted with that young MP's murder (normally I would line the lot of them up and shoot them but she was Actually a nice person just on the other side of the view point and her murderer was an absolute nutter) but in the end voted out and am growing increasingly pleased that I did, someone has to put a stop to the corporation's Nazi's running roughshod over our right's of course we also need to fix our own parliament now and that is going to be a hell of a lot harder as those cockroaches infest it something shocking.