There Are Some Sad People In Brussels.

a reply to: LABTECH767

At least we can focus on fixing the rot as a country now.
I hope and believe we will all find a new unity in Britain.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

I do get what you are saying, but here is the thing.

Most of those who voted to leave did so to stem the tide of people coming here.

That's weird, grainofsand suggests how horribly bigoted that makes them. So, are you saying most who voted to leave are horribly bigoted?

Look, the decision has been made, whether you or others like it or not discussions will at some point need to take place. Seeing as I'm more Irish and Polish by descent than English (born here, one parent half Polish, the other fully Irish) I think I've as much right as anyone to an opinion on how we as a country should ensure those that came to live here have as much right as those who left here to live/work elsewhere - it's not all in our court.

Maybe a poor bit of phrasing on my part since I was trying to answer the bit about your bnp loving neighbours.

I must say though, the rest of your post baffles me. You want to use these people as bargaining chips?

They are human beings. No way.
Not in my country.
I'm not the most progressive of blokes, I admit, that though is beyond the pale.

I don't want to use anyone as bargaining chips, but whether you like it or not, people in the EU working in the UK and people from the UK working in the EU will be part of the discussion - you don't like that? Neither do I, suggesting I do is silly, I'm talking facts.

As you said, the majority voted to cut down immigration, not just my neighbours, the people in your street, or the next street - don't please try and tarnish me by stating a fact.

originally posted by: 83Liberty

originally posted by: uncommitted
Thank you for the reminder, and a very true one it is. None of the Brexit people offered up a manifesto at all.

When I said 'post Brexit manifesto', I'm referring to any promises Brexit campaigners may have made.
Not an actual full manifesto, hence the inverted comma's.

Oh, no, I agree totally. Lots of soundbites, no detail from anyone. Kind of a 'jam tomorrow' kind of thing.......... Johnson was promising it up until the day his political ambitions hit the dust.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: grainofsand

I really had no choice and beside's Europe is a doomed project, that or the people of Europe are doomed as the Troika are the one's really running it, sadly we are still under there thumb but let's keep a watch and see what happen's eh.

I thought abour remain as I was disgusted with that young MP's murder (normally I would line the lot of them up and shoot them but she was Actually a nice person just on the other side of the view point and her murderer was an absolute nutter) but in the end voted out and am growing increasingly pleased that I did, someone has to put a stop to the corporation's Nazi's running roughshod over our right's of course we also need to fix our own parliament now and that is going to be a hell of a lot harder as those cockroaches infest it something shocking.

I think you couldn't be more right. The momentum group keeping Corbyn in power even it seems against his own will is an infestation that will kill the labour party. I wonder what that will mean for any kind of opposition - what do you think? Nice you'd like to see people being shot, that's again very clear headed. I love the maturity of the debate.

a reply to: crazyewok

Yeah WE get that crap all the time in an attempt to minimize national pride and that stuff.
You guys hate arrogant cowboys,same thing...
usdefensewatch.com...
IGNORE them.
They are just pissy because they had designs requiring your people ,NOW they don't have that option.
We do all await what what happens next, but falling?
PFFFFT,FIGGETABOUT IT.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: uncommitted

I do get what you are saying, but here is the thing.

Most of those who voted to leave did so to stem the tide of people coming here.

That's weird, grainofsand suggests how horribly bigoted that makes them. So, are you saying most who voted to leave are horribly bigoted?

Look, the decision has been made, whether you or others like it or not discussions will at some point need to take place. Seeing as I'm more Irish and Polish by descent than English (born here, one parent half Polish, the other fully Irish) I think I've as much right as anyone to an opinion on how we as a country should ensure those that came to live here have as much right as those who left here to live/work elsewhere - it's not all in our court.

Maybe a poor bit of phrasing on my part since I was trying to answer the bit about your bnp loving neighbours.

I must say though, the rest of your post baffles me. You want to use these people as bargaining chips?

They are human beings. No way.
Not in my country.
I'm not the most progressive of blokes, I admit, that though is beyond the pale.

I don't want to use anyone as bargaining chips, but whether you like it or not, people in the EU working in the UK and people from the UK working in the EU will be part of the discussion - you don't like that? Neither do I, suggesting I do is silly, I'm talking facts.

As you said, the majority voted to cut down immigration, not just my neighbours, the people in your street, or the next street - don't please try and tarnish me by stating a fact.

Did you not read my earlier post where I repeated what Leadsom said? She point blank refused to consider the status of EU nationals living here as up for discussion. She effectively guaranteed their right to remain, which is the right thing to do.
Never mind what the EU might threaten to do with expat Brits, we shouldn't be drawn into this particular tit for tat thing on this issue.

Sure, we can have no guarantees off the EU yet, but we can guarantee how we will treat people can't we?

a reply to: uncommitted

So you, me, and Sprocket agree that we would oppose kicking settled EU nationals out.
We also agree that having equitable controls on immigration for people from all over the world is sensible for local authorities to plan.

What is it you think we all disagree on?
Just the vote itself and you voted remain perhaps?

Why not move on and work together towards a strong nation which looks after it's people? You had issues when I said I'd fight any immigration snatch squads (if it ever happened, you know, hypothetically) WTF was that all about? How could you have issues with that?

I think you are just bitter about losing the vote and you are making silly things up to argue against. It appears almost trollish to me, but hey, carry on, it's up to other members to decide whatever it is exactly that you are whinging about in this thread.

Cut the BS !
the EU have taken a lot of jobs from the uk.
And the EU has taken a lot of jobs in the uk.
I don't think the EU has created any jobs in the uk ! We created them .

I BET ITS THE SAME AS THE 350 million !
We all know it wasn't what 350 million !

But I know it's something !
The EU has stripped our country !

All the taxpayer owned company's !
Who owns them now ?

And to be honest I hope all the bankers relocate , and play roulette with some ducker else's money because they LOSE AND STILL WIN !

Funny that

a reply to: Denoli

I get your anger, I really do.
Just think on this, EU rules forced the privatisation of Royal mail, forbade the renationalisation of steel and railways.
When we are free, we can elect people who might go down that route if we want.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: alldaylong Let's see, our country has collapsed politically has it?

Yep. Check out the news: Boris stabbed in the back, Cameron out, Nigel out. A parliament lamed. Pound on it's lowest since 31 years. Lawyers engaged to point out the legal flaws in the process. Oh, dear, you yourself, a decent left-wing guy, falling to fecking nationalism, crying "RULE BRITTANIA" and all that. Yep, collapsed.

Then how is it that seventy two percent of the eligible electorate came out to vote, when last they had the opportunity to make their voices heard?

Fine democrats indeed! Only ... why didn't they come out in equal numbers to vote for their BRITISH Parliament when they had the chance? They seem to be rather selective "democrats". Anyway, all this proves is that 72 percent of the Brits are roughly halfways for or against the Brexit. Duh.

I would say that the general election which saw this current Conservative mob elected was FAR more of an indicator of a collapsed politics.

Mark that it were BRITISH elections, ruled by BRITISH Law, set up by BRITISH politicians, most BRITS choose to stay at home (fine democrats) and then the very BRITISH conservatives won (kinda). Well, and then they put you into the current mess: no plan, just very BRITISH hot air. No teeth behind their stiff upper lip.

What has been collapsing our politics in this country since Labour became Tory Lite, is a lack of representation for the working poor, the grassroots left, and an abundance of pandering on both sides of the house to big business, something the EU government are also very bad with.

O, dang, I actually agree with you here. Nothing wrong with this part, keep calm, carry on

This Dutch fellow clearly has no concept of history, despite probably being an old fart.

He's a liberal, and relatively young. Admirable chap, but on the wrong side of the political spectrum in my book. So, I tend to filter what he says, but in this case, he's not far from the truth.

The documents which, when combined, make up our constitutional arrangements, specifically state that no foreign power may be wielded over this nation, unless the people acquiesce to that circumstance by way of a vote.

No "foreign power" is wielded over your nation at all. Each and every decision that you made within the EU was approved by your Parliament, which you choose yourself. All so-called "EU Laws" are actually British Laws, crafted after EU directives etc. but nevertheless - BRITISH Law. If your Parliament had chosen not to implement these regulations nobody could have forced them. So, it are the BRITS that are responsible for everything that happens on the Island, not other nations. That is an essential part of the EU deal: the EU can not change the autonomy of nations.

We never got the chance. We got a crappy referendum, campaigning for which was uniformly disgraceful at the time, and during which time, no one knew what the bloody hell was really going on, because everyone was lying through their teeth about the real intent behind the EU.

Actually, the Brits begged for membership. I can't help it, it's a fact. And if the Brits somehow failed to miss the upheaval the TWO denials of membership they got from the French caused, they must be deaf, dumb and blind.

RULE BRITANNIA!

Indeed! King David will lead you out! If not, Boris will, or Nigel. Oh, not? They promised to do so last week... but time flies when we're having fun. Well, okay, then another very BRITISH politician that happens to be democratically choosen by BRITS. In BRITAIN.

Hey, TB, I like you. I like the Brits, actually. A lot. I agree with you on that our world is suffering from corporatism, lack of solidarity, lack of dignity. But don't give me the sheite about the EU being somehow responsible for the mess created by BRITISH politicians back in the days of begging for membership. Nor is the EU to blame for the current mess created by BRITISH politicians again. If what we currently see is the British Standard for the Brexit, you'd be better of dissolving your parliament and let Brussels decide for you. At least then you would HAVE a plan.

Rule Brittania indeed..

a reply to: ForteanOrg

No The U.K. has not politicaly collapsed as that Dutch tosser claims it has.

When you see riots in every town and city of The U.K. and the masses storming Parliament then he may have a point.

If you want to see a country that has politicaly collapsed then you can begin with Syria.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: Denoli

I get your anger, I really do.
Just think on this, EU rules forced the privatisation of Royal mail, forbade the renationalisation of steel and railways.
When we are free, we can elect people who might go down that route if we want.

All these steel plants should of been snapped up and invested in instead of been sucked out of every last penny !

I'd pay a higher tax or a bit of hit to the pound knowing I'm taking it for a fellow brit .
Not someone taking the piss

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ForteanOrgNo The U.K. has not politicaly collapsed as that Dutch tosser claims it has.

Duh.. your political leader resigns if the outcome of the referendum he himself promised to arrange does not suit him. Others in his party stab each other in the back to get their arses on the seat he will leave in october. No plan at all is available to realise the outcome of your referendum. Your pound is down over 10 percent. The guy that fought for this "victory" for ages suddenly disappears from the political stage "to get his life back".

I'd say it's a political collapse. But I'm not confusing that with chaos. That will come later.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
I'd say it's a political collapse. But I'm not confusing that with chaos. That will come later.

I'd say it is pure speculation on your part, and I think claims of chaos are a bit dramatic lol but I'm sure you know that.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ForteanOrgNo The U.K. has not politicaly collapsed as that Dutch tosser claims it has.

Duh.. your political leader resigns if the outcome of the referendum he himself promised to arrange does not suit him. Others in his party stab each other in the back to get their arses on the seat he will leave in october. No plan at all is available to realise the outcome of your referendum. Your pound is down over 10 percent. The guy that fought for this "victory" for ages suddenly disappears from the political stage "to get his life back".

I'd say it's a political collapse. But I'm not confusing that with chaos. That will come later.

You must be a barrel of laughs at a party.

Political leaders resign all the time. It's part of political life. My life has not changed since the decision to leave The E.U.

This Dutch bloke is throwing his toys out of the pram, becuase with the loss of the £billions the U.K. pays into The E.U. it's going to leave a "black hole " in E.U. finances.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Yep. Check out the news: Boris stabbed in the back, Cameron out, Nigel out. A parliament lamed. Pound on it's lowest since 31 years. Lawyers engaged to point out the legal flaws in the process. Oh, dear, you yourself, a decent left-wing guy, falling to fecking nationalism, crying "RULE BRITTANIA" and all that. Yep, collapsed.

The voting was rigged because the voters were forced to use pencil which the clueless elite tried to rub out and force the UK to stay in the EU. The speculation stated that it was more like 65-35 in favor of Brexit.

Nigel has left the EU which he stated he would do as his task is now complete. He is now going to try to get voted into the UK Parliament.

Britain has left the sinking EU Titanic that is printing Debt and about to get nuked by Russia. One little mistake with all those NATO tanks on Russia’s Western borders and its bye-bye Europe. Britain basically said 'screw you Fourth Reich in BruSSels'.

Reading the venom between your lines it would seem you cannot wait for the nu-world NAZI EU Brownshirt's to goose-step on UK soil and help the crazy Scots invade the UK after we rebuild Hadrian's Wall for a laugh.

i am surprised that the EU hasn't invaded the White Cliffs of Dover because the 'White' in the name is racism.

The Scots are bad enough when drunk. Zoned out Zombies from the North, beyond the wall, is going to be a completely different issue.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
I'd say it's a political collapse. But I'm not confusing that with chaos. That will come later.

I'd say it is pure speculation on your part, and I think claims of chaos are a bit dramatic lol but I'm sure you know that.

Hey, we're on ATS, discussing POLITICS...

a reply to: alldaylong

You must be a barrel of laughs at a party.

The guy is parrotting the Dutch Government propaganda channel. Very typical.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

You know what I see happening to Westminster right now? Terror. Not of what we are about now, but of what WE the people will do next.

I have said from the beginning that this is an opportunity for our people. We have proven that we can remove one of the stumbling blocks from our path as a people, come together to make our destiny truly our own, piece by sweating piece. There is but one more key blockage before us, our own government. We must now steel ourselves to get this first win moved through, and then it's on to Westminster itself. The next ballot I place inside a box will be one of millions which decide the leadership of this nation.

If the political parties are flailing now, you wait until we see who stands for election next time around! Either they will finally offer us the real freedoms we seek, our privacy back, honourable conduct from our officials, a cessation of interventionist strategy in foreign lands, a get out clause which allows the people to oust a government mid term if they fail to comply with the instructions of their people in even the slightest way, amongst others, or they will be left in the cold.

You see, we just gave EVERYONE a wake up call. Yes, we voted out of the EU, and yes, some idiots did it for the wrong reasons. But this was the first time in years that the people's choice actually made any difference to the outcome at all! We have had years, decades almost of having no option but failure, with successive governments and leaders being essentially the same accident on a different highway. When we, the people of the United Kingdom voted together and made something happen though, many people will have realised that they can change things. They can make something happen.

The next election we have here will not have a small turnout. It is not going to have escaped the notice of the parties, all of them, from small to large, that if they do not produce policies, candidates, and ideas which are in accordance with the needs and instructions of the electorate, they will lose seats and power. It will occur to them also, that with turnout as high as I would expect after this huge event, whoever is voted in will have the strongest mandate possible to move with the people's consent.

There is much to be done, and we are not finished yet. There are moves to make.

Just watch. Prepare to be amazed.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: ForteanOrg
Just watch. Prepare to be amazed.

Even more amazed than I am now? Well, that'll be the day