Seattle sees fallout from $15 minimum wage, as other cities follow suit

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: DAVID64

You would be surprised how many people cannot do the job of a fast-food worker. I assume you've never been in charge of hiring people in that kind of job.

I also do hiring. I work in a casino and you have to pass a background check and drug test. Probably 80% of the people can't get past that point. A lot of the young kids we hire its their first job or close to it. Sadly as I get older the work ethic of this younger generation is lacking or non existent. They are an entitled bunch who feel the rules don't apply to them and they shouldn't have to do much of anything. They also like to create drama, and form cliques like its high school.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JeanPaul

t wasn't the end of the gold standard that did it, the thought is absurd.

You know what is absurd? You. Constant proclamations without substantiation.

Take a look at the United States historical inflation rate and tell me when the acceleration really began:

Fiscal policies under the Nixon Administration lead to the most rapid increase in inflation in the last century which carries into the present. When a government can print money without it being tied to commodities it begins to decrease in value in relation to the amount printed as the currency becomes more debased. This is a historical FACT.

The increasing inflation rate leads to a 'hidden' tax on the populace which is most felt, due to market dynamics, by the middle class. If you feel like disproving this try posting something than your on ignorant opinion.

lol, more free market snake oil. The wealth divide has much more to do with income. If you'd like I can post about 50 chats and graphs showing the income for middle and working class compared to the top 1%. It will be a waste of time yes? You'll never change your mind.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JeanPaul
It is a factor. If you don't pay employees enough...

That is where you should have ended your sentence.

If you do not pay your employees enough THEY LEAVE AND FIND ANOTHER JOB.

That is how the free market works.

No, they apply for welfare. That is how the "free market" works.

originally posted by: ZenTam

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: DAVID64

You would be surprised how many people cannot do the job of a fast-food worker. I assume you've never been in charge of hiring people in that kind of job.

I also do hiring. I work in a casino and you have to pass a background check and drug test. Probably 80% of the people can't get past that point. A lot of the young kids we hire its their first job or close to it. Sadly as I get older the work ethic of this younger generation is lacking or non existent. They are an entitled bunch who feel the rules don't apply to them and they shouldn't have to do much of anything. They also like to create drama, and form cliques like its high school.

Those rebel scum. Some of them are even listening to that new Elvis guy, shaking their hips in public!

What free market goons ignore, is at the same time of the "Nixon Shock" the US economy itself was being restructured. It wasnt just the end of the gold standard but also the rise of neoliberal globalization.

The Chicago School began making gains, setting the early foundation for Regans administration. Unions, in the 1970's, came under attack. A massive amount of production jobs began leaving the US with low wage service jobs replacing them. Wages began to almost stagnate since the 1970's. Income for the top earners and for people with a large amount of capital began to skyrocket. There's endless data showing this. Showing the massive accumulation of capital since the late 1970's.

Inflation does have a smaller impact on some. Especially if wages/income doesn't adjust. Which is what we've seen over the last 35 years. The ironic part, with people whining about inflation, is in the end I can use that as another argument for higher wages.

Anyway, look what happened when off shoring began, when China opened up its markets and when Reagan took office, the INCOME inequality:

piketty.pse.ens.fr...




Look where 80% of the people are employed compared to the 1950's-1960s:

piketty.pse.ens.fr...

originally posted by: DAVID64
But, is the kid that fixed your Big Mac on the same par as the guy who designed the building you work in? Does that kid asking "You want fries with that?" deserve to make as much as You?

And you hit the nail on the head. THAT is exactly why communism will never..ever.. work. Because those that put in more effort will generally believe (and I do as well) that they should also be compensated to a higher degree.

Myself, I've gone through years of working during the day and going to school at night in order to obtain my masters. Does this make me a better person than someone flipping burgers or picking up garbage?... Not at all.. But it does mean that I expect a return in the form of greater compensation.

There are a lot of people that take simple jobs (not necessarily easy) like fast food as being a career. These jobs should be a stepping stone and used for experience, not necessarily a career path.

I personally believe that we need to bring manufacturing back to North America. This will greatly assist in providing an entrance back in to the middle class but the problem is simply that manufacturing in North America is not competitive both domestically and internationally (for export purposes). Trade Tariff's may provide some relief but this is only a temporary solution.

In short, we need to find a way in which all countries are playing on a level playing field and to ensure that there are no cost advantages in terms of currency or labour costs from one country to the next.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: johnwick

Pretty sure the "value" being referred to here is "value added to society."

But I'm sure you knew that.

I'm pretty sure that minimum wage workers do add value to society. But I'm sure you knew that as well.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
What facts have you posted? You have posted your conditioned believes to justify your reality, and what you do as it is good for you to keep practicing it. Beyond that what you say is pretty much nothing above that.

originally posted by: JeanPaul

originally posted by: ZenTam

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: DAVID64

You would be surprised how many people cannot do the job of a fast-food worker. I assume you've never been in charge of hiring people in that kind of job.

I also do hiring. I work in a casino and you have to pass a background check and drug test. Probably 80% of the people can't get past that point. A lot of the young kids we hire its their first job or close to it. Sadly as I get older the work ethic of this younger generation is lacking or non existent. They are an entitled bunch who feel the rules don't apply to them and they shouldn't have to do much of anything. They also like to create drama, and form cliques like its high school.

Those rebel scum. Some of them are even listening to that new Elvis guy, shaking their hips in public!

Make fun, but sadly they are the future. Dumb kids breeding dumb kids. And no matter how many tries you give them and help they still can't manager to care enough.

originally posted by: JeanPaul
lol, more free market snake oil. The wealth divide has much more to do with income. If you'd like I can post about 50 chats and graphs showing the income for middle and working class compared to the top 1%. It will be a waste of time yes? You'll never change your mind.

Sure, post them. The you can also explain how a weak dollar and inflationary economics does not hurt the middle class.

Your focus on class warfare instead of market dynamics demonstrates your minimal grasp of economics. How did the 1% get there?

originally posted by: JeanPaul
No, they apply for welfare. That is how the "free market" works.

Maybe that is your method of improving your earnings. Me, I find better jobs.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
What facts have you posted?

Reread my posts in this thread. Everything I have said was either substantiated or can be.

Unless your sole participation in this thread is going to be childish insults regarding screen names.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JeanPaul
lol, more free market snake oil. The wealth divide has much more to do with income. If you'd like I can post about 50 chats and graphs showing the income for middle and working class compared to the top 1%. It will be a waste of time yes? You'll never change your mind.

Sure, post them. The you can also explain how a weak dollar and inflationary economics does not hurt the middle class.

Your focus on class warfare instead of market dynamics demonstrates your minimal grasp of economics. How did the 1% get there?

My "minimal grasp of economics". Ya, OK.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JeanPaul
No, they apply for welfare. That is how the "free market" works.

Maybe that is your method of improving your earnings. Me, I find better jobs.

Living wage jobs grow on tress you know (sarcasm) This argument would hold up if there were in fact enough living wage jobs for the entire population. The closest we came to this utopian capitalist vision was during the post war boom. Are you trying to tell me each and every American can have a living wage job?

Ah, the meritocracy! The view is bankrupt. It doesn't mesh with reality.

originally posted by: EarthPilgrim

originally posted by: DAVID64
But, is the kid that fixed your Big Mac on the same par as the guy who designed the building you work in? Does that kid asking "You want fries with that?" deserve to make as much as You?

And you hit the nail on the head. THAT is exactly why communism will never..ever.. work. Because those that put in more effort will generally believe (and I do as well) that they should also be compensated to a higher degree.

Myself, I've gone through years of working during the day and going to school at night in order to obtain my masters. Does this make me a better person than someone flipping burgers or picking up garbage?... Not at all.. But it does mean that I expect a return in the form of greater compensation.

There are a lot of people that take simple jobs (not necessarily easy) like fast food as being a career. These jobs should be a stepping stone and used for experience, not necessarily a career path.

I personally believe that we need to bring manufacturing back to North America. This will greatly assist in providing an entrance back in to the middle class but the problem is simply that manufacturing in North America is not competitive both domestically and internationally (for export purposes). Trade Tariff's may provide some relief but this is only a temporary solution.

In short, we need to find a way in which all countries are playing on a level playing field and to ensure that there are no cost advantages in terms of currency or labour costs from one country to the next.

Most modern socialists don't advocate this silly straw man. This pseudo utopian view of abject equality. Money and wages are advocated by most modern socialists. Even further, market socialism can be run under "free market" conditions or Post Keynesian, New neoclassical etc. It's simply worker run capitalism.

originally posted by: ZenTam

originally posted by: JeanPaul

originally posted by: ZenTam

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: DAVID64

You would be surprised how many people cannot do the job of a fast-food worker. I assume you've never been in charge of hiring people in that kind of job.

I also do hiring. I work in a casino and you have to pass a background check and drug test. Probably 80% of the people can't get past that point. A lot of the young kids we hire its their first job or close to it. Sadly as I get older the work ethic of this younger generation is lacking or non existent. They are an entitled bunch who feel the rules don't apply to them and they shouldn't have to do much of anything. They also like to create drama, and form cliques like its high school.

Those rebel scum. Some of them are even listening to that new Elvis guy, shaking their hips in public!

Make fun, but sadly they are the future. Dumb kids breeding dumb kids. And no matter how many tries you give them and help they still can't manager to care enough.

There has been dumb people since the beginning of time. If you have issues with people under your management perhaps you should question your management skills? Also, I don't think most of us actually enjoy work either. Not in today's conditions. Young people have spirit. They tend to view the world in a more honest manner. Over the years American capitalism has people working harder for less pay.

In a sane and rational world we'd all be working 25-30 hour weeks for living wages. That was actually capitalism's promise to the working class. That the quality of life would exponentially improve, and not just by the availability of consumer goods (via debt). This promise has been broken:

www.cbsnews.com...

originally posted by: JeanPaul

My "minimal grasp of economics". Ya, OK.

Yeah, since I am still waiting on your stellar grasp of economics to disprove my inflationary economics point.

originally posted by: JeanPaul
Are you trying to tell me each and every American can have a living wage job?

That is a straw man, not every person is capable of earning a 'living wage' and will permanently be on some form of subsidized income (disabled, handicapped, etc.). For the rest, if you fail to increase your worth in the market, e.g. degree, trade school, apprenticeship, entrepreneurship, then why should the people who did subsidize you?

Ah, the meritocracy! The view is bankrupt. It doesn't mesh with reality.

Just because you or someone else is disenfranchised with your life and/or career does not mean the system is broken.

I have to address the elitist attitude of "just go get a better education".

I have worked retail sales my whole life at all different wages and in management as well, you would be surprised how many highly educated people I have worked with. I ask them what are you doing here making so much less money, there answers vary. One is they looked for years for a job in their field but so much time has passed employers aren't looking for a 10 year old degree, and old experience. So after a decade of trying they gave up.
These people are smart and educated and they can't get jobs in their field, so they get stuck in other types of jobs that pay way less. Some even won't be hired because they are over educated, in other words the employer doesn't want to hire somebody with a 6 year degree because he know he will be trying to do better . The education actually works against them

So don't give me the "oh just go get a better education to better your wage" attitude thats not a 100% guarantee of getting a life long awesome paying job.

If you did, and your making $30/hr awesome, it's great, but don't look down on those in other lower lines of work, they may be just as educated as you are, just underemployed for a variety of reasons.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
I have to address the elitist attitude of "just go get a better education".

I have worked retail sales my whole life at all different wages and in management as well, you would be surprised how many highly educated people I have worked with. I ask them what are you doing here making so much less money, there answers vary. One is they looked for years for a job in their field but so much time has passed employers aren't looking for a 10 year old degree, and old experience. So after a decade of trying they gave up.
These people are smart and educated and they can't get jobs in their field, so they get stuck in other types of jobs that pay way less. Some even won't be hired because they are over educated, in other words the employer doesn't want to hire somebody with a 6 year degree because he know he will be trying to do better . The education actually works against them

So don't give me the "oh just go get a better education to better your wage" attitude thats not a 100% guarantee of getting a life long awesome paying job.

If you did, and your making $30/hr awesome, it's great, but don't look down on those in other lower lines of work, they may be just as educated as you are, just underemployed for a variety of reasons.

That's basically what this thread has turned into it seems.