Seattle sees fallout from $15 minimum wage, as other cities follow suit

originally posted by: notmyrealname
That is sort of a myopic view wouldn't you say? I have no way of knowing however I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the $45,000 that AugustusMasonicus is referring to was not a recent job and most likely the equivalent of much more in buying power than if it were the same 45K today.

That was 1993 and 1994. I have not made less than 100K since 1998.

originally posted by: JeanPaul
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He worked for a supermarket at age 23 with no degree and made over $45,000 a year. That's how he started his business. According to him.

Exactly. I also worked construction on the side and at my friends GNC on some week nights.

In an earlier post he said it's not his concern what his employees make or that its not his responsibility to make sure they have food, clothing and shelter. My point is, it sure as heck sounds like his early employer took good care of him, which is how he was able to survive and also save money to start a business.

I worked hard for them (as I do very every employer including myself), they did not 'take care of me'. I was the first person to ask for extra assignments, training or hours. I was managing 15 people when I was 19 and 52 department heads in our seafood division when I left in 1995 to open my first restaurant.

originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: amicktd
Solution is simple:

1. Stop blaming others for the situation.

2. Change the system that you think is broken or change you.

3. Stop thinking that it is easy for me to say….

Anyone can make noise about what is wrong and I see a lot making statements calling for more government intervention which is what exacerbated this situation in the first place. Your choices led to your situation.

I am not saying that things are not difficult these days for many. I am saying that more government in your life is not the long term solution.

How about you actually address my actual posts instead of putting words in my mouth.

First off, I didn't ask for more government. Second, I didn't blame anyone for the situation other than inflation. Third, I never said its easy for you to say anything. But, if its hard for you to say something, then I just feel bad for you.

The system that is broken is all at the top. They use our tax dollars to bail out greedy corporations, then after they used our money to stay afloat they just continue screwing us as they did before. The only thing that can fix that is dealt with in politics. But, as its known the whole system is corrupt and rigged for the rich.

Finally, my situation is fine. I don't have financial issues. I was speaking for all those people out there making 35K - 50K a year while the corporations continue to break record profits year after year and not compensating the employees.

It's amazing how bad your reading comprehension skills are, while being so condescending.

a reply to: amicktd
I do not remember actually addressing YOU personally in my reply. It was a response to what you posted as a hypothetical situation. If you feel slighted by my post personally, then you have some soul searching to do.

a reply to: notmyrealname

Wow are you serious right now? I quoted your REPLY to my post. How is that not addressing me personally? Oh nevermind I'm guessing you won't remember what I wrote right after you read it. Sounds to me like you're backpedaling now. Nevermind, I guess just keep blaming the poor since that's the trend these days.

originally posted by: amicktd
a reply to: notmyrealname

Wow are you serious right now? I quoted your REPLY to my post. How is that not addressing me personally? Oh nevermind I'm guessing you won't remember what I wrote right after you read it. Sounds to me like you're backpedaling now. Nevermind, I guess just keep blaming the poor since that's the trend these days.

As you have stated that your post was not about you and was in general to illustrate a subject matter, I simply did the same thing. If you want me to say it was persona; fine however that is not the intention of the post.

Also, my response was towards the poor who are always blaming the middle class or upper class (describing relative monetary earnings). I am not blaming the poor for anything; quite the opposite actually.

Fox Cites Misleading Anecdotes About Workers On Welfare To Attack Minimum Wage Increases

Conservative media have claimed for more than a year that Seattle's minimum wage would hurt the city's restaurants and small businesses, but a March 17 report by The Seattle Times revealed little anxiety about the pay increase. In fact, according to data from the Seattle Office of Economic and Financial Analysis, the city witnessed a small spike in restaurant permit requests in the month before wage increases were set to go into effect but otherwise requests have remained relatively flat. Finally, according to a June 4 report by Common Dreams, several of the most outspoken local opponents of Seattle's minimum wage increase have actually opened new restaurants and increased staff hiring since the ordinance went into effect.

LOL... Fox "News" stories as a thread basis... really?

1: The age old line in regards to minimum wage is these jobs are for "kids" sooooo 25 hrs at 15.00 instead of 40 at 9.00 wont help through school? Last I checked our global education stats simply had a picture of the US flag and the word "Retarded" written on it...

2: Who might WANT benefits + some work? I dunno i'm a single dad get stamps and medical and can make up to 2 G and keep them 25 - 30... K, Senior citizens? People who have had to get roommates due to the economy?

3: No one gives full time if you do a good job? really? Last I checked every place WAS keeping a few good people at those hrs who wanted it

The real issue is how much does it cost? Pay a waitress 15.00 an hr that's 10 Bucks more she runs 4 tables avg 2 people at a table (lame day) .75 on a drink or a refill charge of 50 cent's maybe .75 maybe 1.25 on a burger meal? Yeah... the increase will make me stop going out tomorrow...

Has anyone see how the bulk of crap consumers, kids, 20 somethings, etc actually dress and eat when nothing is left from a check?

Get a clue.... the people who make minimum wage are the only people that use the mall, fast food or any of these crap holes anyway... it goes right back in. Stop being ridiculous America.

a reply to: JeanPaul
Most managerial positions are not that hard as people make them out to be, there are lots of people making much more money for these chain branches, even those they hire on are those who are the more do anything type, not that far removed from those types they hire to keep the whole chain workforce in line. But over all its far from all that hard.

And people wonder why there boss is an asshole, because the system is set up like that from the lowliast job to the highest paying one, its why the more psychotic or simple minded are hired as CEO's, its to keep the funneling keep going on up. And the child shall lead them, even all your presidents are just children in mens bodies propped up by the system which keeps on churning along the $$$.

Its why the CIA generally when they take over a third world nation with billions worth of resources under the ground find the stupidest and meanest simpleton and put them in charge. Its to confound the whole chain line bellow them, and to make sure the profits go were they are meant to go. It is a pyramid scheme after all, and its why you always hear none issues expounded on every dam day in the news and on here constantly and consistently.

But ya! Funny that no, how they consistently try to convince people that working much more hours for a lot less pay is good for them, and the populous believes it. Psychobabble conditioned stamped and approved by the state. That right there is the maxim and creed of the whole system. Now how fast do you think they would start crying and whining if they suddenly got a raise or made more money? Would they be courageous enough to go no thank you sir, I will take my minimum wage at my long hours because its better for me.

Its all bull# on all parts.

I don't even want to read the rest of this thread. So much # in one day is more then I can stand, whats with this AugustusMasionicus guy? Somebody thinks highly of himself me thinks with such a grandiose screen name.

But anyways! In the end though! I expect this to go on for a few more generations at most. Then the reaping will begin, rinse and repeat like it has been through the ages. Its like a set pattern, fish not aware of there surroundings or who's bowl they are in.

a reply to: amicktd

Your disagreeing with my logic is no surprise.

I'm in Seattle and still make less than minimum, mostly because I work for a tiny company.

We got a pretty awesome socialist council member who gunned for this bill, and I still have to agree with her.

The main thing like others have mentioned is Seattle has really gotten expensive over the last few years. We have dumped tax dollars at our tunnel project that may still never get finished in a decent amount of time, gas and housing is outrageous, so is food and general utilities. Our transit system is finally getting overhauled but may be too little too late, and has been going thru the roof over the past 3 yrs (gets raised like 2x yearly). Most the jobs here are super low level tech industry garbage jobs, or management.

I think the bottom line is who has the most to lose if it does get raised? And if it doesn't? Large companies are enormously wealthy and have a huge profit to think about, and this hurts them. If it stays low, then the poorest workers suffer. The conditions under which they receive assistance should definitely be addressed though, the motivation to stay on assistance could become a problem (i know, duh).

originally posted by: notmyrealname

originally posted by: JeanPaul

originally posted by: notmyrealname

originally posted by: JeanPaul

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JeanPaul
How did you afford college?

I did not complete my freshman year but I was paying my own tuition.

What sort of work did you do to pay for rent, transportation/car insurance, electric/gas, healthcare, food and clothing while also saving? Details?

I had a part time job working for Supermarkets General, who owned Pathmark supermarkets among other holdings, and was offered a full time position at 18. I ended up taking this and by the time I was 23 I was making well over $45,000 per year with full benefits.

Ha! Worked for a supermarket making $45k a year. Ya, the checkout clerks at Safeway make around $20 an hour.

Do you pay your employees $45k a year?

That is sort of a myopic view wouldn't you say? I have no way of knowing however I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the $45,000 that AugustusMasonicus is referring to was not a recent job and most likely the equivalent of much more in buying power than if it were the same 45K today. If you are going to measure two things for comparison, you might want to normalize the scale first.

He worked for a supermarket at age 23 with no degree and made over $45,000 a year. That's how he started his business. According to him.

In an earlier post he said it's not his concern what his employees make or that its not his responsibility to make sure they have food, clothing and shelter. My point is, it sure as heck sounds like his early employer took good care of him, which is how he was able to survive and also save money to start a business.

So by that logic, when a person is smart, hard working or industrious and an employer recognizes that, the employer "gave something"? No the person EARNED something; what they did with that something that is completely up to them.

If you feel that you are "giving" your employees something then you business model is skewed. As an employer, your job is to ensure that your company remains competitive in the market to ensure that the business and it's employees survive (hopefully prosper). If you have a mindset that you are "giving" money to your employees then you will be looking for someone in the chain to "give" you something also. I do not have that mentality.

I could easily find labor for $12 an hour. I don't. I could easily not give raises and pay low wages.

I'm responding to this post:

"Why is that any business owner's responsibility? My job is to make sure my business remains viable, paying everyone else's rent, gas, food, insurance and auto financing is not a factor."

It is a factor. If you don't pay employees enough to live on, at least enough for a simple apartment, enough to provide food, transportation and clothing, then you're a leech depending on public assistance in order to subsidize your business.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: notmyrealname

The Federal Reserve has been cranking out funny money since it's inception and the major result is the loss of our currencies' value.

The main erosion of the middle class is when the dollar was delinked from gold in the 1970's. This allowed that printing to take place. We need a dollar linked to commodities to see real value reassert itself.

Austrian economics. lol.

The attack on US labor started in the 1970's when the greedy free market Chicago School "won" a position of influence. Monetarism and Neoliberalism has absolutely destroyed gains made in the 1950's-1960's. It wasn't the end of the gold standard that did it, the thought is absurd. It was the Monetarist policies, the Neoliberalism of Reagan and Thatcher, the massive expansion of offshoring, China's market reforms, India's development- the global chase of cheap labor, lax environmental regulations, lax labor standards and the propping up of governments that will subjugate labor for multinational corporations.

Neoliberalism. It has failed. Austrian mumbo jumbo about the gold standard is snake oil.

originally posted by: notmyrealname
a reply to: JeanPaul
So come up with a solution or quit because complaining about a problem without a solution is what losers do.

You think I'm some sort of superhero? Magical powers to wave a wand and change 100 years of economic, military and social propaganda? I think losers regurgitate the lies. That's what losers do. Maybe lemmings...One can be a lemming and loser. Especially when you go off that cliff.

originally posted by: xuenchen

Evidence is surfacing that some workers are asking their bosses for fewer hours as their wages rise – in a bid to keep overall income down so they don’t lose public subsidies for things like food, child care and rent.

Doh !!

Failure Inc.

maybe since they want less hours they can pay them less money. i really dont think they care. a fast food worker should not be making as much as a trades person. that is not a trade.

Thinking ahead is underdeveloped in humanity, we think because we can do it at all we are "good" at it, be we are not. As a species the bulk can't get beyond paychecks, want things to stay the same/change slowly etc...

There are no more jobs anyway, we might as well consider this a fact now because 20-40 years is nothing.

Machines can do most thing, intelligent machines will do most things better.

It's funny... the things left we will need humans to do are mostly things we consider "crap" right now... "services" if you "want" human services, to be waited on by people or socialized with in whatever way by actual "people" to put down the Oculus log off and get a massage by real human hands or have the experience of food prepared by a human and served by someone charming to get in touch with the "real" that will have value...

But your "stuff" worthless... built soon enough from a box in your home a 3-d printer with a button for metal, plastic, ceramic cut from blocks delivered to your home by automated truck or drone, mined and processed by machine the raw material itself likely brought down via machine from asteroid in unlimited supply for all intents and purposes utterly devaluing raw materials, even Platinum in a world in which the power comes from the sun and wind, your body is regenerated via stem cell and nanobot and gene therapy without even doctors being needed as your phone tracks every aspect of your health...

So "pay" people?

What does it even mean?

Agriculture has "Barter"

Industry evolved into "Money"

What will the "Communication" era's currency even be?

The reality is, Capitalism, commerce in general is dead, the science exists to head directly to a world with no poverty, no lack of goods or anything else with much of the population not "needed" anymore to build infra structure...

Give em 15... Go European Socialist...it's "closer" to what is really happening, which is the "Death of material Value" being held back ONLY by things like corporations, profit making governing bodies, Nestle thinking"water is own-able" Oil companies wishing to remain in business, governments which think in regards to "jobs" when... lol who even needs people at a fast food restaurant anyway? Cashiers in grocery stores... all the rest. I'm talking NOW, vending machines quality is not worse than MC crap, self checkout is everywhere, Cars are driving themselves etc, etc et al...

The people who want 15.00 are the people there because for whatever reason we WANT them there... because a lot of people don't wish to go through the robot at the store... so give it to them, money is going to die anyway, why have poverty and starvation and hate while it happens?

a reply to: JourneymanWelder

LOL

The Ego valuing a particular skill as important

Let me tell you as I move to the next era of computer cash "likely the last or one of" 3-d printing... I can do cooler stuff in my software and just "generate" it than any "craftsman can do for me...

Just furthering my last post... no offense please.

But if I want a new Toilet, I can make it via math on a machine to my exact specifications and style with far more accuracy than any guys "hands" and order it already... as it comes down in price your actually useless... I'll bold that "USELESS" compared to let's say, having a pretty girl serve me dinner

Understand?

You will never make a better cabinet or toilet or faucet or silverware set.... then a machine.

But people will "want" status and companionship and entertainment... The funny kid behind the counter, the sexy server, a rare live person on a telephone... those people have VALUE so don't kid yourself.

originally posted by: JeanPaul

t wasn't the end of the gold standard that did it, the thought is absurd.

You know what is absurd? You. Constant proclamations without substantiation.

Take a look at the United States historical inflation rate and tell me when the acceleration really began:



Fiscal policies under the Nixon Administration lead to the most rapid increase in inflation in the last century which carries into the present. When a government can print money without it being tied to commodities it begins to decrease in value in relation to the amount printed as the currency becomes more debased. This is a historical FACT.

The increasing inflation rate leads to a 'hidden' tax on the populace which is most felt, due to market dynamics, by the middle class. If you feel like disproving this try posting something than your on ignorant opinion.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
I don't even want to read the rest of this thread. So much # in one day is more then I can stand, whats with this AugustusMasionicus guy? Somebody thinks highly of himself me thinks with such a grandiose screen name.

So instead of refuting the facts that I post you decide to play juvenile ad hominem games. This is the refuge of the intellectually dishonest and those unable to actually debate the topic.

Go take some time and think of more insults. Ones that actually are clever.

originally posted by: JeanPaul
It is a factor. If you don't pay employees enough...

That is where you should have ended your sentence.

If you do not pay your employees enough THEY LEAVE AND FIND ANOTHER JOB.

That is how the free market works. If someone is willing to do something for less than you who are you to tell them that it is not enough? Why kind of pompous ass deigns to know what another person needs to support himself or their family without having them provide their own feedback?