NO reincarnation, " FOR YOU."

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding/ignorance from non-Buddhists about what Buddhism consists of...

The general theory seems to be Good/Bad Karma, reincarnation & worshipping the Buddha...none of which are particularly true.

The path that I follow explains that Karma is not a magical force, more just a way of encapsulating the idea that if you are a dick to everyone - chances are that you are going to be mistreated back and not have a particularly pleasant experience in life.
The opposite is true of 'good karma' or to simplify 'good deeds' though doing either does not guarantee the same result. Thats just life, but it is a good theory to work with.

Reincarnation is completely subjective to what you as a person believe in...

The Buddha is not a God. He didnt want to be worshipped, he wanted to be known as a teacher. You take his example and make your own decision...he is a great source of inspiration, but to me, that is about it in regards to Siddartha.

a reply to: JimNasium

One objective all spanning truth. Sikh Mul Mantra.

Ek Ong Kar
Sat Nam
Kartaa Purkh Nirbhao Nirvair

Akaal Moorat
Ajoonee, Saibhang, Gur Prasaad, Jap

Aad Sach, Jugaad Sach
Hai Bhee Sach, Nanak Hosee Bhee Sach
Nanak Hosee Bhee Sach

Ik- There is ONE(Ik) reality, the origin and the source of everything. The creation did not come out of nothing. When there was nothing, there was ONE, Ik.

Onkaar- When Ik becomes the creative principal it becomes Onkaar. Onkaar manifests as visible and invisible phenomenon. The creative principle is not separated from the created, it is present throughout the creation in an unbroken form, 'kaar'.

Satnaam- The sustaining principle of Ik is Satnaam, the True Name, True Name.

Kartaa Purakh- Ik Onkaar is Creator and Doer (Kartaa) of everything, all the seen and unseen phenomenon. It is not just a law or a system, it is a Purakh, a Person.

Nirbhau- That Ik Onkaar is devoid of any fear, because there is nothing but itself.

Nirvair- That Ik Onkaar is devoid of any enmity because there is nothing but itself.

Akaal Moorat- That Ik Onkaar is beyond Time (Akaal) and yet it is existing. Its a Form(Moorat) which does not exist in Time.

Ajooni- That Ik Onkaar does not condense and come into any birth. All the phenomenon of birth and death of forms are within it.

Saibhang- That Ik Onkaar exists on its own, by its own. It is not caused by anything before it or beyond it.

Gurprasaad- That Ik Onkaar is expresses itself through a channel known as Guru and it is only its own Grace and Mercy (Prasaad) that this happens.

Jap - Meditate

Aad Sach, Jugaad Sach Hai Bhee Sach, Nanak Hosee Bhee Sach
True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages. True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True.

originally posted by: Collateral
a reply to: FyreByrd

The Central tenant of Buddhism is to minimise or eliminate suffering through a variety of Buddhist teachings, methodologies, etc.

The reincarnation or Samsara aspect had a lot to do with the region the Modern Buddhism originated from and this it was incorporated into Buddhism.
That is not to say that you have to believe in reincarnation to be a Buddhist.

Zen Buddhism essentially has nothing to do with reincarnation, for example.

The Four Noble Truths
The spiritual path of Buddhism begins with the Four Noble Truths. These are not only the most basic Buddhist teachings; it is said that they encompass all of the teachings of the Buddha. Within the Truths are woven the Buddhist understanding of the self, of karma and rebirth, and of enlightenment and Nirvana.

buddhism.about.com...

and from a Zen Site:

THE CYCLE OF BIRTH AND DEATH
The Buddha pointed out that whenever one is reborn, whether as a human being, as an animal, or as a god, none of these states of existence is permanent. The average life span differs for living beings in the six realms of existence but none of them lasts forever. Eventually, rebirth will take place. The realm into which one is reborn and one's conditions of rebirth are determined by past and present actions. This is the law of karma at work.

Because of the force of their karma, people are born and reborn endlessly in one realm of existence or in another. The Buddha declared that there is no permanent rest in this cycle of birth and death. It is only when one follows the Noble Eightfold path taught by the Buddha and eventually attains Nirvana, that one finally becomes free from this ceaseless cycle and gains supreme and permanent happiness.

People who understand karma and rebirth see life in a better perspective. They understand that every action they perform will have its effects now and in the future. The knowledge gives them hope and strength in the face of difficulties. It gives them courage to continue doing good. They are convinced that they will experience the good effects of their wholesome actions either in the short-term or in the long-term.

www.zenguide.com...

and another:

In Zen, this is not an uncommon view for the beginners, but the view of many of the advanced practitioners is a bit less black and white, and more subtle. Because Zen and Buddhism's primary goal is the extinguishment of attachment and a cessation of suffering, it has no true concept of wrong, bad, sin, nor evil. It does acknowledge that most of us carry these concepts within us, as well as a strong sense of justice and injustice. When a person does something they consider bad or unjust, it is virtually always to satisfy some desire they have an attachment to. This tends to lead us away from the path toward extinguishment of attachment to desire. This is karma. Causing others pain for our own gain in turn causes us more suffering. This is not overtly apparent or no one would hurt others, but it becomes clearer the longer one practices and learns more about how their own mind works.

www.zen-georgia.org...

and in support of your views the same site says:

Rebirth, often confused with reincarnation, also has a broad set of definitions, depending on what school of Buddhism you are enquiring into.

First and foremost: Buddhism has no concept of a soul, so the idea of a soul passing from a person that dies to a person being born isn't Buddhist. Rebirth, in the Tibetan and Theravadan sense (and I say this without a lot of knowledge of these schools, so this could be wrong), is the passing of Karma debt, from lifetime to lifetime. Each life passing it's Karma to the next person's life, much as a candle's flame ignites another candle.

The Chan and Zen views of Rebirth are not the same. These schools make no assumptions or hold beliefs as to what happens after one dies. Because of this, rebirth is seen as being born into each moment, dying and being reborn into the next moment. This isn't something to be taken on faith, but to understood through your own practice.

Still interesting.

originally posted by: Tangerine


I asked a poster why s/he cared to find out why s/he cared. If I had assumed that there was only one reason for caring I would have had no reason to ask, would I?

Huge implications spiritually. LOL. They've just been told by their spiritual leader that their belief system is a crock. I've always admired the Dalai Lama, alone, among all religious leaders and now I know why: he's the only honest one.

No - you deliberately mis-intrepreted what the Dalai Lama said in order to denigrate a beloved religious figure and his adherents like a school-yard bully. To what end, we can only speculate but I would advise getting help for your feelings of inadequacy.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Again, a lot of re-birth teachings comes down to what the individual believes in...if you believe in re-birth, then thats excellent. Im not saying that its not true or not possible, but for me, it seems unlikely and thus does not drive my Buddhist path.

Also, as I said before, a lot of the re-birth talk stems from Buddhisms origins in India & the crossover between Hindu/Buddhist & earlier teachings/schools of thought.

Zen is very philosophical whereas Tibetan Buddhism is not, so you will find a lot more Tibetan Buddhists believing in re-birth.

Attachment & suffering are entwined together. The goal is to eliminate suffering in life; mainly through the elimination of attachment and desire.

I really love Buddhism because of how open and accepting it is as a philosophy. You can be a Christian Buddhist or a Muslim Buddhist...Buddhism wont be the ones objecting to that path.

This has been going on for years. HH the Dalai Lama, is by all accounts the 14th incarnation of the bodhisattva of compassion. He has been around for years and years, and the process of the cycle of birth and rebirth is always present. He can and has the ability to not return, to stop the wheel of reincarnation or to choose to take on another body. But in either case, not even the Chinese can determine where the spirit will be reborn, or in what body it will come back in. They can only hope it is Chinese, but what if it is not? And it would require that the new person pass the tests.

Yes, there is the one thing that the Chinese government cannot fake, and that is the test. You see ever Dali Lama, has a test, to determine if they are or are not the reincarnation of such. It starts with the State Oracles of Tibet, combined with the dreams of the high lamas and other officials. Then after they find the clues as to where the incarnation will be found, they will travel there, not in the full dress, but that of a simple monk, then find the child, test the child, and once it is determined which child, then bring the child to be tested again and for the state Oracles to confirm the incarnation, then the child has a life of being trained, to where they can take the test to be enthroned as the Dali Lama.

And that too can be a problem, because the Dali Lama is the foremost expert on all of the schools of Buddhism, 5 different schools of thought. Any interference by the Chinese, and the Tibetan’s and Buddhist will reject the person as being such.

What HH is talking about is ending the role of the Dali Lama as being head of the government, and taking on more of a role of being a simple monk and helping people. And the reality is that the Chinese can not have him around, as he represents a threat to them, and a reminder that they did invade and annex Tibet, nor can then not have him around, as then they would lose control over Tibet, having to send more resources there than they can afford to. It is a very complex love/hate relationship that they have.

a reply to: Peeple

That's just mean and wrong. What he is trying to point out is how the traditions are getting actively weakened by china and whoever would be his successor wouldn't have been able to go through the same teachings and learnings as he and the ones before him did. Buddhist monks have to become violent and get beaten dead on the streets and you are laughing your arse off? 
What are you heartless, brainless, or "just" without knowledge on how severe the situation for Tibetans is?

It might be a good idea to check Tibet's history before Chinese rule. Under lama rule, most of the population was starving and slaves to the selected few. Tibetans were punished in horrible ways including eye gauging , and loss of limbs.

All this under lama rule.

Of course, China have not exactly been saints, but it annoys the hell out of me that some people seem to think that Tibet was some sort of heaven on earth.

It was a hell hole.

The lama is not who people think he is

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Stormdancer777

So you think he was joking? Do you really believe it was a joke? They are on the edge of extinction, there are just these snobbistic hippster buddhists nowadays like you. No one who really knows and sees the suffering he tries to cope with when he still smiles and laughs. This is a tragedy a true tragedy for all mankind. I just don't see you know what you are talking about. And you're degrading it to a mere entertainment matter, while it is an old and important spiritual tradition coming to an end, because of surpressive violent forces. It's just a shame and nothing else. Shows how degenerated and cold the world has become, when someone who allegedly likes him makes him look like a Muppet.
Keep laughing, I cry.

Yeah, its a tragedy that the lama can't go back to China to rule with an iron fist, like him and his croanies di d before.

Its a tragedy that he a lines himself with celebs such as Sharon stone an d segal, to name such a few.

Its a tragedy that he stays in four star hotels and travels first class everywhere he goes .

This man, has a lot of people brainwashed. How many people know that he was actually on the CIA patrols after fleeing Tibet ?

a reply to: Stormdancer777

What gets me is the absurdity of the story. Is the Chinese government really claiming it can dictate into which child a reincarnated spirit will enter? Government sure is reaching these days for areas it can regulate. Does the Taoist Reincarnation Supervisor pay the child a visit? Who says the official that chooses the child has to be a Tibetan Buddhist? Absurd....

On a personal note Stormdancer I found your paraphrasing to be quite funny. It's a shame when people cannot see humor in a situation. That's a sign of a dying spirit.

a reply to: FyreByrd
Zen is not considered to be a valid school of Buddhism. Most of the other sects and schools view Zen with disdain and distrust. The reason why is that there is a break in the lineage. According to most, at one time it was considered to be a valid sect, but one day the head priest was killed, breaking the lineage, and the school was considered dead after that. For a school of Buddhism to be considered valid, there has to be an unbroken lineage of teaching, going from the Enlightened one, going from teacher to student, with no breaks.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: FyreByrd
Zen is not considered to be a valid school of Buddhism. Most of the other sects and schools view Zen with disdain and distrust. The reason why is that there is a break in the lineage. According to most, at one time it was considered to be a valid sect, but one day the head priest was killed, breaking the lineage, and the school was considered dead after that. For a school of Buddhism to be considered valid, there has to be an unbroken lineage of teaching, going from the Enlightened one, going from teacher to student, with no breaks.

Could you provide some sources please?

Would be the first I've heard of it & to say that a school of Buddhism is not valid because of lineage is laughable.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Dalai Lama 'profanes' Buddhism by doubting his reincarnation, says China

Say what?

www.smh.com.au...

Beijing: Exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama is profaning Buddhism by suggesting he will not be reincarnated when he dies, the Chinese-appointed governor of Tibet said on Monday, in some of China's strongest comments to date on the subject.

Tibetan Buddhism holds that the soul of a senior lama is reincarnated in the body of a child on his death. China says the tradition must continue and it must approve the next Dalai Lama.

But the Nobel peace laureate, who fled his homeland in 1959 after an abortive uprising against Chinese rule, has said he thinks the title could end when he dies.

Is this a joke?

Also, although many Tibetan and other Buddhist traditions posit some form of reincarnation, there are also Buddhist teachings and people that say there is no reincarnation.

However, some of this tat with Beijing is just political.

a reply to: Collateral
en.wikipedia.org...

Having done a lot of research into Buddhism, this is something that I had come across time and time again. Many Buddhist sects do not like Zen. It has taken a bit of time and research, but if you look at the Soto School of Zen, there is a break, the head of the sect died and did not pass on the teachings to the student who would take it up. This school was taken in by another school, but by that time frame the damage was done. You see in Buddhism, the line has to be passed both by oral tradition and by writing. If the main person dies before he can give the oral part, the line is considered broken and dead, thus no longer from the enlightened one. As the schools and lineages tended to merge and separate, that break, where it was indirect was enough to be viewed as incorrect and ultimately not valid.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Dalai Lama 'profanes' Buddhism by doubting his reincarnation, says China

Say what?

www.smh.com.au...

Beijing: Exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama is profaning Buddhism by suggesting he will not be reincarnated when he dies, the Chinese-appointed governor of Tibet said on Monday, in some of China's strongest comments to date on the subject.

Tibetan Buddhism holds that the soul of a senior lama is reincarnated in the body of a child on his death. China says the tradition must continue and it must approve the next Dalai Lama.

But the Nobel peace laureate, who fled his homeland in 1959 after an abortive uprising against Chinese rule, has said he thinks the title could end when he dies.

Is this a joke?

I don't believe it. The Chinese used to be Taoist or Confucian believers until 'fearless leader' Mao Tse-Tung ' told them to worship himself AS the CHAIRMAN; be good communists or be murdered (sort of like Hirohito as the Japanese Emperor or Hitler as Chancellor of Germany (worship the head of state OR ELSE). The Chinese wanted the Tibetan territory, their mysteries, gold and in the process attempted to ethnically cleanse Tibetans from the face of the earth.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

However this is all a moot point as the Buddha said himself that anyone can become enlightened. This means that you do not have to belong to a sect, etc.

To say a sect of Buddhism in not valid because the teachers line died out before it could be passed on sounds like it makes sense, but this is only true if that is the way that you wish to see Buddhism.

Again, Buddhism is extremely varied and very open to interpretation.

Going by what the Buddha said, Tibetan Buddhism would be "invalid" since they dont focus on coming to their own conclusions and discoveries, rather they strictly follow a previous set of rules. This completely flies in the face of what Buddha himself taught and one of the reasons the Tibetan sect does not interest me.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes on my posts. Using mob to send messages.

It just annoys me that people don't know, or ignore what Tibet was like under lama rule.

It drives me mad that people look up to this man, who is not what he seems.

But that's the world we live in

Basically, he's finally waking up to the way the World really works, and realizing that everything he thought he 'knew' was self-serving idolatry and drivel. Reincarnation is false. This man is getting closer to the end of his life, and like so many others, he is feeling the pressure God puts on folks towards the end. He is finally realizing how empty his beliefs are, and getting that sinking feeling in his guts, about where he will be in eternity. Good for him, perhaps he can finally put this false ideology to rest.

a reply to: Collateral

If you look at it from a historical perspective, even the Buddha was a rebel, finding that the structure of the religions back then did not offer the way off of the whel. But we digress in this:

The point being, that the Chinese can no more dictate how or where a person Reincarnates, as that is what their Karma dictates.

a reply to: Jay-morris

And the Dali Lama is wanting to change that, to where it is in the hands of the people, rather than then lamas. He is seeing that it is not wise to have religious people in power due to their position, where they should guide and teach, to comfort, rather than lead in a political way. The views are clearly pointed, and he is leaving it in the hands of the Tibetians to say if they want the office to continue as it is, or to end and that if he returns that he would be just a monk in a monestary.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

No matter what China has done in Tibet,
its not half as bad as what it was like under
lama rule. Around 95 % of the people were
starving and slaves. And yes, the deli lama had
slaves too.

What bugs me is the people who shout "free Tibet"
They most prob don't have a clue what Tibet was like under lama rule, and really think it was heaven
on earth, when in truth, it was one of the brutal places on earth at the time.

The "holy one" has people fooled with his words about peace and love. When really, its B

Talking about BS, Penn and teller put it the best.

link