The Kingdom of God, the Word & the Tree of Life -- Kabbalah

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Utnapisjtim: My point is: You can choose to read the tons of books that has been written on this gem, or you can go to the source and read the original book, do some research, meet a rabbi or two, talk to your priest, ask a Crowleyan and the old fart at the pub, funny thing is, that when you have learned how to understand and read the book, you realise you could have written quite a few books yourself from your studies of those ten or twelve pages. For you have a quired the knowhow to work the mechanics described.

I chose to read tons of books that were written on 'this gem'. I also go to 'the source' everyday and IT is not a Rabbi or a Priest (I'd be interested knowing what that 'original book is' and who authored it). Not Crowleys "Book of the Law". I have acquired the spiritual mechanics to work the paths within the 'tree of life' and no book can help you to do this as its not objective/subjective or logical (I paid my higher self off to do this).

Veteranhumanbeing: Its not about theory but practice; as no one can teach you how to acquire an enlightened state of being (although paying someone for their experience as/in book form to do so would make it easier; millions have been made off of the Bible; who has those publishing rights?). You could own the ancient Alexandrian Library and still with all the information within it would not lead to enlightenment/only a path or direction. You are either ready for the knowledge or you tread water, sit on the fence (your higher self knows best when you are ready). Are you searching for someone to give you an easier path? Theirs is an entirely different experience than yours (two individualized souls). One stands near a saltan sea; this body of water available for your eyes to consume, but none that is actually drinkable.

Utna: To echo your own words; «Your making too much of it.» These books are compressed wisdom ranging from rather archaic cosmology to really advanced physics. And like I'll show below: There is the story Life tells between the lines of the Tree of Life. No sane rabbi would agree, but bear with me. The Tree of life, is the Family-tree of Eve:

Why would a rabbi agree; this is hidden knowledge stolen from the 6D Sirian Egyptians (borrowed, to be kind; by the Hebrew) before the time of Exodus (a planned event; Moses as the perfect mole).

Utna: This is when it starts getting complicated, for the following involves a bit of fiddling and we're talking about "The Twelve Stars" or the "Crown of Life": Now, first son of Seth, Enosh (like Adam, his name means Man) was counted as Abel's son, and according to the rules, since he was the firstborn, and only son of Abel, he was counted among JHVH's sons together with Cain, his uncle, Adam, his grandfather, and later, Hanok his cousin, and of course his own firstborn son, Kenan and a few others, twelve to be precise: Now, counting the sons of JHVH among Adam's descendants who according to the rules were firstborns takes some fiddling and, well, all in all, the line of the Sons of JHVH among the Sons of Man/Adam ends with Henok/"Enoch" of Abel's leg, and grandfather of Noah; and with Lamek of Cain's leg.

Not complicated at all for me. The first "GOD" proper was the Sumarian ancestor Anu and his sons Enlil and Enki. All tales of creation in many civilizations stem from this; Gilgamesh, just too many to mention. I suppose it is the one that held the greater truth that kept it alive and was/is retold by many cultures that are not Judeo/Christian.

Utna: Hope this helped. Things aren't so devilish as you claim it to be. This is the bollocks told so "even mom can understand it" to copy the slogan of Kodak in the fifties. It's not so much magic as it is the Word of God, promising the Messiah and his Kingdom of God. I can't see why anyone, especially Christians, can call it sacrilege. It's the bleeding Gospel for Christ's sake. And you call it the plan of Satan and Witchcraft. If it is, then feel free to call me a Satanic Witch, and I'd be happy to curse you, or let's say prove to you that the Sun is in the centre of the Solar System. Shambles and ruins, you amaze me!

The word?, no; the WORK of God expressed itself FIRST by realizing it was alone and by creating frequencies of light and sound created an idea of 'matter' or geometry. It had no way to understand itself (no one around to live in judgement of: thereby giving it a false glimpse of itself, had to eventually defend itself against and by itself how fitting). Messiah? what? that person came as a fully 9 dimensional being for a purpose (and succeeded) to change an evil archetype (Roman domination of a meager society). Why would he return to this time period (TO SAVE WHAT? (believe me he has no interest in doing so and no money in any amount would persuade him). I never called anything a plan of Satan/Lucifers (even though am a HUGE fan of EnLightEnMenT; any more over the top illumination is even better). Why would you curse me; I am an innocent seeker of the truth: "Why am I here?". Shambles and ruins= order and perfection. I amaze you?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Originally posted by a reply to Joecroft
It’s just a shame your not a Woman, you’d be my perfect date lol

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
I could put on a skirt and some make-up?

LOL

On second thoughts….Not tonight Josephine, I’m studying Torah…

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
I have them all the time, it's called daydreaming
Jokes aside, our visual capacity as humans is out of time and dreams and visualisations, abstract thinking and well daydreaming and visions, it breaks the time barrier, so visualising things for your inner eye is useful and you can communicate with yourself in a future-past-present context.

Well, the first vision I had, was when I was praying to God, and over the years I’ve had quite a few others. Funny things is, is that they all have a similar feel to them, especially the waking vision ones. And they’re not like regular day dreams at all; for one thing, they feel unique, and another they leave a lasting impression in my mind, if that makes any sense…

Originally posted by a reply to Joecroft
I was just wondering if I could run it by you, to see what you make of it…no pressure…

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Could be worth a try I suppose. Drop me a pm or something. I have three symbol dictionaries too

I love a good challenge, so feel free to try me.

I think I’m going to be brave, and open myself to various psycho Freudian analysis, from various Atsers, to the inner workings of my own mind…lol by posting it here, out in the open.

One of the symbols is a snake, so it’s kind of on topic, for your OP and the Tree of Life etc…

My waking vision, was that of a Snake crawling through a Keyhole. The keyhole was situated on my left, which suggests that I’m inside, with the Snake coming in…

The snake of course is a huge esoteric symbol and is well documented etc…. The Keyhole however, has been trickier to discern. I believe the shape has a connection to what the Masons term the “keystone”. The Keystone according to one Ats member, is apparently used to describe how balance is accomplished within an 'arch'.

The Keyhole symbol is often dipcted as a truncated triangle/pyramid with arch/circle above it…It was apparently used by the Knights Templar for some of their structural layouts. The other wierd obsurdity, is that the keyhole shape can be found in St Perter’s Square!

Anyway, I’m not sure what the 2 symbols might mean, when combined together…

I found a picture online when I was researching it…I don’t know the artist personally, but it’s a good visual, of what I saw in my dream…

Here’s the picture below…





If you have any ideas just let me know, either here, or via u2u if you prefer…


- JC

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
Not at all; we are just long time friends that bicker occasionally;

bicker!…bicker!!!

Since when did we ever bicker…lol

We’ve had some amazingly deep discussions, on Gnosticism, the Essenes, Kabbala, Tree of Life, and the Bible, and how God should be re-defined, by the Human being etc.. Those discussions were always very jovial and friendly; they were happy times…

Wait a minute, you’re not still soar about the whole “being there” episode, are you…not that Ole baggage lol


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
Not at all; we are just long time friends that bicker occasionally;

JC: bicker!…bicker!!!
Since when did we ever bicker…lol

We’ve had some amazingly deep discussions, on Gnosticism, the Essenes, Kabbala, Tree of Life, and the Bible, and how God should be re-defined, by the Human being etc.. Those discussions were always very jovial and friendly; they were happy times.
Wait a minute, you’re not still soar about the whole “being there” episode, are you…not that Ole baggage lol

- JC

Not the having to BE Peter Sellars in "Being There" more of figuring out that multitasking is not a good thing as will not be recorded in the brain pan. You have to BE THERE in your existence (or participate a little bit) "I am Washing The Cat" sort of thing. If you don't live in the moment its all happening you MISS IT (regrets would be life is what occurred when thinking of other things past/future). It has to do with BEING IN AWARENESS; one of the principles of the Qabala (by the way I have at least 9 more misspellings of this word). Oh and that other thing; I did not appreciate being the main character of Jim Carrey's in "The Truman Show". You might have let me know you were the Ed Harris character; "God" as the director of this television world. I thought it was just a major motion picture MOVIE (found out otherwise was REAL). Yet to be paid by the way; sheckles no, diamonds ok.

originally posted by: Joecroft

If you have any ideas just let me know, either here, or via u2u if you prefer…

Snake and a keyhole. Excuse me, but had this been a common dream it would be one of the oldest suitcase sex symbols, and since there is a door involved, there is a desire beyond an obstacle, something is locking you out, but it doesn't quench the desire. OR. The sex is merely a door-opener, a strategic means to get something even more desirable, beyond the door. However, this is not an unconscious dream but a waking vision, I suspect something a bit more profound, something intellectual, something conscious.

Firstly, before I start off, ask yourself, how do you normally feel about snakes? What do you think they represent? If you were to use a snake as a symbol in the conscious world, what would it be? And if you saw one, how would you react? And in this vision, is the serpent your instrument or is it something outside your control? Is it conscious of you? Threatening? Inviting? And most importantly, in which situations do you see this vision?

Well, I'll try anyway, but in your reply, please consider the questions I asked above, and I can give another opinion, since this is basically you talking to yourself on a semi-unconscious level, trying to tell you something.

Personally, if I had this vision, I'd say the serpent represents written knowledge needed to unlock the Truth or rather, the mystery of the Word and the Son of Man. Jesus says "I am the door", he is a gateway, things change when you pass through the doorway, IF you have loved your enemy and can pass through. And the Gospel it is written in, is a long serpent of letters, syllables, words, sentences and paragraphs, chapters and verses, winding back and forth, tirelessly chasing the Light of understanding, moving from the top of the page and down, then up again, then down, down, to the end of the book.

Serpents are books. Written knowledge. This is why the serpent changes direction upon the revelation of the Word of God which the serpent desires and wants to devour. But after the serpent passes through the Doorway to unravel or devour and become the Revelation of the Word of God, writing direction change, from Hebrew to Greek. OT Hebrew from right to left into NT Greek from left to right.

Serpents aren't evil, deception and bias is, and the Truth involved is worth waging wars for apparently, the despots and the tyrants all desire the power over the Word of God, but eventually they will all bite the dust as fallen serpents because of their violence and deceit. However, all the angels of God are all fiery serpents. Even Jesus likened himself with such a fiery serpent, saying «as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up» and he said, «be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.» The staff of Aaron the priest was a serpent.

Hope this helped. But please feed me some more from the questions I asked you to consider in the beginning of this post. There might be something more. Something important...

originally posted by: Joecroft

Joecroft: It’s just a shame your not a Woman, you’d be my perfect date lol

Utnapisjtim: I could put on a skirt and some make-up?

Joecroft: LOL. On second thoughts….Not tonight Josephine, I’m studying Torah…

Well, I was thinking something more along the lines of:

Well, I'm not William Wallace obviously, I'm not eight feet tall for God's sake. But with tendencies like the ones you displayed, I figured you could need some protection It's a dog eat dog world out there....

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Firstly, before I start off, ask yourself, how do you normally feel about snakes? What do you think they represent? If you were to use a snake as a symbol in the conscious world, what would it be? And if you saw one, how would you react? And in this vision, is the serpent your instrument or is it something outside your control? Is it conscious of you? Threatening? Inviting? And most importantly, in which situations do you see this vision?

To be honest, I’m not too keen on the snakes, as animals go (but I was not afraid in the vision etc…) but I am aware that the serpent tends to represent the lower aspects, of our own nature. The serpent either rises up the tree of Life, which helps us connect higher to God, or otherwise remains in the lower i.e. routed in Malkut.

I think the snake was outside of my control, but yet I didn’t feel threatened by it. Also, I can’t stress enough how important the keyhole aspect was in all this…because at the start of the vision, I am kind of “zoomed in” on the Keyhole shape, and then slowly the snake begins to come through the Keyhole; it then twists it’s head to the my right, (just like the picture) whereby I can see the Keyhole shape clearly, and the snakes head…unfortunately that’s where the vision ends.

Also, I should also point out that since my spiritual journey, to finding God within, I’ve had about 10 waking visions, that all had a similar feel to them.
And each one of those visions has taught me something and helped me in my search, or brought some knowledge etc…although some of the visions, have been more difficult to decipher than others.

If it was just a regular dream, I would have went with the obvious “it’s about sex”, but I really don’t believe it is. I think it’s about knowledge coming in (as you alluded to), which is what the snake dually represents…problem is, I don’t know what knowledge it’s trying to show me…My main focus, right now, is on the Keyhole symbol, and what it truly represents. There is some information out there on the symbol, but so far, I’m not sure what it means.

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Personally, if I had this vision, I'd say the serpent represents written knowledge needed to unlock the Truth or rather, the mystery of the Word and the Son of Man.

Wow, that’s pretty deep insight you have there…especially the Son of Man part. I wish I had kept some kind of journal, as to stuff I was contemplating, prior to the vision. Apart from looking at the books of Revelation from a decoded Gnostic viewpoint, my other main focus of contemplation has been between, whether or not Jesus is the Son of God, or whether we are all the Son of God and the word etc…

The phrase the “Son of Man”, is a huge clue in this regard, because when Jesus speaks that phrase, it’s almost as if he could be talking about just himself, or he could equally be talking about everyone else i.e. all of us etc…

For example that phrase, “the Son of man must be lifted up”, assuming it came originally from Gnostic esoteric thought; could just as easily imply that it is us, that must be lifted up, to reach God etc…Just like how the serpents rises/lifts up, along the Tree of Life, to reach Keter etc…

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Serpents are books. Written knowledge. This is why the serpent changes direction upon the revelation of the Word of God which the serpent desires and wants to devour. But after the serpent passes through the Doorway to unravel or devour and become the Revelation of the Word of God, writing direction change, from Hebrew to Greek. OT Hebrew from right to left into NT Greek from left to right.

Yes, good point. I think the spiral direction is important as well. The snake is coming in from right to left, from it’s perspective. But from my perspective, it’s coming in from left to right…so hmmm not sure which way it should be viewed…But I definitely agree that the serpent represents knowledge; and based on the door aspect, it’s knowledge coming in…

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Serpents aren't evil, deception and bias is, and the Truth involved is worth waging wars for apparently, the despots and the tyrants all desire the power over the Word of God, but eventually they will all bite the dust as fallen serpents because of their violence and deceit. However, all the angels of God are all fiery serpents. Even Jesus likened himself with such a fiery serpent, saying «as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up» and he said, «be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.» The staff of Aaron the priest was a serpent.

Yes, I’ve pretty much moved on from the idea that the Snake is evil etc…I see it now as coded symbolism, whereby it represents the lower aspects of our own ego’s, that are out of alignment with God…

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Hope this helped. But please feed me some more from the questions I asked you to consider in the beginning of this post. There might be something more. Something important...

Thanks for your input…I hope this isn’t too thread derailing; plus I’m seriously considering starting a thread around the Keyhole symbol, to get some input from the knowledgeable ATS crowd out there…


Thanks again…


Peace


- JC

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: Joecroft

Joecroft: It’s just a shame your not a Woman, you’d be my perfect date lol

Utnapisjtim: I could put on a skirt and some make-up?

Joecroft: LOL. On second thoughts….Not tonight Josephine, I’m studying Torah…

Well, I was thinking something more along the lines of:

Well, I'm not William Wallace obviously, I'm not eight feet tall for God's sake. But with tendencies like the ones you displayed, I figured you could need some protection

It's a dog eat dog world out there....

Yes, I really need to control those errr “tendencies” (scratches head lol) thanks for the protection. Never know when I might need it…

Interesting choice of images though, it’s like your insight knows no boundaries lol

You see I was born in Scotland, and have ancestry going back there for hundreds of years…my father (also Scottish) had “Templeman” as one of his first names, and was a member of the Masons…unfortunately I didn’t join up, and since his passing, have been trying to piece together truths, on all things esoteric and Biblical etc…


- JC

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
Not the having to BE Peter Sellars in "Being There" more of figuring out that multitasking is not a good thing as will not be recorded in the brain pan.

Have you seen the movie…Do you remember the part about the Stone Mason, named Joe, coming to do some work, on the Arch!!!???

Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
You have to BE THERE in your existence (or participate a little bit) "I am Washing The Cat" sort of thing.

So Schrodinger, should just open up that contraption, and wash his cat, dead or alive…?

Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
If you don't live in the moment its all happening you MISS IT (regrets would be life is what occurred when thinking of other things past/future). It has to do with BEING IN AWARENESS; one of the principles of the Qabala (by the way I have at least 9 more misspellings of this word).

I’ve decided to stick with the “Kabbala” spelling version…it just feels more right than the others…feels more cohesive and symmetrical, than the rest…I know, crazy right lol

Speaking of the Kabbala, just how long have you been a student, and what do you think of those books suggestions by the OP, and the ones I posted…I know you’ve already given me a book recommendation, via u2u, but what else in terms of literature have you studied in this field etc…?…you appear to have some very different views on this topic than most…


- JC

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I don't agree to the 'free or self will' ideology;

you having the freewill to agree, or not agree, is part of free will. You don't agree with something that you yourself are showing you have.

we incarnated with a contract to improve our souls advantage in progressing back to the Source

we already come from Source. That's backwards philosophy, like saying we have to go through some insane prison sentence without having been found guilty of anything, to learn some "prison lessons", when we were already whole and complete prior to entering it.

(myself would find existing in nothingness with 'god' as my No Thing companion FOR ETERNITY the extreme/supremity of hellish experiences)

That's your assumption because you forgot how great home is, and how much this earth sucks. Like I said, no one who experiences Enlightenment and Union with Source, willfully lets go of that to play the dead individuality game on a realm of dead ends.

Finger pointing is accusatory and I would be the first one to shake or poke that appendage at 'God' in frustration.

You're pointing the wrong way then, Source isn't the One to have created your dilemma and this prison planet.

What are the choices, join 'God' in No Thingness or be on earth confused/frustrated as to the point of the experiment (therein lies the question). You either have no interest and unknowingly stay blind trapped in ignorance; or go on a potentially useless quest that could take you years. Your understanding is that to persue eventual dead end paths are wasteful. I say go for it (how else will you ever know) because they will end themselves as necessary and you take another avenue of opportunity/course of study.

you follow the blueprints to Enlightenment and freedom, because they are repeteably reproducable if followed correctly, and lead to transcendence, detachment, wholeness, Union, and a bunch of other things that other people who don't have Enlightenment, themselves don't have. WHich results in them trying to figure it all out via assumptions.

Forced? they volunteered and are in ignorance is all; not exactly lying to you but entirely mistaken.

SO people who remember being forced against they're own will, your going to tell them that they weren't? That's a joke? That's like me telling you that your not breathing air, you're mistaken.

You choose to be born in strife because you are in a hurry to balance out that Karma wheel (which also is a huge misunderstanding as it doesn't EXIST EITHER).

make up your mind. karma or no karma. Either way if it exists, it can be transcended

I am tired of being treated like a child by my Creator BECAUSE I AM IT's own expression and it continues to fail throughout human history to TRUST me.

Sounds like you're confusing the demiurge, with The Source. 2 different things

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

VHB:

Not the having to BE Peter Sellars in "Being There" more of figuring out that multitasking is not a good thing as will not be recorded in the brain pan.

JC: Have you seen the movie…Do you remember the part about the Stone Mason, named Joe, coming to do some work, on the Arch!!!???

I have seen the movie and yes; I really like to reference the obscure that seems meaningful to the occasion (cant remember if he was zeroing in on the 'keystone'.

VHB:
You have to BE THERE in your existence (or participate a little bit) "I am Washing The Cat" sort of thing.

JC: So Schrodinger, should just open up that contraption, and wash his cat, dead or alive…?

Depends upon if the cat remained in that place/existence or was ever there; may have imagined the whole experiment in a dream.

VHB:

If you don't live in the moment its all happening you MISS IT (regrets would be life is what occurred when thinking of other things past/future). It has to do with BEING IN AWARENESS; one of the principles of the Qabala (by the way I have at least 9 more misspellings of this word).

JC: I’ve decided to stick with the “Kabbala” spelling version…it just feels more right than the others…feels more cohesive and symmetrical, than the rest…I know, crazy right lol;
Speaking of the Kabbala, just how long have you been a student, and what do you think of those books suggestions by the OP, and the ones I posted…I know you’ve already given me a book recommendation, via u2u, but what else in terms of literature have you studied in this field etc…?…you appear to have some very different views on this topic than most.

There is no correct/incorrect spelling of that word actually (not so crazy). This discipline, many years but not focused entirely upon as the only one. They all mesh and make sense of each other, if not there is no cohesion or that to balance the whole. Enlightenment comes from seeing the connections. At times one makes better sense; it depends upon what you are experiencing in that moment of your life path. None are right and none are wrong. What else in terms of literature have I studied; to name a few: Gnostic texts (Nag Hammadi, Freemasonry), the ancients (Hermes, Pythagorus as example); Herodotus, Plato (very recent), Socrates; Sumerian, Maya, Eastern thought; heavy on (Hinduism/Buddhist is there any other) direct conscious experience with the 5th and 6th dimensions. You see what is blatantly missing here; and I make no apology.

originally posted by: dominicus
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

VHB: I don't agree to the 'free or self will' ideology.

dominicus: you having the freewill to agree, or not agree, is part of free will. You don't agree with something that you yourself are showing you have.

Thinking I have free will in this moment (deceptive) makes no difference as to this entire life's path outcome. I knew what it would be before incarnating (I just forgot the rules of engagement as is per contract).

VHB:
we incarnated with a contract to improve our souls advantage in progressing back to the Source.

dominicus: we already come from Source. That's backwards philosophy, like saying we have to go through some insane prison sentence without having been found guilty of anything, to learn some "prison lessons", when we were already whole and complete prior to entering it.

Yes absolute insanity, ridiculous as we come from the source yet have to game play to find our way back. However, if you were "AUO" and enlisted mankind (its creation) to as itself find its way home, would you not call this creator SELFISH (only wanting of the knowledge of itself). I argue with it all of the time. Its answer to me "you are God on earth" so I suffer right along experiencing your prison sentence.

VHB: (myself would find existing in nothingness with 'god' as my No Thing companion FOR ETERNITY the extreme/supremity of hellish experiences)

D: That's your assumption because you forgot how great home is, and how much this earth sucks. Like I said, no one who experiences Enlightenment and Union with Source, willfully lets go of that to play the dead individuality game on a realm of dead ends.

I know how great 'home' is. That is why it takes a truly courageous soul/spirit to volunteer for this Dantes Enferno duty.

VHB: Finger pointing is accusatory and I would be the first one to shake or poke that appendage at 'God' in frustration.

D: You're pointing the wrong way then, Source isn't the One to have created your dilemma and this prison planet.

Oh yes I did as a God particle divided from (I take if not equal blame at least recognize its genius/errors).

VHB:
What are the choices, join 'God' in No Thingness or be on earth confused/frustrated as to the point of the experiment (therein lies the question). You either have no interest and unknowingly stay blind trapped in ignorance; or go on a potentially useless quest that could take you years. Your understanding is that to persue eventual dead end paths are wasteful. I say go for it (how else will you ever know) because they will end themselves as necessary and you take another avenue of opportunity/course of study.

D: you follow the blueprints to Enlightenment and freedom, because they are repeteably reproducable if followed correctly, and lead to transcendence, detachment, wholeness, Union, and a bunch of other things that other people who don't have Enlightenment, themselves don't have. WHich results in them trying to figure it all out via assumptions.

There are no blueprints to salvation (this you are referring to). Enlightenment has nothing to do with material freedoms. I'm not a fan of transcendence through total detachment (Buddhists). I suppose to try any avenue of belief system for some is the only alternative; did not find an adequate answer here, try the next one that presents. It is not as if this life is the only one they have (material maybe) they have all of Eternity to find the answers.

D: SO people who remember being forced against they're own will, your going to tell them that they weren't? That's a joke? That's like me telling you that your not breathing air, you're mistaken.

I am allowed to be MISTAKEN; I might even choose to BE SO by you.

VHB: You choose to be born in strife because you are in a hurry to balance out that Karma wheel (which also is a huge misunderstanding as it doesn't EXIST EITHER).

D: make up your mind. karma or no karma. Either way if it exists, it can be transcended.

Ok, I choose NO KARMA (do not want it in my wheelhouse) to have to even consider as another boomerang banana peel slip up (cartoon style as always).

VHB: I am tired of being treated like a child by my Creator BECAUSE I AM IT's own expression and it continues to fail throughout human history to TRUST me.

D: Sounds like you're confusing the demiurge, with The Source. 2 different things

Are you saying I'm battling on two fronts, one with my mind and the other demiurge/source? What is your definition of the source? I see them the same. What you call 'the source' is not "AUO" by any stretch.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Thinking I have free will in this moment (deceptive) makes no difference as to this entire life's path outcome. I knew what it would be before incarnating (I just forgot the rules of engagement as is per contract).

rules of engagement can be transcended. I too, remember the purpose of this incarnation, and have chosen to dismiss and revoke all agreements and break free from the chains of illusion and this realm and uprooting any karmic seeds and reclaiming independence in Union.

Yes absolute insanity, ridiculous as we come from the source yet have to game play to find our way back. However, if you were "AUO" and enlisted mankind (its creation) to as itself find its way home, would you not call this creator SELFISH (only wanting of the knowledge of itself). I argue with it all of the time. Its answer to me "you are God on earth" so I suffer right along experiencing your prison sentence.

Source, and access to, is already here, within you as well, and all around. There were other things at play to make incarnation and lower realms like this earth exist.

There are no blueprints to salvation (this you are referring to). Enlightenment has nothing to do with material freedoms. I'm not a fan of transcendence through total detachment (Buddhists). I suppose to try any avenue of belief system for some is the only alternative; did not find an adequate answer here, try the next one that presents. It is not as if this life is the only one they have (material maybe) they have all of Eternity to find the answers.

There is an Absolute that can be reached, where there are no more questions, no more seeking, all is done. I do advocate total detachment, because that can lead to finding ABsolute Truth, whereas attachments and its seeds are the shackles that keep souls recycling here.

Ok, I choose NO KARMA (do not want it in my wheelhouse) to have to even consider as another boomerang banana peel slip up (cartoon style as always).

There are blueprints for that too. Detachment is another one. Finding the source of Thought and uprooting the taproot is another. The Blueprints are there, but if they are only half assedly speculated on, and taken all the way, then your mileage may vary.

Are you saying I'm battling on two fronts, one with my mind and the other demiurge/source? What is your definition of the source? I am fairly certain I know that being as well as my own Father.

Yes, the ego/mind, is the demiurge's virus, Operating System, to keep you in check here and to keep you coming back over and over again. You won't win by thinking that what you think is right. Only by seeing that this mind isn't you and no longer buying into it, will the house of cards and karma all fall

a reply to: Joecroft

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the keyhole, I'd rather focus on the door and why a serpent is coming into your enclosure without opening the door first. Perhaps you should simply look for a gas or water leak in your home or something. But you asked for an interpretation of the vision you had and how you said it occurred while you were studying the Apocalypse. Since I don't know much about Gnosticism or the Essene (no trace of any Christian writings were found at Qumran), I can't give you anything from their view, I interpreted your vision using the symbology of the Apocalypse and how I understand the different aspects of your vision from the context of Revelation. Which by no means is Gnostic or, even more absurd, Essene. The Apocalypse of John the Scribe is a classical Jewish messianic midrashic apocalypse, much like Daniel and the Ezra apocryphon.

There's always a bigger cat, Schrödinger or not. Washing or for that matter, killing cats, is not a pleasant experience and something better left for veterinarians, and joking about it is rather dull. The euphemisms and internalised language at play here is at best cheap. Intelligent perhaps, but quite badly delivered.

To get back to thread topic, here's what the Serpent in the Tree looks like:


ETA: Not unlike the logo of the Church of Robotology in Futurama...

originally posted by: dominicus
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

VHB:
Thinking I have free will in this moment (deceptive) makes no difference as to this entire life's path outcome. I knew what it would be before incarnating (I just forgot the rules of engagement as is per contract).

dominicus: rules of engagement can be transcended. I too, remember the purpose of this incarnation, and have chosen to dismiss and revoke all agreements and break free from the chains of illusion and this realm and uprooting any karmic seeds and reclaiming independence in Union.

I think breaking the rules is mandatory; so in so doing causes the negative binding archetypes to fail/crumble.

VHB:
Yes absolute insanity, ridiculous as we come from the source yet have to game play to find our way back. However, if you were "AUO" and enlisted mankind (its creation) to as itself find its way home, would you not call this creator SELFISH (only wanting of the knowledge of itself). I argue with it all of the time. Its answer to me "you are God on earth" so I suffer right along experiencing your prison sentence.

dominicus: Source, and access to, is already here, within you as well, and all around. There were other things at play to make incarnation and lower realms like this earth exist.

You have a problem with others way of seeking this knowledge (if I understand you correctly). Too much time spent on one discipline when all hold the keys (no promise that this was to be an easy quest).

VHB:
There are no blueprints to salvation (this you are referring to). Enlightenment has nothing to do with material freedoms. I'm not a fan of transcendence through total detachment (Buddhists). I suppose to try any avenue of belief system for some is the only alternative; did not find an adequate answer here, try the next one that presents. It is not as if this life is the only one they have (material maybe) they have all of Eternity to find the answers.

dominicus: There is an Absolute that can be reached, where there are no more questions, no more seeking, all is done. I do advocate total detachment, because that can lead to finding ABsolute Truth, whereas attachments and its seeds are the shackles that keep souls recycling here.

You can observe this from your perspective; but has no value to another's viewpoint; all are valid equally. Total detachment for me means this: Live in the moment in total awareness/perception of every action including those interactions with others; disregarding ones past experiences or possible future event outcomes.

VHB:
Ok, I choose NO KARMA (do not want it in my wheelhouse) to have to even consider as another boomerang banana peel slip up (cartoon style as always).

dominicus: There are blueprints for that too. Detachment is another one. Finding the source of Thought and uprooting the taproot is another. The Blueprints are there, but if they are only half assedly speculated on, and taken all the way, then your mileage may vary.

Anticipating in that moment 'something may occur' is not future or past speculation; its just being in awareness of at that instance of potential (name to own HERE: your personalized version of Damocles sword).

VHB:
Are you saying I'm battling on two fronts, one with my mind and the other demiurge/source? What is your definition of the source? I am fairly certain I know that being as well as my own Father.

dominicus:
Yes, the ego/mind, is the demiurge's virus, Operating System, to keep you in check here and to keep you coming back over and over again. You won't win by thinking that what you think is right. Only by seeing that this mind isn't you and no longer buying into it, will the house of cards and karma all fall

The ego is very inventive (gone far beyond the "this is how the body must stay alive" first instruction). There is no win if Ego is even remotely the driver; its corrupt. I agree with your last sentence; cannot better be put, and just for fun; what calls itself "Source Entity" or "The Source" as I understand it; and machinations (not to serve the human at all); is an egotistical blowhard. This not AUO but Source for some reason (as if Metatron decided to usurp) thinks it is not being observed (ultimate irony).

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Joecroft

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the keyhole, I'd rather focus on the door and why a serpent is coming into your enclosure without opening the door first. Perhaps you should simply look for a gas or water leak in your home or something. But you asked for an interpretation of the vision you had and how you said it occurred while you were studying the Apocalypse. Since I don't know much about Gnosticism or the Essene (no trace of any Christian writings were found at Qumran), I can't give you anything from their view, I interpreted your vision using the symbology of the Apocalypse and how I understand the different aspects of your vision from the context of Revelation. Which by no means is Gnostic or, even more absurd, Essene. The Apocalypse of John the Scribe is a classical Jewish messianic midrashic apocalypse, much like Daniel and the Ezra apocryphon.

The Essenes were not Christians (so no writings left behind) long gone in 72AD when raided in Qumran by the Romans; and neither was Jesus, (likewise NOT a Christian) they both were of the Egyptian Gnostic awareness (mystery school). Id pay a lot of attention to the 'keyhole' symbol (actual barricade/door that did not need breaching).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
I have seen the movie and yes; I really like to reference the obscure that seems meaningful to the occasion (cant remember if he was zeroing in on the 'keystone'.

The movie mentions a stone Mason named Joe, who came to do some repairs on a wall…and then further along in the conversation, Chance Gardener (aka Peter Sellers) walks passed a bricked up Arch way, and states, “that’s where Joe fixed the wall!!!”

When I was researching the keystone, I found a youtube vid talking about Masonic symbology in movies, and it mentioned “Being there”…So I decided to watch it again…and there it was; that tiny little mention of the Arch, which I hadn’t noticed, first time around…totally freaky…

Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
Depends upon if the cat remained in that place/existence or was ever there; may have imagined the whole experiment in a dream.

They did that with a show by the name “Dallas” apparently; people were VERY UPSET…lol

Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
This discipline, many years but not focused entirely upon as the only one.
They all mesh and make sense of each other, if not there is no cohesion or that to balance the whole. Enlightenment comes from seeing the connections.
At times one makes better sense; it depends upon what you are experiencing in that moment of your life path. None are right and none are wrong.

Yes, it’s good not too focus to heavily in one area, all of the time, things can begin to stagnate, if you don’t mix things up a little. The connections do lead to enlightenment, as do the non-connections. Those non-connecting aspects which just don’t seem to gel, can help lead you away from that area/perspective; if one is honest with oneself, that is. Then you can reformulate and re-assess and move into a different direction. So yeah, even the so-called wrong paths, can help lead you into the right ones.

Originally posted by a reply to Vethumanbeing
What else in terms of literature have I studied. Gnostic texts (Nag Hammadi, Freemasonry), the ancients (Hermes, Pythagorus as example); Herodotus, Plato (very recent), Socrates; Sumerian, Maya, Eastern thought; heavy on (Hinduism/Buddhist is there any other) direct experience with the 5th and 6th dimensions.

You see what is blatantly missing here; and I make no apology.

No apologies necessary; what ever you’ve missed, you just haven’t gotten around to it yet…

Are you using the kabbalic “Tree of life”, to reach those 5th and 6th dimensions…you mentioned a while back, that you go out of body occasionally; what techniques do you use…


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

VHB
I have seen the movie and yes; I really like to reference the obscure that seems meaningful to the occasion (cant remember if he was zeroing in on the 'keystone).

Joecroft: The movie mentions a stone Mason named Joe, who came to do some repairs on a wall…and then further along in the conversation, Chance Gardener (aka Peter Sellers) walks passed a bricked up Arch way, and states, “that’s where Joe fixed the wall!!!”
When I was researching the keystone, I found a youtube vid talking about Masonic symbology in movies, and it mentioned “Being there”…So I decided to watch it again…and there it was; that tiny little mention of the Arch, which I hadn’t noticed, first time around…totally freaky…

D'aath tells you knowledge is painful; be ready for it, as you will stand naked before it totally exposed in judgment regarding your human experiences. Bricked up archway; so a path was definitely closed to curious onlookers/insignificant Peeping Toms.

VHB:
Depends upon if the cat remained in that place/existence or was ever there; may have imagined the whole experiment in a dream.

Joecroft: They did that with a show by the name “Dallas” apparently; people were VERY UPSET…lol

The cancelation of the "Human Experiment" would be just as devastating I imagine. Dallas served a purpose revenue wise and once 'profitability' hits its zenith and begins a decline so goes the series; as will possibly everything you know or has ever been; canceled, POOF.

VHB: This discipline, many years but not focused entirely upon as the only one.
They all mesh and make sense of each other, if not there is no cohesion or that to balance the whole. Enlightenment comes from seeing the connections. At times one makes better sense; it depends upon what you are experiencing in that moment of your life path. None are right and none are wrong.

Joecroft: Yes, it’s good not too focus to heavily in one area, all of the time, things can begin to stagnate, if you don’t mix things up a little. The connections do lead to enlightenment, as do the non-connections. Those non-connecting aspects which just don’t seem to gel, can help lead you away from that area/perspective; if one is honest with oneself, that is. Then you can reformulate and re-assess and move into a different direction. So yeah, even the so-called wrong paths, can help lead you into the right ones.

Sure. They rely upon each other; "hey remember that thing you read 2 years ago applies to what you are reading now".

VHB:
What else in terms of literature have I studied. Gnostic texts (Nag Hammadi, Freemasonry), the ancients (Hermes, Pythagorus as example); Herodotus, Plato (very recent), Socrates; Sumerian, Maya, Eastern thought; heavy on (Hinduism/Buddhist is there any other) direct experience with the 5th and 6th dimensions. You see what is blatantly missing here; and I make no apology.

Joecroft: No apologies necessary; what ever you’ve missed, you just haven’t gotten around to it yet…
Are you using the kabbalic “Tree of life”, to reach those 5th and 6th dimensions…you mentioned a while back, that you go out of body occasionally; what techniques do you use.

Well, I have; just not focused upon right now and (but is the basis for) my interest in the Nag Hammadi Gnostic texts. I am using Qabalistic visualization techniques. I do experience OOBE's but not of a result of studying the Qabala, it enhances in understanding what is occuring. Its sort of a training time to tell dreaming from being in an actual 4D lighter body experiencing what actually lies beyond this 3D experience. I know I am eternal and why; and how this works with or without a material body. Pathfinding within the Qabala is a method to get back to the creator "ABSOLUTE UNBOUNDED ONENESS" (Kether/crown) step by step every dimension/ awareness as you travel up tree you loose body mass and can travel within the different dimensions. I've been cheating by taking shortcuts (obvious loopholes to be taken advantage of).

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
I wouldn't pay too much attention to the keyhole, I'd rather focus on the door and why a serpent is coming into your enclosure without opening the door first.

I’m pretty much focused on both…, have been since I had the vision…
I’m not placing one element, as more important than the other, not right now anyway…plus there’s a deep mystery behind that symbol (Keyhole)…as you’ll find out, if you ever try to research it…

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Perhaps you should simply look for a gas or water leak in your home or something.

I’m not following you here…not sure what you mean by that…?

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
But you asked for an interpretation of the vision you had and how you said it occurred while you were studying the Apocalypse. Since I don't know much about Gnosticism or the Essene (no trace of any Christian writings were found at Qumran), I can't give you anything from their view,
I interpreted your vision using the symbology of the Apocalypse and how I understand the different aspects of your vision from the context of Revelation.

Yes, I fully appreciate the fact, that you didn’t have knowledge in those areas, I wasn’t expecting you to have; But I am thankful for you giving me your opinion on it, all the same…

Originally posted by a reply to Utnapisjtim
Which by no means is Gnostic or, even more absurd, Essene. The Apocalypse of John the Scribe is a classical Jewish messianic midrashic apocalypse, much like Daniel and the Ezra apocryphon.

I never said the Apocalypse of John was a Gnostic or Essene text. I only said that I was studying it, from a Gnostic decoded perspective, because I have material which suggests that it contains some Gnostic elements. A simple example being, that some Christian Gnostics believed Jesus was the Messiah, just like many other Jewish sects did, back in that time period.


- JC