Ukraine in Turmoil. Fears of East/West Schism. Russia Talking to East UA. Updates!

daaskapital
Russia will not stand for this.....

Apparently, the recently released Yulia Tymoshenko will show her support for Ukraine to join NATO, saying that it would be 'uncomfortable' for Ukraine to remain outside any one security apparatus. She says that any decisions would have to be made through a referendum though.

She also supports closer ties between Ukraine and the EU.

edit on 22-2-2014 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)

Last I checked Ukraine was sovereign and could make its own choices.

Secondly, Ukraine is not Georgia and has more than 3 tanks.

Xcathdra

daaskapital
Russia will not stand for this.....

Apparently, the recently released Yulia Tymoshenko will show her support for Ukraine to join NATO, saying that it would be 'uncomfortable' for Ukraine to remain outside any one security apparatus. She says that any decisions would have to be made through a referendum though.

She also supports closer ties between Ukraine and the EU.

edit on 22-2-2014 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)

Last I checked Ukraine was sovereign and could make its own choices.

Secondly, Ukraine is not Georgia and has more than 3 tanks.

Indeed. You are correct.

However, we know that Russia had government officials and politicians in East Ukraine. We also know that Russia does not like NATO. I wouldn't be surprised to see Russia make a stand for East Ukraine...

I guess we'll see what happens.

reply to post by daaskapital


I think some people are forgetting the fact that these nations, Ukraine, Georgia, etc, were once a part of the Soviet Union. I doubt the people of those countries are eager to run back into that type of embrace with Russia.

I think that one element alone, that Russia seems to be ignoring, is going to be key.

As for language / politicians - There are a lot of Chinese nationals / Chinese speaking people in the Siberian region. Would it be acceptable of china to essentially annex that territory by claiming the natives are Chinese speaking / Chinese politicians? If that is not acceptable to Russia, then it wont be acceptable to Ukraine.

The US and EU's support for this uprising maybe payback for Syria.Not to mention the continued encirclement of Russia,I wonder how the msm will pretend to be shocked when the puppet that has been installed in Kiev suddenly agrees to give the US access to their military bases and the mysterious appearance of oil companies looking for routes into the Caspian.

Xcathdra
reply to post by daaskapital

 

I think some people are forgetting the fact that these nations, Ukraine, Georgia, etc, were once a part of the Soviet Union. I doubt the people of those countries are eager to run back into that type of embrace with Russia.

I think that one element alone, that Russia seems to be ignoring, is going to be key.

As for language / politicians - There are a lot of Chinese nationals / Chinese speaking people in the Siberian region. Would it be acceptable of china to essentially annex that territory by claiming the natives are Chinese speaking / Chinese politicians? If that is not acceptable to Russia, then it wont be acceptable to Ukraine.

The thing is, East Ukraine supports Russia, so it wouldn't be too far-fetched for Russia to step in on their behalf. Russia has officials over in East Ukraine, talking about the situation. They are also watching closely on the developments. I don't think Russia will take lightly to losing their fleet in the Black Sea. I also do not think they would like Ukraine (at least in it's complete form) joining NATO...

It will be interesting to see how Russia reacts, as any wrong move now could be disastrous for the region...

interesting that my wife JUST now had a fb update on the millions protesting there.. she was like "Ukraine? protesting? " I was like yea..

been happening for like 2-3 weeks.. kudos ATS.. kudos!

Ukrainian parliament appoints speaker as acting president

The opposition-controlled Ukrainian parliament has voted to appoint its freshly-elected Speaker Aleksandr Turchinov as acting president. MPs supporting the move arguing that President Yanukovich has de facto resigned his office.

Viktor Yanukovich previously rejected opposition calls to voluntarily step down, which would have saved the parliament taking constitutional impeachment procedures. But parliament, which sees itself as the only legitimate body in Ukraine, decided to replace the president without an impeachment.

rt.com...

reply to post by daaskapital
no word of the resignation, muttering to stop bloodshed

Xcathdra

daaskapital
Russia will not stand for this.....

Apparently, the recently released Yulia Tymoshenko will show her support for Ukraine to join NATO, saying that it would be 'uncomfortable' for Ukraine to remain outside any one security apparatus. She says that any decisions would have to be made through a referendum though.

She also supports closer ties between Ukraine and the EU.

edit on 22-2-2014 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)

Last I checked Ukraine was sovereign and could make its own choices.

Secondly, Ukraine is not Georgia and has more than 3 tanks.

so you think ukraine is making its own choices? good luck with that line of thought.

those are EU's choices, not theirs. choices backed by a bunch of armed thugs that are trying to take over the country. they won't take over the eastern part that easily though.

and they certainly won't take over crimea.

with a single person acting as a president, prime minister and chairman of parliament, and with tymoshenko waiting for the elections and in the meantime calling for revenge on those removed from power by force, counting on russia doing nothing 'just because it would cause a much bigger mess' is silly.

russia won't give up crimea - they've already said that - even if it'll mean war. i don't think they'll give up the eastern part of ukraine either, they certainly don't want EU and NATO in that region. as a matter of fact, i don't think they'll give up any part of ukraine at all, because of the oil pipelines.

just wait. they gave EU a chance - or so it may be perceived later by those not fully aware of the situation, because it's already too late for EU to tell those thugs they've backed up to calm down - and are waiting for the end of olympics.

after that, well. it'll be disgusting to see the propaganda being spilled in the west to portray russia as the agressor and those terrorists and criminals as innocent peaceful protesters. it won't end up well.

Innocent and honest politician would not trying to flee

jedi_hamster

Xcathdra

daaskapital
Russia will not stand for this.....

Apparently, the recently released Yulia Tymoshenko will show her support for Ukraine to join NATO, saying that it would be 'uncomfortable' for Ukraine to remain outside any one security apparatus. She says that any decisions would have to be made through a referendum though.

She also supports closer ties between Ukraine and the EU.

edit on 22-2-2014 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)

Last I checked Ukraine was sovereign and could make its own choices.

Secondly, Ukraine is not Georgia and has more than 3 tanks.

so you think ukraine is making its own choices? good luck with that line of thought.

I'm glad you understand that it is Russia who is calling the shots.

those are EU's choices, not theirs. choices backed by a bunch of armed thugs that are trying to take over the country. they won't take over the eastern part that easily though.

The armed thugs are on the side of the government as well. The eastern part will soon be assimilated to Russia, and will no longer make pretense to being Ukraine.

and they certainly won't take over crimea.

Correct. The backroom deal is that Russia will get Sebastapol and Ukraine will keep Odessa.

with a single person acting as a president, prime minister and chairman of parliament, and with tymoshenko waiting for the elections and in the meantime calling for revenge on those removed from power by force, counting on russia doing nothing 'just because it would cause a much bigger mess' is silly.

Asking for legal proceedings against criminals is not revenge. Russia will do nothing if it thinks it can get its own way.

russia won't give up crimea - they've already said that - even if it'll mean war. i don't think they'll give up the eastern part of ukraine either, they certainly don't want EU and NATO in that region. as a matter of fact, i don't think they'll give up any part of ukraine at all, because of the oil pipelines.

Oil pipelines can be destroyed. You wouldn't want that, now would you?

just wait. they gave EU a chance - or so it may be perceived later by those not fully aware of the situation, because it's already too late for EU to tell those thugs they've backed up to calm down - and are waiting for the end of olympics.

Once again, it is the traitors who are selling Ukraine out to Russia who are the thugs.

after that, well. it'll be disgusting to see the propaganda being spilled in the west to portray russia as the agressor and those terrorists and criminals as innocent peaceful protesters. it won't end up well.

Why is Russia even meddling in Ukraine? Isn't Ukraine an independent nation? If Putin sends in tanks, he will be the aggressor. Fortunately, Putin is a spineless wimp.

reply to post by xavi1000


oh come on, stop with that propaganda crap. who says he's innocent? it's about lesser evil.

on what authority was tymoshenko released?
on what authority did the ukrainian parliament take over yanukovych's property?
was there any process? was there a judge?

next step they're willing to do is to delegalize THEIR opposition. how is that democratic government?

they are a bunch of criminals, backed by the EU and trying to please the EU - the latter one only because they have no other choice. their country is broke and they need EU's cash. russian minister already said that they should go to the IMF for a loan, i'm just not sure if it's a honest advice or rather a 'you've screwed up, you'll have no backing from us anymore' statement. i guess it's the latter.

jedi_hamster
so you think ukraine is making its own choices? good luck with that line of thought.

Could it be possible that just a handful of the 100,000 people protesting in Kiev were not stooges of the EU? Could it be possible that people are not all drones and do genuinely hold opinion and views which drive them to protest?

I really dislike this cretinous view that everything is orchestrated by others and no one has free will.

The current upheavals can trace their origins to independence from the oppressive Soviet Union in 1990 and through the so called Orange Revolution in 2004/5.The Orange Revolution was about corruption and vote rigging.

The transition from peaceful protest to violent protest was a reaction to the (ex) President's attempts to ram a series of repressive policies through the Ukrainian Parliament in January. These policies essentially criminalised protest. People on ATS are forever crying over their civil liberties, so should spare a thought to what was attempted and why the political unrest went from relatively peaceful to violent.

Russia is nervous because it considers Ukraine to be a client state and that the increased influence from the West will change that dependent relationship. However, although this is a key issue, the actual problem in Ukraine has been corruption, (a problem Russia suffers from, too) and the attempts to disrupt and destroy Ukraine's fledging attempts at democracy.

Regards

DJW001

jedi_hamster

Xcathdra

daaskapital
Russia will not stand for this.....

Apparently, the recently released Yulia Tymoshenko will show her support for Ukraine to join NATO, saying that it would be 'uncomfortable' for Ukraine to remain outside any one security apparatus. She says that any decisions would have to be made through a referendum though.

She also supports closer ties between Ukraine and the EU.

edit on 22-2-2014 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)

Last I checked Ukraine was sovereign and could make its own choices.

Secondly, Ukraine is not Georgia and has more than 3 tanks.

so you think ukraine is making its own choices? good luck with that line of thought.

I'm glad you understand that it is Russia who is calling the shots.

those are EU's choices, not theirs. choices backed by a bunch of armed thugs that are trying to take over the country. they won't take over the eastern part that easily though.

The armed thugs are on the side of the government as well. The eastern part will soon be assimilated to Russia, and will no longer make pretense to being Ukraine.

and they certainly won't take over crimea.

Correct. The backroom deal is that Russia will get Sebastapol and Ukraine will keep Odessa.

with a single person acting as a president, prime minister and chairman of parliament, and with tymoshenko waiting for the elections and in the meantime calling for revenge on those removed from power by force, counting on russia doing nothing 'just because it would cause a much bigger mess' is silly.

Asking for legal proceedings against criminals is not revenge. Russia will do nothing if it thinks it can get its own way.

russia won't give up crimea - they've already said that - even if it'll mean war. i don't think they'll give up the eastern part of ukraine either, they certainly don't want EU and NATO in that region. as a matter of fact, i don't think they'll give up any part of ukraine at all, because of the oil pipelines.

Oil pipelines can be destroyed. You wouldn't want that, now would you?

just wait. they gave EU a chance - or so it may be perceived later by those not fully aware of the situation, because it's already too late for EU to tell those thugs they've backed up to calm down - and are waiting for the end of olympics.

Once again, it is the traitors who are selling Ukraine out to Russia who are the thugs.

after that, well. it'll be disgusting to see the propaganda being spilled in the west to portray russia as the agressor and those terrorists and criminals as innocent peaceful protesters. it won't end up well.

Why is Russia even meddling in Ukraine? Isn't Ukraine an independent nation? If Putin sends in tanks, he will be the aggressor. Fortunately, Putin is a spineless wimp.

russia isn't calling the shots. not yet. so far they did nothing, compared to the meddling of EU.

armed thugs on the side of the government - do you mean berkut, using rubber bullets until they were forced to switch ammo because those 'peaceful protesters' started using weapons and molotovs?

backroom deal? care to name your sources?

how about legal proceedings against those that murdered police officers?

noone in their sane mind would destroy the pipelines. not even those thugs in power right now.

speaking about traitors selling out ukraine to russia... you know who you should look at? tymoshenko and the reason why she ended up in jail in the first place.

as far as russian meddling with ukraine, they won't step in unless asked, with the exception of crimea. most ukraine citizens in its eastern part are pro-russian though, and i guess they know perfectly well how siding with EU ends up for poor countries. but of course, for you it'll be russian invasion of ukraine, because ukrainian people asked for russian help to get rid of EU-backed thugs trying to take over their country, right? if anyone's protecting themselves from EU's influence and meddling, then it's wrong, but EU may do many times worse crap behind the scenes and it's ok?

you want those responsible for the deaths of innocent people in ukraine? go to brussels.

reply to post by paraphi


of course it's possible.
the most vocal group though, and the one in power currently at the same time, is the one holding weapons and being a bunch of criminals.

what's the difference then? i'm not saying that all the people of ukraine were fine and didn't want to protest. i'm just saying that those thugs spinned it far out of proportion to stage a coup.

reply to post by daaskapital


After reading an article called "Why a new Ukraine is the Kremlin's worst nightmare" I think its not so much about what caused this or who revolted but what will the results be and how will Putin deal with it.

Putin's lease in life is to reunite Russia to its former greatness with all former Russian countries back in Russia and if he can't do that after making a big deal about it then he is humiliated and he is a scary person to humiliate I would think, this won't end well, especially with Obama injecting his "line crossing" empty threats.

Just my opinion.

Agent_USA_Supporter
For those supporting the peaceful protesters here's another picture of them holding arms i am quite sure they are very peacefully.

This is truly a Dark Day For Ukraine as fascism takes over and while here cheer with it.

edit on 22-2-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

Oh please

Get a grip those people armed themselves for a very good reasons, and that's because these governments will be FORCED of the streets and not HEARD

Are you also one of these fool who believes the same happened In Syria, it's like you're purposely ignoring the fact both these East west clashes on Syria and Ukraine started of as peaceful protests and as in Syria those people was also shot at at the request of Putins Mafia

The Ukrainians crystal are no different than Syrias, Syria is a Sunni majority under a minority rule, not to mention a Russia puppet in the ME, Ukraine is in favour of European and again of course Russia and Putin mafia can't be having that can they,

Russia doesn't care about the voice of the people In Syria and Ukraine, it cares about putins new soviet empire and will flood each country with advanced arms to its sympathisers

It's also no different to those in the United States who still sided with there british motherland ....

Let the games begin but history is on both Syria and Ukraine side and those people will get there wish

TritonTaranis

Agent_USA_Supporter
For those supporting the peaceful protesters here's another picture of them holding arms i am quite sure they are very peacefully.

This is truly a Dark Day For Ukraine as fascism takes over and while here cheer with it.

edit on 22-2-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

Oh please

Get a grip those people armed themselves for a very good reasons, and that's because these governments will be FORCED of the streets and not HEARD

Are you also one of these fool who believes the same happened In Syria, it's like you're purposely ignoring the fact both these East west clashes on Syria and Ukraine started of as peaceful protests and as in Syria those people was also shot at at the request of Putins Mafia

The Ukrainians crystal are no different than Syrias, Syria is a Sunni majority under a minority rule, not to mention a Russia puppet in the ME, Ukraine is in favour of European and again of course Russia and Putin mafia can't be having that can they,

Russia doesn't care about the voice of the people In Syria and Ukraine, it cares about putins new soviet empire and will flood each country with advanced arms to its sympathisers

It's also no different to those in the United States who still sided with there british motherland ....

Let the games begin but history is on both Syria and Ukraine side and those people will get there wish

ukraine in favor of EU? highly doubt that. they just need money, and they're desperate to get it. criminals that took over the country with violence, are probably even blackmailing those in the eastern ukraine - i don't know how otherwise pro-russian so far politicians from that region may suddenly change their stance - so that everyone supports their cause, which is 'get to EU, please brussels and get their money to have something to steal'.

you know why they've armed themselves? so that noone will ask any questions when they remove yanukovytch from the office.

read ukraine's constitution. see with your own eyes how many laws they have broken.

the current EU-sponsored mafia trying to rule ukraine is a bunch of thugs and criminals and their actions are ILLEGAL.
russia knows this, everyone knows this. as such, EU and USA are supporting a coup, not a peaceful, democratic change.

this is all BS and EU will pay for this.

reply to post by jedi_hamster

read ukraine's constitution. see with your own eyes how many laws they have broken.

Why not post a link to an English translation and point out what laws were actually broken?