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Ukraine in Turmoil. Fears of East/West Schism. Russia Talking to East UA. Updates!

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posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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paraphi

Ah, try not to assume that people who have a different view than you have not done the research. The trade agreement was primarily the removal of import/export restrictions and tariffs. Most pundits consider it would have benefitted Ukraine.

Regards


Actually the trade agreement would mean removal of import/export restrictions and tariffs for EU and not Ukraine. Ukraine would have to wait at least a year before they could export to European markets and mostly in the peripheral countries. Ukrainian products are not "acceptable for the EU standards" yet. Result would be:
- same exports to EU
- less exports to Russia
- less imports from Russia
- imports on steroids from EU

With losing Russian market (Russia cannot have a trade agreement just with Ukraine and not all the other countries of EU, so Ukraine would have the same restrictions as everyone else in EU) and high import from EU it would bankrupt and destroy domestic production and bankrupt Ukraine in the matter of months. In few years Ukraine would have been addicted to loans from EU, just like Greece is.




posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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jedi_hamster
if you've done your research, you're perfectly aware of the trading agreement between ukraine and russia and the result that trading agreement with EU would have, right? also, ukraine is basically bankrupt. it doesn't stand a chance confronted with western capitalism. the only side that would benefit from that, would be EU.


Yes, we have touched on your obsession with accusing people who don’t share your opinion as “not having done the research”. It is beginning to get repetitive and possibly verging on being patronising.

You need to remove the anti-EU blinkers and consider the fact that the EU issue in Ukraine is only a part of the cake. The dastardly EU has been involved politically with Ukraine since 1994 when the the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement was signed.

However, I guess that the forthcoming elections will determine whether Ukrainians go East or West, or just stay as they are and play both off against each other. It seems possible that Ukraine will split with the pro-Russian east re-joining their old overlords – if this happens with tanks on the streets, then it will be an admission of defeat by Russia that they have lost the initiative, influence and Ukraine has rejected autocracy.

Question – Do thugs carry sniper rifles and if so many protesters were armed how come very few police died – compared to protesters?

Handy hint – your posts are difficult to read as you do not capitalise. If you did your research you would know that correct grammar uses capital etc, etc… Smile.

Regards



posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by baburak
 


I know it is from a "propaganda website", but please review the details of the EU / Ukraine trade deal.

ec.europa.eu...

The EU has trade deals with many nations. Why is this different? Why do you think Ukraine will end up like Greece? Norway has a trade deal, as does Korea, Mexico, Peru and a host of other nations!

trade.ec.europa.eu...

Regards



posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 04:48 PM
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paraphi.

Question – Do thugs carry sniper rifles and if so many protesters were armed how come very few police died – compared to protesters?

Regards


If you look at this video (which was made a day before police got weapons, you can see how one would shot protesters in order to save it's own life. It would be natural instinct and 99% of us would have done the same if we found our selves in that same situation.



P.S.: If country splits, it would be the Western Ukraine with tanks on the streets and Russian on the new border. Southeastern Ukraine is the one making most of the money in Ukraine and Western Ukraines budget is: about 12% of the money they're producing and the rest is the money that was made in Kievs region and in Southeastern Ukraine.



posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


It is not from a propaganda website and I am not a conspiracy freak as you may think


1. You cannot count Mexico as its main markets are USA and Brasil + other countries in South America. For that same reason you cannot count Peru and Korea.

2. You cannot count Iceland, Norway, Lichenstein because their main trade partners were always countries in the EU.

3. Ukraine is poor country (and tomorrow when markets open, we will see if it's already bankrupt or not) and losing Russia and other countries from the trade union would be catastrophic.

4. Every country that signs the deal with EU has to meet certain standards of the products they want to export and many of the countries had to wait a lot of time, before they could export it's products. But these countries didn't have any deals with the major exporter like Ukraine has with Russia.

5. Most of the products, that would have been exported in Russia will have to be sold on Ukrainian market and that would mean lower price (more products with the same demand). Products from EU will put that final pressure on the price and many of the domestic producers would have a major problem. Reference: EU CAP problems with Emerging Markets in the past. www.iatp.org...

Already poor Ukraine would have to:
- lower its already low minimum wage and pensions and face the crowds again or
- get a loan from EU (the price on the markets is to high for Ukraine) and promise them some reforms

Almost every government chooses the second option. Reforms are really slow, because they cannot risk another revolution. In a year or so they face the same problem again and again. Poor countries cannot survive in the EU.
edit on 23-2-2014 by baburak because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 07:01 PM
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baburak

paraphi.

Question – Do thugs carry sniper rifles and if so many protesters were armed how come very few police died – compared to protesters?

Regards


If you look at this video (which was made a day before police got weapons, you can see how one would shot protesters in order to save it's own life. It would be natural instinct and 99% of us would have done the same if we found our selves in that same situation.


The fact is these peaceful protesters was saying for days in live interviews on MSN that they new the pro East government was going to bully and beat them of the streets and that they would put up a fight to be heard... At the end of the day when there is this many people protesting in a democracy you can't just go to war with the public that's called a dictatorship

This is why the protesters built up barricades, to defend themselves, and low and behold the pro East government did t want to listen to the huge crowds of protesters and sent armed police in... These are the people and they have spoken, there voice should be heard rather than what the bent government In Bed with putins mafia wants to do its there country not those few government official in office waiting for a big payday selling there country out, when thing like this happen to the existent they have in Syria and Ukraine that government has lost the right to govern the people, and let's be honest Ukraine is no different to Syria the majority have been ignored by the minority in power, and in both cases Russia has it's fingers around the throats of the minority in power and the few bent leaders in Kiev


The country does not belong to the government nore the dictators, it belongs to the PEOPLE and that's the bottom line end of convo.. The voice of the people matters and must be heard by every government.. Governments serve the PEOPLE!!!! And if you disagree then go live outside the walls of the civilised world

Let the East break away they'll be a new soviet empire run down s*#thole devoured of life in no time
edit on 23-2-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by TritonTaranis
 


Words are SPOKEN and not beaten out from anyone who thinks differently. And people is not 10.000 people (average of the last two months) in the country of 46.000.000.

Another quote from Obama: "If you don't like the government, go to ELECTION". Election would be in less than 12 months. Instead of elected official they put unelected nazis with guns in parliament. They already said, that Russian language cannot be used (about 20 millions people in Ukraine use it their whole life). Opposition leader Tsag. yesterday took things on the next level. He said that every Russian speaker in the country will get status of NON-CITIZEN and using Russian will be punishable. I guess he never heard of Belgium which has three official languages and that nazism is dead.

Eastern regions will split from Ukraine and the loser will be Western Ukraine. Some regions already asked Russia for help numerous times. Russians will help because of the Russians in the region but then opposition and US will say that Russia invaded Ukraine. The truth is that Maidan attacked Ukraine and Southeastern regions asked for help.

edit on 23-2-2014 by baburak because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by baburak
 


no reason, truth, nor common sense, can be talked into their heads. it's a waste of time.

star for the effort though. they'll see the sad reality when the war will start. hopefully, countries supporting the current regime in ukraine won't be punished most.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 02:50 AM
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From RT:


An arrest warrant for Ukraine’s ex-President Viktor Yanukovich has been issued, said the country’s acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov.

“We have initiated criminal proceedings concerning the massacre of peaceful civilians. Yanukovich along with other officials has been put on the wanted list,” added Avakov.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 04:39 AM
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Good luck arresting Yanuko-bitch when he is surrounded now with Russian sympathisers in the East.

Interesting devlopement also of Russia calling back its Ukrainian ambassador...ominous sign.

Ukraine is the jewel on the NWO Chessboard.

Russia needs/wants it and so does the West.

Its a match made in hell......where always, the people suffer.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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Russia has lashed out at the new regime in Kiev, accusing it of using “dictatorial” and “terrorist” methods to suppress dissent in the country, with a backing from the West which is “acting out of geopolitical self-interest”.

rt.com...



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by MessageforAll
 


Russia has no obvious 'Self Interest' there?

I think East and West like in Syria should stay the hell out of it and let the people decide for themselves.


edit on 24-2-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I agree with you there, but what's happening in Ukraine didn't happen by/for the people to begin with, it is pretty obvious this is just another proxy.

Bot US and EU have much to gain from Ukraine joining the EU. I'm not sure what will come of this, but Russia will not let this one slide. Honestly, Ukraine is between a rock and hard place.

Sadly the US/EU is just as much the bad guy as Russia is.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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MessageforAll
Sadly the US/EU is just as much the bad guy as Russia is.



That's a given but we seem to have a cheering section in some threads advocating war between Russia and the West to 'Retake' the Ukraine which doesn't belong to them. I'm also sure all those people aren't brain washed by Western propaganda. There is a real history going back quite a long time of mistrust and dislike between Russia and Ukrainians.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:04 AM
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I wonder if the protesters realize they volunteered/were manipulated, to being ground zero to WWIII?

There is NO WAY Russia is going to allow the EU to control any part of the Ukraine. That little western piece people think nothing of, is the most important piece of the Ukraine with its boarders on the Black Sea. That is where Russia keeps a fleet with good reason. That is Russia's access to Mediterranean Sea, Red Sea, Atlantic, Arabian, etc.

Not to mention Russia came out and said as much. It said specifically that it will not allow EU or US to control it.

If you have paid attention, Russia has been doing a bang up job at climbing its way on top. Making the US and EU look bad on the way.

Its no wonder why the EU started pulling for power there. That particular piece of land would give Russia quite an advantage.





As for you....

Agent_USA_Supporter

No i wouldn't and couldn't care less the majority of the American public are basically idiots whom wouldnt how to protest or revolt.

No offense and i dont meant to all Americans.


"No offense"??? are you kidding me?? You couldn't be more offensive! Please never speak for "Americans". disgraceful.
edit on 24-2-2014 by mrsdudara because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:07 AM
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MessageforAll
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


I agree with you there, but what's happening in Ukraine didn't happen by/for the people to begin with, it is pretty obvious this is just another proxy.

Bot US and EU have much to gain from Ukraine joining the EU. I'm not sure what will come of this, but Russia will not let this one slide. Honestly, Ukraine is between a rock and hard place.

Sadly the US/EU is just as much the bad guy as Russia is.


You must be joking. The EU considers Ukraine to be another shabby ex-communist fixer-upper. Most Europeans fear that Ukraine will soon be a source of skilled immigrant labor that will work for lower wages. The EU is in no hurry to absorb another failing central European economy. On the other hand, Russia desperately needs Ukraine. No country but the former Soviet satellites have any interest in buying Russian consumer goods. Russia is also so paranoid of invasion that its primary defense has always been "depth." They do not feel safe unless they are surrounded by a lot of non-threatening land. Of course the main thing Russia needs is Sevastopol, it's only year round port. Russian imperialism has made that its primary goal since the days of Catherine the Great. Putin will settle for any compromise that allows him to keep the Crimea. He is going to do to Ukraine what his hero Stalin did to Poland.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by DJW001
 


IF you truly believe Europe doesn't want another shabby low labor force country then you really don't know the Europe we are seeing as Europeans.

It was Europe who proposed Ukraine to join. At this point Europe survives and I use the term survive very loosely here because of those east European country's. Ask Germany lol.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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MessageforAll
reply to post by DJW001
 


IF you truly believe Europe doesn't want another shabby low labor force country then you really don't know the Europe we are seeing as Europeans.

It was Europe who proposed Ukraine to join. At this point Europe survives and I use the term survive very loosely here because of those east European country's. Ask Germany lol.


Europe has not proposed that Ukraine join. The EU proposed removing various trade barriers, not membership. You have been getting your information from bad sources.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:44 AM
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Agent_USA_Supporter
I am quite surprised to see a few people on here supporting an armed coup.

Why? You always see them supporting an armed coup if Obama's name comes up?



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:55 AM
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It's a hard one to read. The fact Medvedev is talking to the press, and the foreign ministry is issuing strongly worded statements, most likely means Russia isn't going to use force to get their way with Ukraine. I would be a LOT more worried if there was silence from Russia.

On the other hand, Putin has been walking all over Obama on the international stage, and the US has just announced major military cuts. It might be a good time for Russia to stamp its authority.



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