Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System, page 71

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 01:54 PM

link

lostgirl

Brotherman
reply to post by lostgirl

The original secret is of little importance, its how it changes and becomes adept within the circle it was exposed to either willingly or not. It is obvious to me that UFO phenomenon DOES in fact manipulate society and its implications manipulate those in power so UFO does affect policy and people. Look at all these UFO New age movements and cults that have been springing up for the better portion of 100 years. Someones getting a message.

Oh I totally agree with that...

I guess I'm just trying to figure out how 'we', as few as we are, could have any effect on any of that (i.e. any effect on the 'manipulators').

Through the manipulators feedback mechanism although I am not privy to what or how exactly that works but it is apparent that there is some form of interaction that begs for this feed back. Vallee believes that through counter intel style operations the manipulators can become manipulated by the feedback.

I don't think that remote viewers, psychics, etc are exactly the people that the manipulators target. Consider most cases of abduction sightings etc effect for the largest majority simple plain everyday kind of people. Why is this? I think I have an idea why but not exactly ready to come out and explain fully what I mean here yet till I can better articulate what it is I want to say. Sometimes I have a difficult time putting what I think into words effectively.

edit on 23-2-2014 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)

lostgirl

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 02:05 PM

link

I mean, I think it would have to be people who have the ability to 'utilize' their consciousness (i.e. remote viewers and such) who could 'input' any 'changes' to the manipulator's feedback loop...

I wonder if that's what Vallee is trying to do now? You know, for the last several years he has been working with IRVA (the "International Remote Viewing Association, I think that's how the initials 'read') and he also worked actively with Ingo Swann for several years...

edit on 23-2-2014 by lostgirl because: (no reason given)

Brotherman

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 02:10 PM

link

reply to post by lostgirl

Im not sure, i will say though that because of the internet the construct is more or less a collective conciousness that can be measured and predicted this is where I would believe that a feedback mechanism may exist along with others.

lostgirl

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 02:20 PM

link

reply to post by Brotherman

So, where did the feedback mechanism exist before the internet?

Brotherman

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 02:22 PM

link

reply to post by lostgirl

Within the words people carried in superstition and myths, like how people would be afraid of the trolls in the forest and then talk about them within their communities until it became a fact that there are trolls in the woods. The phenomenon seems to have the ability to mold itself into the time frame and state of minds of whatever period that it is toying with.

Autograf

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 04:40 PM

link

lostgirl
reply to post by Brotherman

It's probably because, since we haven't been able to fully define Vallee's meaning in "Control System", there hasn't been enough info to use for 'conjecturing' on the topic -

We actually do know precisely what he means. It's defined rigorously. The problem is the words "control" and "system" have individual meanings which cloud the issue.

Here is the type of "control system" he refers to: a system designed to maintain a parameter in the face of other, changing parameters, in order to systematize production goals:

en.wikipedia.org...

As far as how to interact with it: having finished "Confrontations", my take-away from it is that his best idea of how to interact (at the time of writing) was to pursue the analysis of medical effects of UFOs, especially the dangerous phenomena such as Chupa (small flying boxy things which zap people with microwave beams). The demonstrable physicality of those parts of the phenomenon give us something to "chew on", more or less.

He seemed to be hinting that the microwaves themselves also provide a method of interaction, although he didn't go into detail. But one could extrapolate to what might happen if you clothed all the Brazilian hunters in shiny suits that reflect microwaves!

edit on 23-2-2014 by Autograf because: (no reason given)

Bybyots

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 04:45 PM

link

reply to post by Autograf

a system designed to maintain a parameter in the face of other, changing parameters, in order to systematize production goals

Thanks, sincerely, that needed to be posted badly.

edit on 23-2-2014 by Bybyots because: pefectly put

Autograf

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 04:51 PM

link

lostgirl
reply to post by Brotherman

So, where did the feedback mechanism exist before the internet?

Folklore. Verbal history.

We've all read countless smarmy, condescending ethnographic descriptions of tribal people and their steadfast belief in "spirits".

Vallee actually went deep into the Brazilian Interior to meet some of those people, hear their stories, and see the evidence, and came back with a very frightening picture of dangerous, unknown phenomena (the chupa).

edit on 23-2-2014 by Autograf because: (no reason given)

The GUT

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:00 PM

link

I'm pretty sure that almost everyone who has been active in this thread understood Vallee's general inference as regards the phenomenon itself. Where it becomes enigmatic is just how--specifically--he might attempt to introduce "perturbations" into this theorized "control system."

Until Jacques decides to be more forthcoming, it's gonna continue to be somewhat of a guessing game. What I believe to also be important, is how those around him have interpreted/prostituted his thoughts for various schemas that revolve around the weaponization of social engineering and the kind of games the intelligence community play for myriad reasons.

We have a heap of b.s. that's been injected into ufology (and thusly mythology) that can provide, possibly, some "back-tracking" as to what's either going on behind the scenes...or maybe even possible future scenarios.

I would also proffer, once again, that UFO forums are a unique opportunity to try and influence the "system," and that we probably have seen evidence of that here and elsewhere in the ufological community.

1ofthe9

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:21 PM

link

The GUT
I'm pretty sure that almost everyone who has been active in this thread understood Vallee's general inference as regards the phenomenon itself. Where it becomes enigmatic is just how--specifically--he might attempt to introduce "perturbations" into this theorized "control system."

Until Jacques decides to be more forthcoming, it's gonna continue to be somewhat of a guessing game. What I believe to also be important, is how those around him have interpreted/prostituted his thoughts for various schemas that revolve around the weaponization of social engineering and the kind of games the intelligence community play for myriad reasons.

We have a heap of b.s. that's been injected into ufology (and thusly mythology) that can provide, possibly, some "back-tracking" as to what's either going on behind the scenes...or maybe even possible future scenarios.

I would also proffer, once again, that UFO forums are a unique opportunity to try and influence the "system," and that we probably have seen evidence of that here and elsewhere in the ufological community.

Bingo. We have the stories, we just need to figure out who the authors are.

lostgirl

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:23 PM

link

Autograf
We actually do know precisely what he means. It's defined rigorously. The problem is the words "control" and "system" have individual meanings which cloud the issue.

Yes, yes, we all do know the Wikipedia definition (how could we not, as many times as you've reminded us?)

But it wasn't until corsair's post of the "Coast to Coast" interview with Vallee (bottom page 69), that we had a 'working' definition of Vallee's own particular "Control System", which is the only one that concerns us here....

1ofthe9

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:30 PM
link

Brotherman - I'd be interested in seeing your stuff. I think you've reached similar conclusions to myself on this stuff.

What if the phenomena changed 'shape' again - what are people seeing instead of flying saucers?

lostgirl

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:30 PM
link

1ofthe9

The GUT
I'm pretty sure that almost everyone who has been active in this thread understood Vallee's general inference as regards the phenomenon itself. Where it becomes enigmatic is just how--specifically--he might attempt to introduce "perturbations" into this theorized "control system."

Until Jacques decides to be more forthcoming, it's gonna continue to be somewhat of a guessing game. What I believe to also be important, is how those around him have interpreted/prostituted his thoughts for various schemas that revolve around the weaponization of social engineering and the kind of games the intelligence community play for myriad reasons.

We have a heap of b.s. that's been injected into ufology (and thusly mythology) that can provide, possibly, some "back-tracking" as to what's either going on behind the scenes...or maybe even possible future scenarios.

I would also proffer, once again, that UFO forums are a unique opportunity to try and influence the "system," and that we probably have seen evidence of that here and elsewhere in the ufological community.

Bingo. We have the stories, we just need to figure out who the authors are.

I don't know that the Control System (or manipulators, we might say) are necessarily the "authors" of the stories...People make up stories (and promote them as true) all the time - my thinking is that the manipulators are attracted to stories with certain parameters (perhaps ones with greater numbers of 'believers'?) and then propagate those stories by manifesting phenomena...

The GUT

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:33 PM
link

I've mentioned it before, but one seemingly very important part of Vallee's theory that has went basically undiscussed is how he ties it to human consciousness just about every time he has spoken/written about it. How do we decipher that and put it into context? It suggests--as far as I can figure--some very Jungian-esque qualities.

Col. Alexander also makes the same point in his rip-off of Vallee with his PSP (Pre-cognizant Sentient Phenomena) and ties the whole phenomenon to human consciousness as well.

How would a totally separate and outside influence tie into human consciousness unless the assertion being made is that we are somehow co-creators or some such with it?

edit on 23-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

1ofthe9

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:36 PM
link

lostgirl

1ofthe9

The GUT
I'm pretty sure that almost everyone who has been active in this thread understood Vallee's general inference as regards the phenomenon itself. Where it becomes enigmatic is just how--specifically--he might attempt to introduce "perturbations" into this theorized "control system."

Until Jacques decides to be more forthcoming, it's gonna continue to be somewhat of a guessing game. What I believe to also be important, is how those around him have interpreted/prostituted his thoughts for various schemas that revolve around the weaponization of social engineering and the kind of games the intelligence community play for myriad reasons.

We have a heap of b.s. that's been injected into ufology (and thusly mythology) that can provide, possibly, some "back-tracking" as to what's either going on behind the scenes...or maybe even possible future scenarios.

I would also proffer, once again, that UFO forums are a unique opportunity to try and influence the "system," and that we probably have seen evidence of that here and elsewhere in the ufological community.

Bingo. We have the stories, we just need to figure out who the authors are.

I don't know that the Control System (or manipulators, we might say) are necessarily the "authors" of the stories...People make up stories (and promote them as true) all the time - my thinking is that the manipulators are attracted to stories with certain parameters (perhaps ones with greater numbers of 'believers'?) and then propagate those stories by manifesting phenomena...

Nailed it.

So what can we do? Can we try our hand at spinning the needle, and provoking a reaction? We could badly use the data. Construct a PSP/UFO 'trap'? If we can only interact with it on its own terms, can we pin down what they are?

1ofthe9

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:37 PM
link

The GUT
I've mentioned it before, but one seemingly very important part of Vallee's theory that has went basically undiscussed is how he ties it to human consciousness just about every time he has spoken/written about it. How do we decipher that and put it into context? It suggests--as far as I can figure--some very Jungian-esque qualities.

Col. Alexander also makes the same point in his rip-off of Vallee with his PSP (Pre-cognizant Sentient Phenomena) and ties the whole phenomenon to human consciousness as well.

How would a totally separate and outside influence tie into human consciousness unless the assertion being made is that we are somehow co-creators or some such with it?

edit on 23-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

I think I know why. Computer science and all.

Brotherman

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 05:43 PM
link

1ofthe9
Brotherman - I'd be interested in seeing your stuff. I think you've reached similar conclusions to myself on this stuff.

What if the phenomena changed 'shape' again - what are people seeing instead of flying saucers?

So far the only thing that I have concluded in regards to UFO's at least is simply that what we are seeing is an elaborate fabrication (lie) of reality. Where it comes from, whats controlling it, why its doing what it does, are all very mysterious and spooky things that are unknown to me. This is the only certainty I hold and maintain and thus far have not seen anything to convince me otherwise.

lostgirl

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 06:03 PM
link

The GUT
I've mentioned it before, but one seemingly very important part of Vallee's theory that has went basically undiscussed is how he ties it to human consciousness just about every time he has spoken/written about it. How do we decipher that and put it into context? It suggests--as far as I can figure--some very Jungian-esque qualities.

edit on 23-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

I think I may actually have hit on something....

Our consciousness is highly affected by our belief systems, right? So maybe the consciousness 'part' that "ties in" to the Control System relates to 'belief'?

Maybe the 'System' sort of feeds on belief? So when a large enough number of people start to believe something, it starts manifesting phenomena in order to keep the belief growing and subsequently spread that belief to different areas of the world...

This would totally explain why the phenomena has changed from 'fairies to flying saucers'...and could also explain why the shape of ufos has changed to a predominantly triangular one...
edit on 23-2-2014 by lostgirl because: (no reason given)

corsair00

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 06:03 PM
link

I am heading out at the moment, so I won't be able to add too much, but I did want to post the actual mp3 files for that Coast to Coast AM interview from 2010 where Vallee discusses the control system theory.

It is on Hour 2 at 8:22 when Knapp asks about 'Control System Theory'

He talks more about taking UFOlogy to the "next level" later on in the same interview.

I will add more later.
edit on 2014-02-23T18:04:17-06:002014Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:04:17 -060017pm04Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:04:17 -060000 by corsair00 because: (no reason given)

corsair00

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 06:06 PM
link

reply to post by lostgirl

Yup, you got it! Check out Carl Jung's 'collective unconscious' interpretation of what he called the flying saucer "archetype" and how visions and dreams from different cultures spring up to form their own cultural mythologies. One could say that the UFO represents a modern mythology - but it is much more than that...