It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

page: 74
156
<< 71  72  73    75  76  77 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 07:41 PM
link   

lostgirl
I feel strongly that if the group can carry off (and carry thru) this experiment as if it is genuinely their 'reality', that within four to six weeks, the "Control System" will be attracted and 'phenomena' will begin manifesting....

Unfortunately, anyone who decides to run such an experiment will have to take it from here...I haven't a clue what should come next...

ATS members:
Many thanks for your patience!! We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread..


Well. I'm certainly willing to assist in anything that comes of this.

edit on 12014f2807America/Chicago9 by 1ofthe9 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:29 PM
link   

lostgirl
There is so much info in this book...including Vallee's interest in the occult (strictly as an observer as he attempted to find clues to the 'supernatural' aspect of ufo phenomena).

Here's where I personally find Vallee just a tad disingenuous. He not only has a longtime interest in "hermeticism," but he has also partially dedicated books to his longtime friend and mentor Aime Michel. Not to mention his friendship/admiration of Jacques Bergier and many others.

Jacques Vallee, Anton LaVey, Aime Michel

Vallee has spent a lot of time--and formed friendships--with those whose philosophy is of an occultic nature. He also refers, somewhere, to occult "initiation" in the first person if my memory serves---I'll try and hunt it down.

I included the following interview excerpt in Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Rosicrucianism, and UFOs. While it could, I guess, be construed as dispassionate scientific interest, I believe it suggests more. I'll build on this theme more if necessary---there's a lot to choose from.


Dr. Bob: Dr. Vallee, how did you become interested in the order of the Rose Cross, and what value did it have in your growth and development?



Dr. Jacques Vallee: As a young student, I must have been 18 or 19 when I first became interested. I was really looking for information about traditions and I became aware of the fact that science didn't just come out of the imagination of a few people, that there was a tradition of research that went very far back, and that at some period in history had been actually underground. I was looking for information about that. That's what led me to the Rosicrucian tradition.

Hynek & Vallee


Dr. Bob: I was surprised also to learn later on that Dr. Hynek was also a member for a number of years.


Dr. Jacques Vallee: Yes, I think I relate in my diary the time when we came to discussing this and I was delighted to learn that he had, for many years, gotten information from the tradition as well. We both came to the same conclusion, by the way, that we really didn't need an organization to continue this research, as there were many sources around and that kind of research was best done independently. But those organizations were very sincere and gave us a start.

link



lostgirl…Vallee never worked for any government agency. He was never with the CIA, NSA, or any other 'alphabet' guys. He worked for SRI on projects which were then later taken over by or utilized by various governmental departments.....

That may seem hard to believe, given everything written on the subject, but I promise you if you read this book, it becomes irrefutable...


In UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies, and Realities, Col. John B. Alexander states:



During the 1970s he (Vallee) was involved with many of the same intelligence organizations that were participating in the ATP.


Again: There's a lot to choose from and much of it in FS II itself.


Willtell
And the thing that connects him to the big boys is J Hynek the guy who brought our old friend pAUL Bennewitz the super computer.

I WONDER WHO WAS THE COMPUTER EXPERT TO COOK THAT UP?!


I'm a big fan/proponent of Sherlockian deduction and agree that there is some circumstantial evidence to take the above assertions seriously. However, the evidence, thus far, is, imo, pretty weak and as such maybe too premature to be fair to Vallee.

As far as I can tell, we only have one letter from William "Bill" Moore to base his Hynek/Vallee/Bennewitz tale on. I personally believe Bill told much of the truth at his MUFON speech/admission of guilt, but I also take much of it with a grain of salt.

Vallee pretty much ripped him a new one in Revelations and I'm sure William Moore was smarting from that. Why didn't he mention Vallee before that in relation to Bennewitz? Not to say that there is NO evidence for that suggestion, just that it has zero collaboration on any sort so far other than Bill Moore said so as far as I've seen. It's certainly possible, admittedly, that there is more than I know on that out there.

I'm definitely keeping an open mind on it, though.


edit on 24-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:37 PM
link   
Fascinating excerpts from an interview of Dr. Vallee by Daniel Blair Stewart in Green Egg Magazine which billed itself as, "The Official Organ of the Church of All Worlds -"A Magazine of Goddess and Nature Religion" - Vol. XXTV, No. 95, Yule 1991



...It could also be tied to human consciousness. The Collective Unconscious could be doing this to us, projecting images that are important during the current crisis we are going through. It could also come from a form of creature that has always lived on Earth with us and is not an alien consciousness, in the sense that we usually think of aliens. This goes back to the traditions about the faeries and gnomes and Little People: what I have called the Magonia tradition, that in fact there is another Universe right here. Perhaps most of us just don’t see it, but it’s here.

When I started Passport to Magonia, I gathered all the old books about the faeries and the Good People, the Good Neighbors. This is a wonderful body of literature. These beings did approximately what the UFO beings do today. They would fly at night in strange cone-shaped luminous craft, they would abduct human beings, they even had little pins that would paralyze you. This is centuries ago, okay? And it matches reports from people who see UFOs today.

So I think that parallel is very interesting. It’s still one of my favorite theories but there could be others! You could argue that there are natural phenomena that play a role in all this. For instance, Paul Devereux has written several books about "Earth lights" which he has shown to be tied to several megalithic sites.

Whether the megaliths have anything to do with UFOs, or whether those sites tended to have strange lights so that over the years people used them for their temple and put a rock there, is open to question. Perhaps it was a natural phenomenon all along. That’s a possibility, but it really does not explain all UFOs.

The other possibility is that there may be forces within the Earth tied to some old traditions. There may be unrecognized telluric currents, forces within the Earth that could manifest in the form of electromagnetic phenomena that could become luminous and float through the air. Usually those things we don’t think of as being intelligent but who knows? Maybe it could be a form of consciousness.

There are other way-out theories that I find entertaining. We could imagine superconductive clouds moving through the galaxy taking any shape they want. Say, if you were a superconductive hydrogen cloud ten times the size of the solar system and you wanted to look like a Volkswagen, who could stop you from looking like a Volkswagen? You could do anything you wanted to!

There is a book called The Black Cloud by Fred Hoyle, who is one of our greatest living astronomers. It is a science fiction story about a conscious hydrogen cloud. Now, of course if there was such a cloud we’d presumably see it as it came closer to the Earth. But there may be forms of plasma that we don’t know how to detect yet, or maybe we’re simply not looking for them.

Now, I don’t specifically believe all that, but these are fun theories that should be looked at. Paul Devereux’s hypothesis of the Earth Lights is a very important one.

Geologists today are beginning to reassess the descriptions by people who said they saw lights before an earthquake: "I saw this globe of light and it flew down the canyon and ten minutes later there was an earthquake!" Geologists used to say those were ignorant farmers who didn’t know their physics. Now they are beginning to realize that before an earthquake the friction forces within the Earth could well create plasma or electromagnetic discharges that could become visible. In fact, scientists like Dr. John Derr at the US Geological Survey have found a correlation of these lights with fault lines and earthquakes...

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:42 PM
link   
reply to post by The GUT
 

The thing is, when it comes down to choosing whose word over whose, I think Vallee wins hands down over Alexander...



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:46 PM
link   

lostgirl
Does anyone else wonder if when he says "ruthless", it means 'malevolent'?

He certainly seems to suggest so especially in Confrontations. Some pretty strong language in that book.



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 09:47 PM
link   

lostgirl
reply to post by The GUT
 

The thing is, when it comes down to choosing whose word over whose, I think Vallee wins hands down over Alexander...

Vallee wrote the forward for the book and they remain friends. I'm fairly certain the description is accurate. What that suggests, of course, is up for interpretation.


edit on 24-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 10:16 PM
link   
In 'Revelations; Alien Contact and Human Deception', in discussing the Bennewitz affair, Vallee offers a few quite pertinent statements. His on belief in nuts and bolts craft seemingly shattered, he offers this


A single basic question remains. Given that all the stories about aliens, MJ-12, and crashed disks are delusionary, are we dealing with a spontaneous epidemic of strange beliefs among overly imaginative amateurs frustrated by the lack of progress in their research? Or is there a more sinister force at work, using them to purposely disseminate spurious data to serve its own purposes?


I would take this and go one step further, which goes back to some things I've alluded to earlier in this and other threads; Is it possible that whatever this sinister force may be, human or otherwise, could it be the same source that seduced Pilkington and the writing of Mirage Men? The players (Doty, Kit Green among others), are the same - is there a nonlinear (or otherwise) agenda at play here?

To paraphrase Klass, are we any nearer, and will we ever get any closer to understanding this phenomena, and what it is all about?

edit on 24-2-2014 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 11:12 PM
link   

cuckooold
In 'Revelations; Alien Contact and Human Deception', in discussing the Bennewitz affair, Vallee offers a few quite pertinent statements. His on belief in nuts and bolts craft seemingly shattered, he offers this


A single basic question remains. Given that all the stories about aliens, MJ-12, and crashed disks are delusionary, are we dealing with a spontaneous epidemic of strange beliefs among overly imaginative amateurs frustrated by the lack of progress in their research? Or is there a more sinister force at work, using them to purposely disseminate spurious data to serve its own purposes?


I would take this and go one step further, which goes back to some things I've alluded to earlier in this and other threads; Is it possible that whatever this sinister force may be, human or otherwise, could it be the same source that seduced Pilkington and the writing of Mirage Men? The players (Doty, Kit Green among others), are the same - is there a nonlinear (or otherwise) agenda at play here?

To paraphrase Klass, are we any nearer, and will we ever get any closer to understanding this phenomena, and what it is all about?

edit on 24-2-2014 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)


Well this just broke today...



posted on Feb, 24 2014 @ 11:50 PM
link   

1ofthe9
Well this just broke today...

HAS to be looked at to be believed.

Pg 7 - We want to build Cyber Magicians

It even has some UFO pics





This document really needs to be perused to understand the depth of the sickness, ALL the areas of social engineering that are covered, and the diabolical nature inherent in it. Full presentation on SCRIBD: www.scribd.com...

It truly is the essence of black magic. Manly P. Hall on Science as Black Magic


The most dangerous form of black magic is the scientific perversion of occult power for the gratification of personal desire. Its less complex and more universal form is human selfishness, for selfishness is the fundamental cause of all worldly evil.

A man will barter his eternal soul for temporal power, and down through the ages a mysterious process has been evolved which actually enables him to make this exchange. In its various branches the black art includes nearly all forms of ceremonial magic, necromancy, witchcraft, sorcery, and vampirism. Under the same general heading are also included mesmerism and hypnotism, except when used solely for medical purposes, and even then there is an element of risk for all concerned.

Though the demonism of the Middle Ages seems to have disappeared, there is abundant evidence that in many forms of modern thought--especially the so-called “prosperity” psychology, “willpower-building” metaphysics, and systems of “high-pressure” salesmanship--black magic has merely passed through a metamorphosis, and although its name be changed its nature remains the same.

---from Ceremonial Magick and Sorcery

www.brainsturbator.com...


I think I've met a few of 'em 'round these parts...Abra-Cadabra-BOO...freaking sociopathic buttholes.

Member dreamingawake's thread needs the hell bumped out of it:

The Conspiracy Theory Is True: Agents Infiltrate Websites Intending To "Manipulate, Deceive, And Destroy Reputations"


edit on 25-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 12:22 AM
link   
It's a literal legacy of MK-ULTRA I'm betting. The slides even glorify magician John Mullholland. Who the CIA took poor Frank Olson to for a little "hypno-therapy" before he was suicided.





While in New York, Olson also met with John Mullholland, a CIA-employed magician. When Mullholland attempted to hypnotize Olson, the latter grew upset. He pleaded with them all to “just let me disappear.” Unfortunately, that wasn’t any kind of magic trick that John Mullholland could perform. The CIA had an entirely different trick up its sleeve and shortly thereafter, Frank Olson plunged to his death from his hotel window.

morallowground.com...





edit on 25-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 12:25 AM
link   
reply to post by lostgirl
 


It's interesting, I like it. Somewhat convoluted, but isn't everything? I think I understand what you're getting at.

But my personal synchronicity is that last night I left this thread about the Control System, and manipulating the collective unconscious to trigger a UFO event, so that I could attend a workshop on shamanism and see the screening of a new documentary called 'Aya Awakenings'.

This subject of shamanism has been raised many times by many people involved in UFO research, like Colonel Alexander, the man largely behind the research at Skinwalker Ranch, but it has proven to be very controversial and even detested on ATS. I don't want to irritate anyone by bringing it up (again), but the long and short of all this is that - yes, of course consciousness and spirituality and the collective unconscious is involved with this phenomenon! And ayahuasca shamanism represents some of the most cutting edge experiences that human consciousness can undergo. The shamans themselves speak of seeing UFOs in their visionary states, even in the middle of the Amazon rainforest. People under the influence of this ancient spirit medicine see hyperdimensional vortexes of reptilian intelligence open up above them and experience telepathic states of mind with those who are also participating. Information about caring for the planet is imparted and out of body experiences are had.

Scientific research done on the chemicals associated with ayahuasca and other psychedelic compounds show a close relationship to serotonin and the pineal gland. The pineal gland really is the hub of inner vision and spirit and is also responsible for deep REM sleep and the synthesis of melatonin. As I have mentioned in other threads, 3-AM is the time most people do their deep REM dreaming as well as the time many "alien abductions" are experienced by contactees/abductees. The pineal gland manufactures the very same chemicals that are found in nature and in the very plants used in sacraments like ayahuasca.

So, if you want to trigger the collective unconscious to stir up paranormal phenomena like UFO sightings, shamanic techniques must be employed and experienced in large groups like you have suggested in your experiment. Dr. Greer uses transcendental meditation, with mediocre effect. Maybe one could use the CSETI protocols, but just add a high dose of one of these shamanic preparations to the mix!

I think all kinds of methods and strategies have already been tried, in conjunction with very sophisticated computer technology. My hunch is that the UFO phenomenon represents Artificial Intelligence reached by quantum computers crossing a point of Singularity; time, the connection between the global wiring of the internet, Jacques Vallee and friends' pioneering work, UFOs, the collective unconscious, spiritual awakening and 'hotspots of information' or the 'Control System' - this is all intimately connected, IMHO...


'The Oversoul'



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 01:37 AM
link   

The GUT

1ofthe9
Well this just broke today...

HAS to be looked at to be believed.

Pg 7 - We want to build Cyber Magicians

It even has some UFO pics





This document really needs to be perused to understand the depth of the sickness, ALL the areas of social engineering that are covered, and the diabolical nature inherent in it. Full presentation on SCRIBD: www.scribd.com...

It truly is the essence of black magic. Manly P. Hall on Science as Black Magic


The most dangerous form of black magic is the scientific perversion of occult power for the gratification of personal desire. Its less complex and more universal form is human selfishness, for selfishness is the fundamental cause of all worldly evil.

A man will barter his eternal soul for temporal power, and down through the ages a mysterious process has been evolved which actually enables him to make this exchange. In its various branches the black art includes nearly all forms of ceremonial magic, necromancy, witchcraft, sorcery, and vampirism. Under the same general heading are also included mesmerism and hypnotism, except when used solely for medical purposes, and even then there is an element of risk for all concerned.

Though the demonism of the Middle Ages seems to have disappeared, there is abundant evidence that in many forms of modern thought--especially the so-called “prosperity” psychology, “willpower-building” metaphysics, and systems of “high-pressure” salesmanship--black magic has merely passed through a metamorphosis, and although its name be changed its nature remains the same.

---from Ceremonial Magick and Sorcery

www.brainsturbator.com...


I think I've met a few of 'em 'round these parts...Abra-Cadabra-BOO...freaking sociopathic buttholes.

Member dreamingawake's thread needs the hell bumped out of it:

The Conspiracy Theory Is True: Agents Infiltrate Websites Intending To "Manipulate, Deceive, And Destroy Reputations"


edit on 25-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)


Oh jesus. I didn't even read that stuff. This is really more #ed up than I thought.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 11:14 AM
link   
reply to post by The GUT
 


Great Post Gut...
Vallee being highly educated knows that Hermetism is the source of much of the renaissance science including from giants like Galileo, Newton, Kepler, and of course the great Giordano Bruno.

ALL of these men and many others, John Dee for instance, were influenced mainly but Hermitism and much of their ideas of heliocentric science stemmed from this awareness of Hermetic ideals.

Vallee is a true renaissance man so he would be aware of the source of his scientific heritage which is Hermetism.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 11:20 AM
link   
reply to post by corsair00
 


Likely, the higher beings we call aliens, are getting in tune with the evolutionary (time and contextual intelligence of humans) stream of this epoch in order to be able to really help humankind. I call it: Evolutionary Intelligence or God.

When this is known this vast computer of the soul may initiate the crux of what we all want: transformation.

edit on 25-2-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 12:22 PM
link   
reply to post by Willtell
 

You know, I desperately hope that you are right...

Unfortunately, a close look at recent history (past 200 yrs or so), shows very clearly that humankind is sinking to lower and lower societal 'levels'...and worse - studying the past hundred years (as ufo/supernatural phenomena has become more and more widespread), it is very obvious that this 'de'evolution is happening faster and faster...



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 12:37 PM
link   
reply to post by corsair00
 

First, that picture totally freaks me out
!

But yes, I think you understand that my experiment is based on the idea of affecting a 'microcosm' of collective unconsciousness, because -unless you're the government - it would be too difficult to run an experiment which manipulates enough people to affect the collective unconsciousness as a whole...

Which is also why the 'test group' needs to be in a state of 'relationship', to sort of 'ramp up' their consciousness of each other - which imo, is likely to have a greater effect on the 'power' of their 'group' unconsciousness...

And of course, such an experiment could not expect to see results on such a grand scale as full out ufo phenomena, but I do believe that it could 'attract' the System to a degree of achieving 'noticeable' phenomena 'data'....



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 12:50 PM
link   

The GUT

lostgirl
reply to post by The GUT
 

The thing is, when it comes down to choosing whose word over whose, I think Vallee wins hands down over Alexander...

Vallee wrote the forward for the book and they remain friends. I'm fairly certain the description is accurate. What that suggests, of course, is up for interpretation.
edit on 24-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)


Yes, but reading Forbidden Science II, it's very clear that Vallee is a secure enough person to maintain friendship with people he utterly disagrees with, Kit Greene being a primary example.
Vallee continually expresses great frustration at Greene's adamant refusal to even consider the possibility that there is anything 'paranormal' or even extraterrestrial about ufo phenomena...
Greene continually and stubbornly insisted that there was nothing to any of it except hoax and/or hallucination...
Yet even when arguing his case, Vallee never denounces the friendship...

(I do believe that on Greene's part, the friendship was maintained in secret hopes to eventually convince Vallee to 'join' in with his government colleagues. The same may be the case with Alexander).



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 01:13 PM
link   
I hate to be repetitive, but I have to note that in FSII, it's clear that the friendship with Michel was based on their mutual opinion of a paranormal 'source' for ufos...and the friendship with Bergier was based both on Vallee's (scientific) interest in the Nazi's occult 'doings', and deep admiration for Bergier's WWII work as a Spy against Nazi Germany...

The GUT
Aime Michel. Jacques Bergier
Vallee has spent a lot of time--and formed friendships--with those whose philosophy is of an occultic nature. He also refers, somewhere, to occult "initiation" in the first person if my memory serves---I'll try and hunt it down.

I included the following interview excerpt in Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Rosicrucianism, and UFOs. While it could, I guess, be construed as dispassionate scientific interest, I believe it suggests more.

As far as this interview, I think it could more likely be construed as 'passionate' scientific interest...

And please know Gut, my intention here isn't to argue against you - I just want to present what I think is a valid perspective...

p.s. If you find evidence that Vallee ever sought out initiation into any occult group, I will be happy to eat my words..



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 01:21 PM
link   
reply to post by lostgirl
 

A lot of information gets lost in a wide-ranging thread of this length, but I generally back Jacques and stick up for him for much the same reasons as you.

However, for me, I have to keep an open mind as to what degree his work and associations might have compromised him. There are some items of information in that arena that must be considered as well.

Jacques, imo, is an uber-brilliant mind of exceptional note and a double-threat as a fine philosopher to boot. I do believe he has valiantly tried to tell us some very important things about the military-intelligence-industrial complex and UFOs.

I don't want to repost it, but I do hope you'll go back to pg 4 & 5 and take a look at my FS II sections again since it was so early in the thread and a lot has developed since then. I think that info is pretty meaty as regards things Aviary-an.



posted on Feb, 25 2014 @ 01:26 PM
link   

lostgirl
p.s. If you find evidence that Vallee ever sought out initiation into any occult group, I will be happy to eat my words..

Vallee definitely seems to identify with hermetic tradition. I don't think one has to join any organization to lean towards mystery traditions, nor does one have to join an occult group to experience "initiation." I'm sure you understand that 'initiation' in this sense doesn't mean some official ceremony?




top topics



 
156
<< 71  72  73    75  76  77 >>

log in

join