It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

page: 68
154
<< 65  66  67    69  70  71 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 12:20 AM
link   
After reading back a few pages to see if there was anything new, it appears that posters are still mistaking "control system" for "the Man controlling us, man!" It may have been better if Vallee had chosen a phrase less prone to misinterpretation. Then again, he was talking over the .s of most people to begin with...about a topic which is famously inaccessible.

I'm currently reading Confrontation, which has been hinted to have a lot of stuff 'between the lines', and really seems to answer a lot of the recurring questions in this thread.

In the first 30 pages this gem appears:



I do not believe that any government has the answer to the UFO problem, although several governments must have the proof of its reality.


He also notes that he won't touch the three related topics of cults, cattle mutilation and government activity. And that he has files on cases too disturbing to release before further verification and contemplation. This was in 1990, it would seem he's had plenty of time to contemplate by now!

He describes the UFO problem as "dangerous" and "technologically complex", and that investigation of 100 unpublished cases including nearly half interviewed with primary sources, left him with "clarity".

This is gonna be good!

He talks about this case, which I had a picture sitting around for:


edit on 20-2-2014 by Autograf because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 02:56 AM
link   

Autograf
After reading back a few pages to see if there was anything new, it appears that posters are still mistaking "control system" for "the Man controlling us, man!" It may have been better if Vallee had chosen a phrase less prone to misinterpretation. Then again, he was talking over the .s of most people to begin with...about a topic which is famously inaccessible.

I'm currently reading Confrontation, which has been hinted to have a lot of stuff 'between the lines', and really seems to answer a lot of the recurring questions in this thread.

In the first 30 pages this gem appears:



I do not believe that any government has the answer to the UFO problem, although several governments must have the proof of its reality.


He also notes that he won't touch the three related topics of cults, cattle mutilation and government activity. And that he has files on cases too disturbing to release before further verification and contemplation. This was in 1990, it would seem he's had plenty of time to contemplate by now!

He describes the UFO problem as "dangerous" and "technologically complex", and that investigation of 100 unpublished cases including nearly half interviewed with primary sources, left him with "clarity".

This is gonna be good!

He talks about this case, which I had a picture sitting around for:


edit on 20-2-2014 by Autograf because: (no reason given)


Just wait until you see the stuff about burned NSA agents in Forbidden Science II.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 11:57 AM
link   
Hey folks,

Sorry I had meant to be out but I need to apologize.

The relationship between Richard Sharp Shaver and Ray Palmer was much richer and more complex than my short-sighted blurb described. There was a lot going on there and the two were close buddies for 30 years.

There is a very good ATS thread on the subject here.

I have to admit that as I get deeper in to it my own ideas and beliefs regarding the CS are reinforced, but it was much more involved than just Palmer taking advantage of Shaver, that was not the case at all, the two were working together for a long time.




posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 02:10 PM
link   
I know this is not going to be very popular but I feel that I need to add the stuff as my opinion is a direct result of participating in these threads, so I feel that this is the only proper place to put the feedback I'm generating...

A couple of years back when we were talking about KG and the aviary and the linguistics stuff came up I went on my own little personal tear looking for where Jacques had f-ed up. Everybody does, it's just that Jacques is such a nice dude that even I found that it was counter-intuitive to try and analyze the guy for mistakes. But I made myself.

What I found, for one thing, is that the Lago De Cote photo is a hoaxed photo...




I decided to celebrate my recent 75th birthday anniversary by sharing with you something I discovered years ago: The September 4, 1971 photo of an alleged UFO over Lago de Cote in Costa Rica shows a prosaic object , not an anomalous one.
Thanks to Chris O'Brien's unsolicited comments on The Paracast for bringing me out of the closet on this.

I hope you will consider this letter a positive thing and not a negative one, because in scientific work, as in life, one must filter 'noise' to better monitor 'signal'. Perhaps you will agree after carefully studying what I have to say and present, that the Lago de Cote photograph belongs only in the archives of UFO studies as an example of how a photo that is a hoax and therefore constitutes nothing but 'noise', can for a time become esteemed by some as important evidence.

One would expect some rather dramatic kinetic after-effects on the lake surface, even into the next photo. None are visible. Surely if it were at the surface of the lake, we would see some light-absorption-reflection differentials on the lake surface near the object, due to the fast arrival and sudden stop (no matter if it arrived from below the surface or from any direction above it), but none are evidenced in the photo. And the authors admit there is no trace of a shadow.

Famous 1971 Lago de Cote UFO a Hoax?


The other thing that I found out is that Jacques is prone to overextending himself and f-ing up just like anyone else, I am still trying to understand what happened with Frank Fontaine and the Cergy-Pontoise Hoax.

I'm not sure what to make of it all other than that as brilliant as he is, I don't put my full faith in Jacques when it comes to looking for someone that has it totally figured out.

Also, I would like to offer that maybe Jacques is out of the game because he is old.


edit on 20-2-2014 by Bybyots because: . : .



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 03:37 PM
link   
I just want to point out that Dr. Jacques Vallee is largely responsible for the birth of the internet and the pioneer computer programming associated with it at S.R.I. The connection to covert ops, the occult and paranormal and the internet is a very shadowy connection indeed.

In fact, it is my recent suspicion that Vallee is very much involved, and has been all along, in top secret facilities working on advanced computer technologies in association with either the National Security Agency or whatever term you want to use for the "shadow government".

If you pay careful attention to the information presented by Jacob Applebaum, friend of Julian Assange and author of the security program TOR, you will see that very cutting edge programmers are being utilized by the NSA. Well, Vallee has already admitted to being involved with these people and has openly admitted to working at SRI in the early days. I can guarantee you that he is still with them now and working on surveillance systems. Note his close personal ties to Colonel John Alexander...

A few years ago, Jacques came out of the remote viewing closet to admit that he was also involved in that early research as well, at the same time Ingo Swann was doing his work at SRI. In fact, Vallee helped give a few breakthrough ideas to Swann. You can watch his keynote address to the International Remote Viewing Association here:




posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 03:58 PM
link   
reply to post by Bybyots
 


I am not entirely sure I would describe the Palmer/Shaver relationship as one of buddies, but they were collaborating right up until Shaver's death as far as I can ascertain. Palmer seems to have been particularly adept at knowing what had mass appeal, taking the failing Amazing Stories and turning it into a money earner with a combination of alien monsters and busty babe pulp stories. Following the publication of Shaver's initial letter, detailing the lost Lemurian language of Mandong, Palmer claimed that he received around 2500 letter a week from fans demanding to know more. Palmer passed the request onto Shaver, who replied with a 10,000 word letter entitled 'A Warning to Future Man', which Palmer reworked into a 31,000 word novella called 'I Remember Lemuria'.

The themes covered were pretty much well known, and whether it was Palmer or Shaver that used established sources on the topics is debatable. Helena Blavatsky wrote about Lemuria in Isis Unveiled and later extrapolated on it in The Secret Doctrine. Frederick Oliver wrote a novel called 'A Dweller on Two Planets', which told of telepathic messages received from a Tibetan Master, Phylos, which revealed that a Lemurian colony was located in Mount Shasta in northern California. William Scott-Eliott, wrote of a lost continent of Lemuria peopled by 12 foot high humans who had tamed plesiosaurs. Both of these were derived from themes established in Blavatsky's writings and embellished upon, which evidently found favour amongst a number of mystic-style secret societies in the US such as AMORC. Later, UFO sightings in the Mount Shasta region were ascribed to Lemurians flying in and out of the hollow earth...so the whole things seems to have grown exponentially, crossing various genres.

The rather banal basis for the Lemurian mythology began in the 1860s when a group of British geologists came up with a lost continent/land bridge to explain the similarity between rock strata, and the fossil record in South Africa and India. The name for this land bridge, Lemuria, was coined by Philip Sclater, based on the discovery of Lemur fossils on both continents. Of course, we now know that continental drift explains these similarities, but back then, they can be excused the speculation.

I don't know about Shaver, but I am sure that Palmer was very much aware of the Lemuria mythology, and he clearly had an uncanny ability to know how to best present it to capture the imagination of his readership. In September 1946 he ran the cover story 'Earth Slaves to Space', commissioning the cover artists to come up with a saucer shaped space craft to illustrate the story. The story told of aliens visiting Earth in these crafts in order to kidnap humans to take back home to work as slaves. In June the following year, Kenneth Arnold is reported as seeing just such a craft...and the rest, as they say, is history.

After Palmer quit Amazing Stories, he set up three successive magazine titles, 'Fate', 'Search' and 'Flying Saucers' which covered topics such as lost civilisations, psychic powers, hollow earth and alien abductions. Stories that had proved most popular in Amazing Stories.

I have tried to find out if he had any backers, but have come up blank, he seems to have been self-funded in the latter ventures, and Ziff-Davis who owned Amazing Stories are nothing hugely out of the ordinary (Ziff was big in the Zionist movement but I am not keen to go there, besides given that they tried to reign in Palmer, leading to him quitting, it is probably a bit too obvious...).


edit on 20-2-2014 by KilgoreTrout because: tidying up



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 04:13 PM
link   

Bybyots
I know this is not going to be very popular but I feel that I need to add the stuff as my opinion is a direct result of participating in these threads, so I feel that this is the only proper place to put the feedback I'm generating...

Not unpopular with me. I personally never bought that pic and have been rather stymied as to why Jacques thought it was good evidence. Having said that, I don't find Stanford's analysis definitive although I'm in basic agreement it ain't no saucer.

As far as the Fontaine abduction, I don't recall Vallee as having considered it a legitimate contact case, but rather suspected some government hank-panky. Reading the case in detail does leave a lot of questions unanswered. Simple hoax maybe, but maybe not. Again we see a baby saucer cult in the making after the incidence which can point to either of the above, but does raise some alarms.

Having said that, I do recall reading about at least a couple of cases Vallee considered anomalous that later turned out to be explainable in earthly terms though I can't recall at the moment what they were.

As far as leaving ufology because he was too old. Maybe in the "I'm tired of this conundrum and all the backbiting" maybe. One probably doesn't find oneself too old for ufology but sharp enough to be successful in venture capitalism.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 04:19 PM
link   
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 

So was Palmer primarily motivated by sales and the mythology was a by-product? He could fit the mold of that National Enquirer guy (Genoroso?Sp?) who is said to have started the rag with CIA funds.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 04:23 PM
link   

corsair00
I just want to point out that Dr. Jacques Vallee is largely responsible for the birth of the internet and the pioneer computer programming associated with it at S.R.I. The connection to covert ops, the occult and paranormal and the internet is a very shadowy connection indeed.

In fact, it is my recent suspicion that Vallee is very much involved, and has been all along, in top secret facilities working on advanced computer technologies in association with either the National Security Agency or whatever term you want to use for the "shadow government".

Probably. He did at least lead some training sessions at NSA which he himself mentions in Forbidden Science, Journal II. He seems to have some qualms about some of that stuff, but ultimately it's hard to say.

Alexander mentions that Vallee has worked for just about all the intelligence agencies on various projects.

Good to see you, mate. I was just thinking about shooting you an email. Do you recall any of the technologies Aquino referenced in MindWar regarding alleged behavior modification by computer?
edit on 20-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 04:41 PM
link   
reply to post by The GUT
 


I think that, possibly, he tripped on the power he derived from capturing other people's imaginations...but this is as good a summary as any from those who have written about him...


For those who consider Palmer to be “the man who invented flying saucers” (as ufologist John Keel has dubbed him), the Shaver episode speaks for itself. It was the succès de circulation of a magazine editor who has been described (by skeptic Martin Gardner) as “a shy, good-natured, gentle, energetic little man with the personality of a professional con artist,” whose “primary motive was simply to create uproars that would sell magazines.”


www.professorsolomon.com...

He seems to have been much like Shaw, had his finger on the pulse, used it for profit...but he seems to have had a genuine love for the genre to go with his Napoleon complex...so not really a bad guy, in my opinion



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 04:44 PM
link   
reply to post by The GUT
 





As far as leaving ufology because he was too old. Maybe in the "I'm tired of this conundrum and all the backbiting" maybe. One probably doesn't find oneself too old for ufology but sharp enough to be successful in venture capitalism.


No, I agree, I don't know what I was thinking.

Also, don't know who was screwing with whom in the Fontaine thing, but I think it's a pretty cool feature of the tale that Frank was hiding in a house somewhere, and that despite his full confession, you're right, a UFO cult sprang up around it that then refused to believe the "abductee" himself. It's a twisted tale and I wish there was more stuff on it.




edit on 20-2-2014 by Bybyots because: . : .



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 04:57 PM
link   
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


They kind of remind me of Master and Blaster from Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome:






posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 05:01 PM
link   
reply to post by The GUT
 


Hey! Yeah, I have been in winter hibernation. I just went outside and didn't see my shadow so I thought I'd forage around.

I totally missed this OP from last month. I guess it doesn't surprise me that it is already up to page 69! Only your threads have such vitality on this part of ATS. And it's a very good thing because it is the cutting edge aspects of the phenomena, as opposed to the B.S. - so it helps direct newbies down the right path. I will have to spend much time going through all the past pages to catch up. But it has already inspired me to read Jacques' book 'The Network Revolution'. I have bumped that to the top of my queue.

Many books I have I collect as a digital hoarder and information networker. Not many of them have I read all the way through, but I will definitely look through MindWar now that I am re-interested to check out the topic of consciousness and computer technology. I have heard many strange reports of consciousness-assisted technology, specifically in regards to using remote viewing through computer technology, but it tends to come from very odd sources like James Casbolt.

I was just watching a more recent interview with Casbolt again and he references 'Brave New World' type covert ops experiments with babies and children, being raised in secret facilities - but what struck me was that he claims one of these facilities exists in a totally random town in British Columbia, Canada. But I don't place too much trust on his story.

In regards to the 'Control System' of the NSA in regards to computer surveillance, as it relates to the recent Snowden testimony and the research done by hacktivists like Anonymous and friends, they have uncovered a very sophisticated system and reference beaming electromagnetic waves to effect computers etc. In Applebaum's presentation I linked above, he saves the most controversial part for last and says that most people would not believe it and think that he is crazy. He has a few half-joke slides sprinkled throughout the power-point presentation, including this telling one:



He adds after a long pause: "You'll notice it's a black cat, hiding..."



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 08:51 PM
link   

Bybyots
I know this is not going to be very popular but I feel that I need to add the stuff as my opinion is a direct result of participating in these threads, so I feel that this is the only proper place to put the feedback I'm generating...

A couple of years back when we were talking about KG and the aviary and the linguistics stuff came up I went on my own little personal tear looking for where Jacques had f-ed up. Everybody does, it's just that Jacques is such a nice dude that even I found that it was counter-intuitive to try and analyze the guy for mistakes. But I made myself.

What I found, for one thing, is that the Lago De Cote photo is a hoaxed photo...





I definitely appreciate the skeptical perspective especially for someone who goes almost unquestioned. And there are probably other things we could call him out on, and I'll be looking for them as I read and reread his material.

However, I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion of the analysis of the Lago De Cote photo. The debunking attempt makes a lot of unwarranted assumptions, in my opinion. I can go into detail if you like.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 09:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Autograf
 




However, I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion of the analysis of the Lago De Cote photo. The debunking attempt makes a lot of unwarranted assumptions, in my opinion. I can go into detail if you like.


Certainly, Autograf, I would be happy to hear it. I may be totally full of beans as I realize that I am almost always in a rush to remove pieces like the Lago De Cote UFO off the playing board so I don't have to worry about them anymore.

Looks like the hood of a fluorescent lighting fixture to me. Plus the missing frames before and after.

Thanks man.


edit on 20-2-2014 by Bybyots because: . : .



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 09:03 PM
link   
reply to post by corsair00
 


Got a link to that interview/presentation? Thanks.



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 09:13 PM
link   
reply to post by Autograf
 




To Protect And Infect, Part 2
The militarization of the Internet

Speaker: Jacob Applebaum ( @ioerror )
EventID: 5713
Event: 30th Chaos Communication Congress [30c3] by the Chaos Computer Club [CCC]
Location: Congress Centrum Hamburg (CCH); Am Dammtor; Marseiller Straße; 20355 Hamburg; Germany
edit on 2014-02-20T21:14:47-06:002014Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:14:47 -060047pm14Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:14:47 -060000 by corsair00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 09:38 PM
link   

Autograf
I definitely appreciate the skeptical perspective especially for someone who goes almost unquestioned. And there are probably other things we could call him out on, and I'll be looking for them as I read and reread his material.

However, I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion of the analysis of the Lago De Cote photo. The debunking attempt makes a lot of unwarranted assumptions, in my opinion. I can go into detail if you like.

Sic 'em, Autograf! You sure it ain't a streetlight, though?

Seattle UFO 2012-12-30

Can't let anyone go "unquestioned" or uncalled out, can we?



edit on 20-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2014 @ 10:11 PM
link   
reply to post by corsair00
 


I'm halfway through that video, it's so good, thanks for posting it.

2nd



Just finished it. I'm stunned and want to throw all my equipment away.

Whoa.

P.S. OMFG they are in the cables.
edit on 20-2-2014 by Bybyots because: why!?



posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 12:59 AM
link   
reply to post by The GUT
 


I found that Seattle picture on MUFON while combing through hundreds of fresh reports for interesting photos. It was unexplained there. I brought it here and it was instantly explained. I'm not sure if I should be insulted or flattered by your introducing that post into this thread.

Pretty sure it's not a streetlight in the Lago picture.

Preconceptions about 'nuts and bolts spacecraft' plague analysis of photos like this. Why does an unidentified object have to cast a shadow or appear in more than one (15~ second interval, in this case) frame? I don't mean to sound credulous, but it seems that these are unwarranted assumptions in the context of UFOs.



new topics

top topics



 
154
<< 65  66  67    69  70  71 >>

log in

join