Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

reply to post by corsair00

Way to go and THANK YOU, corsair.

That's fairly definitive in a number of ways compared to what we had before. I wonder what tidbits might be dug out of that to follow? Or is it even worth it? I'm sure they must have tried some of Vallee's suggestions along those lines at Skinwalker, too, I would think?

*Franck Fontaine after his first interrogation.


Hey,

Did everyone go to read "Purple Justice"?

I was wrong, Jacques wasn't f-ing-up, he seems once again to have been the only guy paying attention.

The Franck Fontaine Case seems to me now to be the French analog of Maury-thru-Roswell in America and the Antonio Vilas Boas case in Brazil'

The story even comes complete with it's own professional science-fiction-writer/hypnotist team, just like "Master and Blaster", in the form of writer Jimmy Guieu and hypnotist Daniel Huguet who seemed to be involved months ahead of Fontaine's disappearance.

There's more, but this'll do for now.



...just like Frankie Fontaine

corsair00
Coast to Coast AM - October 24 2010 - Jacques Vallee with George Knapp (manually transcribed, not copied and pasted)

G.K. You have said that this Control System theory of yours is testable. I'd like to know if you ever tested it and, if not, is it still doable?

J.V. I didn't mean necessarily that there was a supreme intelligence controlling it [the UFO phenomenon] or directing it. The phenomenon has the information characteristics of a control system. It comes in waves, it responds to certain things.

I've never published this but I will someday. As you know, one of the things I want to leave behind is a record of my own research called 'Forbidden Science'. I've published two volumes, so far, and they are not widely published but they are on record and I want to continue to do that.

In the 1990s I tried to create sort of an official thing like the ranch in Utah [Skinwalker Ranch]. This was of course before the events at the ranch. I tried to create a hot spot of information where I was hoping to sort of attract the phenomenon to be able to record it better. And it didn't give the results I was hoping for. It's not something you can just decide to engage with - at least I haven't found a way to do it. But it's worth continuing to try because there seems to be a form of consciousness behind it that is extremely subtle, has a great sense of humor, is completely ruthless - I mean I know from reading your book and actually being there what happened at Skinwalker Ranch. There is no simplistic explanation.

I've studied physics but I certainly don't consider myself a physicist. I'm trained in information science and in information science and logic you often have situations, even in mathematics, where you have contradictions in the material you're looking at. The solution is to go up a level. It's not to fight it and try to force it into a preconceived idea.

Don't want this potentially lost as the last entry on the following page...

corsair00
Coast to Coast AM - October 24 2010 - Jacques Vallee with George Knapp (manually transcribed, not copied and pasted)

G.K. You have said that this Control System theory of yours is testable. I'd like to know if you ever tested it and, if not, is it still doable?

J.V. I didn't mean necessarily that there was a supreme intelligence controlling it [the UFO phenomenon] or directing it. The phenomenon has the information characteristics of a control system. It comes in waves, it responds to certain things.

I've never published this but I will someday. As you know, one of the things I want to leave behind is a record of my own research called 'Forbidden Science'. I've published two volumes, so far, and they are not widely published but they are on record and I want to continue to do that.

In the 1990s I tried to create sort of an official thing like the ranch in Utah [Skinwalker Ranch]. This was of course before the events at the ranch. I tried to create a hot spot of information where I was hoping to sort of attract the phenomenon to be able to record it better. And it didn't give the results I was hoping for. It's not something you can just decide to engage with - at least I haven't found a way to do it. But it's worth continuing to try because there seems to be a form of consciousness behind it that is extremely subtle, has a great sense of humor, is completely ruthless - I mean I know from reading your book and actually being there what happened at Skinwalker Ranch. There is no simplistic explanation.

I've studied physics but I certainly don't consider myself a physicist. I'm trained in information science and in information science and logic you often have situations, even in mathematics, where you have contradictions in the material you're looking at. The solution is to go up a level. It's not to fight it and try to force it into a preconceived idea.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting this!!!

I have been combing thru Vallee's works and as many interviews as I could find (missing this one obviously) for exactly what he is explaining here...

This really is what the thread has been lacking all along, a 'definitive' description of Vallee's concept of his "Control System"...Is there more of the interview?

I'm wondering now, if he hasn't ever published a "Forbidden Science 3", because he was hoping for more concrete results in his 'experiments', so he could include them?

Now if we could only figure out what he means by, going "up a level"..

lostgirl
I'm wondering now, if he hasn't ever published a "Forbidden Science 3", because he was hoping for more concrete results in his 'experiments', so he could include them?

Now if we could only figure out what he means by, going "up a level"..

Yes, I'm looking forward to FS III. There seem to be so many clues about a plethora of topics in FS II. Vallee has even said so himself, although it's rather obvious when reading.

It needs someone like Redfern or Bishop--or corsair--who have more familiarity with the people and events he mentions to really vet it and follow his hints. I've been meaning to comb it better myself since I was rather focused on Aviary folk the first time through.

Thanks for the "revised edition" download. Do you know what the "revision" entailed?

And, yes: "Up a level," caught my attention, too.

Maybe someone should do a Forbidden Science thread?

reply to post by Brotherman

It's probably because, since we haven't been able to fully define Vallee's meaning in "Control System", there hasn't been enough info to use for 'conjecturing' on the topic -

Yet, no one wants to just let the thread go, because maybe someone will come across new info (which corsair has now done) to 'spur' a more 'topical' discussion, but in the meantime, in order to keep the thread going we've had to let the conversation wander...

Perhaps if you would stay and 'contribute' rather than merely stopping by in hopes of new developments, the extra input will help keep a "focused element" to the discussion?

reply to post by The GUT


Hey hows it going I wanted to inject this here for those that have not had a chance to read Messengers of Deception you can read it online at that link

reply to post by lostgirl


I've been working on something that I want to post here but have not had the time to really think about what it was that I was doing. I was using google statistics generated by their search functions to see exactly when and how majority of folks use the internet to get information regarding UFOs and cross referencing it to searches involving "demons" and other paranormal events on and around days of considerable sightings. What I have come to find is that there has been a steady number of people searching for UFOS online using google for a period until recently it starts to steadily decline, as compared to demons and other events have started to incline. The reasoning behind looking at things this way is because if there is a control system and it is based on an information loop I thought that maybe something could be measured from how and when people are interacting with this info especially based on the topic this is how I think Vallee would call the "social effects" Unfortunately I have not found anything that I can make sense of at this point but perhaps someone else is interested in looking and maybe they will find something more compelling. Just thought I would throw that out here.

The GUT

lostgirl
I'm wondering now, if he hasn't ever published a "Forbidden Science 3", because he was hoping for more concrete results in his 'experiments', so he could include them?

Now if we could only figure out what he means by, going "up a level"..

Yes, I'm looking forward to FS III. There seem to be so many clues about a plethora of topics in FS II. Vallee has even said so himself, although it's rather obvious when reading.
It needs someone like Redfern or Bishop--or corsair--who have more familiarity with the people and events he mentions to really vet it and follow his hints. I've been meaning to comb it better myself since I was rather focused on Aviary folk the first time through.
Thanks for the "revised edition" download.

Do you know what the "revision" entailed?
And, yes: "Up a level," caught my attention, too.

Maybe someone should do a Forbidden Science thread?

edit on 23-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

No, I hadn't ever read the 'first' edition of FSII, so I couldn't tell what might have been added or tweaked, although looking thru the end notes, there were a few tidbits of things (nothing of importance, I don't think) where he was clarifying points from the more current point of view...
I kept hoping there would be more 'years' of his life added to the revision, but there weren't...I think the publishers just wanted to put it out again, and he wasn't ready to put out more current info, so just added those tiny bits in the notes...
I wouldn't say you 'needed' to read the revised, having read the first one, but if you're going to do a 'comb thru' anyway, you could use the revised just in case there was stuff added that I wouldn't have been able to recognize...

As for a "Forbidden Science" thread, I don't know that it's needed what with all that has been covered, and hopefully will go on to be covered, here..

Unless, it would be worth taking the most relative info from this thread (particularly corsair's latest contribution) and starting a new thread 'just for the sake' of having fewer pages for newcomers to wade thru....

Brotherman makes a decent point. The control system idea I didn’t at all think Vallee was talking about “Control system” as relates to matrix or anything having to do with the NWO system or the US system, in-fact Vallee was referring to the communications of the Alien phenomenon to the human race—whether that was a subtle form of control and that the alien abductions and their “social” context was a controlling device.

Of course there is nothing wrong with extrapolating into other meanings of “control system” but that is NOT what Vallee was talking about in the interview.

Go back to the original statement Vallee made and you’ll see what I mean:

There are different kinds of control systems - open ones and closed ones - and there are tests you can apply to them to find out what kind of control system you're inside. That leads to a number of experiments you can do with the UFO phenomenon, whereas the other interpretations don't lead you to anything. If you're convinced that UFOs are extraterrestrial, then about the only thing you can do is to climb to a hilltop with a flashlight and send a message in Morse code. People have tried that, I know, but it doesn't seem to work very will! The control system concept can be tested by a small group of people - you don't need a large organization or a lot of equipment - and you can start thinking about active intervention in the phenomenon. Clark: How could I prove to my satisfaction that there is a control system in operations? Vallee: If you think you're inside a control system, the first thing you have to look for is what is being controlled and try to change it to see what happens. My friend Bill Powers proposes the following analogy:



Suppose you're walking through the desert and you see a stone that looks as though it was painted white. A thousand yards later you see another stone of similar appearance. You stop and consider the matter. Either you can forget it or - if you're like me - you can pick up the stone and move it a few feet. If suddenly a bearded character steps out from behind a rock and demands to know why you moved his marker, then you know you've found a control system. My point is that you can't be sure until you do something. Then you realize that what you were seeing, the thing that looked absurd and incongruous, was really a marker for a boundary that was invisible to everybody else until you discovered it because you looked for a pattern. I think that's exactly what we have to do with UFOs. We have to do something that will cause them to react. And I don't mean building landing strips in the desert and waiting out there to welcome the space brothers.

Brotherman
reply to post by lostgirl

 

I've been working on something that I want to post here but have not had the time to really think about what it was that I was doing. I was using google statistics generated by their search functions to see exactly when and how majority of folks use the internet to get information regarding UFOs and cross referencing it to searches involving "demons" and other paranormal events on and around days of considerable sightings. What I have come to find is that there has been a steady number of people searching for UFOS online using google for a period until recently it starts to steadily decline, as compared to demons and other events have started to incline. The reasoning behind looking at things this way is because if there is a control system and it is based on an information loop I thought that maybe something could be measured from how and when people are interacting with this info especially based on the topic this is how I think Vallee would call the "social effects" Unfortunately I have not found anything that I can make sense of at this point but perhaps someone else is interested in looking and maybe they will find something more compelling. Just thought I would throw that out here.

Wow, that sounds exactly like the kind of thing Vallee would have done!! In fact, in Forbidden Science II, there are similar kinds of charts with various ufo correlations (the only one I can remember off hand is 'times of day' & sightings)..
And I think he would say that 'not' finding anything doesn't detract from the value of the work, as the elimination of non-pertinent info is just as important as the addition of necessary info!

On the other hand, you may be right that if anyone else is able to look at the data, a different perspective may well find something of import...

I'm no good at 'deciphering' data, but reading this post, something about the "incline" of demons et al, verses ufos stands out to me - something sort of 'nudged' the back of my mind re: "social effects", the current societal outlook (extremely low, I would say almost to a degree of hopeless), and....????? (like I said, it was just a "nudge"..)

reply to post by Willtell


Here if you are interested

Link

an off topic read relating to information trends for those interested

This first link is one way I was trying to engage the "feedback" information


I also wanted to add that if you use that first link I used the term UFO for one of my queries if you take notice at the trends search peak it is in May 2004 this is the month and the year of the massive UFO sighting in Mexico, you can take the spikes and almost play by play filter out and down to most of the more made for tv sightings. This is interesting to me as these sightings do in fact subtly have people engage information probably for some in a new way. This is overt or covertly manipulative in itself whether or not this is the intention it happens and can be proven

Also if you search for Vallee and simply use this as a control you can see that searching for him had its peak in Nov. 2005 and then again started to rise the day of this thread Thought Id put that out there just for fun

Clark: How could I prove to my satisfaction that there is a control system in operations?
Vallee: If you think you're inside a control system, the first thing you have to look for is what is being controlled and try to change it to see what happens.

Unfortunately, this raises the question: How could just a few people "change" something that is happening on a societal level?

reply to post by lostgirl


If I whisper a secret into your ear and you tell it to someone else and they tell it to 2 people so forth and so on how much will that information change before It gets back to me?

What if what I told you was said specifically for you to re tell knowing it is going to get distorted and fed to everyone? Something to think about how few can manipulate so many.

reply to post by Brotherman

I'm wondering if there would be any point to correlating 'good' ufo (as in good aliens, good 'feelings' experienced, ect) versus 'evil'/bad (feelings/experience) ufo sightings?

And then correlating 'bad' ufo with demons etc....?

reply to post by lostgirl


I would imagine that those searches wouldn't turn up much as peoples define good and evil differently unless of course you knew or understood the measures taken by the forces involved in the phenomenon and derive a search specifically for that as you would understand their definition. Then again I could be wrong

reply to post by Brotherman

But enough of "so many" people to effect society on a world-wide or even country wide level? Although, I suppose with the internet that probably would be possible...maybe, depending what the secret was and how interested people might be in it...

Then again, I don't know anyone else (in all the people I know) who would be the least affected by what's happening on the internet, just as none of them have the slightest use for ufo or any other paranormal (or even societal) type 'secrets'...

It is just such a whole different world than when the whole ufo (and such) 'meme' started hitting the 'subconscious' (what's the term? the Jung thing?)

reply to post by lostgirl


The original secret is of little importance, its how it changes and becomes adept within the circle it was exposed to either willingly or not. It is obvious to me that UFO phenomenon DOES in fact manipulate society and its implications manipulate those in power so UFO does affect policy and people. Look at all these UFO New age movements and cults that have been springing up for the better portion of 100 years. Someones getting a message.

reply to post by lostgirl


LOL the Jung thing I believe you are looking for is "Archetype"

Brotherman
reply to post by lostgirl

 

The original secret is of little importance, its how it changes and becomes adept within the circle it was exposed to either willingly or not. It is obvious to me that UFO phenomenon DOES in fact manipulate society and its implications manipulate those in power so UFO does affect policy and people. Look at all these UFO New age movements and cults that have been springing up for the better portion of 100 years. Someones getting a message.

Oh I totally agree with that...

I guess I'm just trying to figure out how 'we', as few as we are, could have any effect on any of that (i.e. any effect on the 'manipulators').

The only way I can see possible, would be on the consciousness level...I mean, it would have to be people who have the ability to 'utilize' their consciousness (i.e. remote viewers and such), in order to have any affect on the "Control System" as defined by Vallee'...