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Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

page: 69
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posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 12:40 PM

Why does an unidentified object have to cast a shadow or appear in more than one (15~ second interval, in this case) frame? I don't mean to sound credulous, but it seems that these are unwarranted assumptions in the context of UFOs.

It doesn't, I agree, but then it has to exist outside our understanding of space-time constraints which is where you are going and Vallee attempts to lead us. I guess that's one reason why he accepts that photo. One small edge of it does seem to be non-existant as if straddling such a "dimensional" shift so to speak.

In the following vid--somewhere around the 7 minute point--he makes reference to "fastwalkers"--I think--and and seems to suggest we will all be made aware of what they are within a few years. He may have just been titillating the audience, but it did catch my attention.

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 12:46 PM


Woah. Thanks, corsair. Well worth the time to watch and it kept me interested throughout. All of it documented, too. Can anyone elaborate on that last bit about signal generation? If I understand it correctly, I might have some stuff from Persinger's published papers that might fit in.

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 02:48 PM

reply to post by Autograf

Thanks for posting this, I watched it while I lunched...what Applebaum said about the NSA going to GCHQ when they hit a brick wall...or words to that effect...reminded me of the Gareth Williams case...

I'm not sure if this has been posted anywhere else on ATS, but there was an article in the magazine supplement of the Guardian wasn't my paper and I unfortunately didn't think at the time to make a note of the author, but it was the 20th November 2010 issue which should be source enough...anyway...

Very, very interesting article regarding the investigation into Gareth Williams's death, and well worth reading if you can get hold of may be available online. But what stands out in my memory is the article claims that in 2003 he had been working with the NSA (as Ford Meade) using software that he had helped to develop which intercepts emails and phonecalls, to track a Moscow backed sleeper cell, claimed in the article to be the Anna Chapman Ring, in the US, according to a former GCHQ contractor, 'Williams had been obsessed with the case, it's methodology and characters.'

Following that secondment to MI6, he returned to GCHQ, again working with the NSA, on a US Cyber Defence Policy, and it is claimed he was researching British vulnerability to Russian, Turkish and Chinese gangs, and evidently, 'He was already on top of it.'

As far as what he was doing immediately prior to his death, it is suggested that he was monitoring foreign embassies, just as he had been doing in the US during his 'holidays'. One witness, who remembers him coming into their cafe, said he would sit in the corner with his laptop and occasionally have visitors.

More fun and games

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 02:50 PM
reply to post by The GUT

From Der Speigel....

The NSA’s ANT division has developed an entire range of equipment for seeing and hearing what happens inside rooms without having to actually install radio-signal-emitting bugging devices in them. Most of this equipment involves a combination of hardware implants which emit a very inconspicuous signal, and a radio unit aimed, from outside, at the space being monitored. Reflected radar waves are changed by the signal emitted by the implant hidden in the targeted space, making it possible to capture the location of a specific object in the room (device name: “TAWDRYYARD”), words spoken there (“LOUDATO”) or what is being displayed on a monitor (“NIGHTWATCH” and “RAGEMASTER”). ANT’s name for this family of surveillance equipment, made up of a combination of hardware implants and radar detection, is “ANGRYNEIGHBOR.” Then there is the CTX4000 radar unit, which can reveal the signals emitted by devices such as laser printers, even if they don’t contain an implant. The NSA calls this system “DROPMIRE,” and internal documents show it has been used, for example, to spy on EU representatives’ offices in Washington.

Click on the link, it takes you to the report that Applebaum refers to throughout the lecture.

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 04:07 PM
Jacques Vallee - The Network Revolution: Confessions of a Computer Scientist [introduction]
* Full ebook available for free on Google Books *

I am a Technologist corrupted by people contact.
I used to think Science had the solution
To communications between Humans.
One day I received a computerized letter beginning with:
Dear Dr. Mr.
I had lost my identity but I was still getting mail.
Is this my future?
Is it yours?

The world of which I serve as one architect
Threatens to be lonely and grave
It will be a misshapen universe
Where Science will be swamped by its own artifacts:
"They want well-trained Humans."
History is being made at the speed of light
Inside today's computers
Shaping our collective destiny.
No records are kept.
I am trying to save some of that experience
To ask where it may lead.

This book is a compendium
Of missing memory frames:
Forbidden facts of our Solid State
Erased by the Master Programmers.
We are corrupt technologists briefly recalling
The insights of Yesteryear.
When we discard these passing memories
The machine will rule without a thought
For the greed and the hope that made it all happen.

Prince, in the depths of Future
Lie the automata of your visions
Poised on the threshold of enchantment.
They sing a murky, entrancing song
To inform our questing brains:
No longer computers, not quite flesh and nerves,
Oversexed and oversold
They wait while we rush blindly.
I salute them in the brief instant
Before pushing the START button
On the console of your dreams"

Jacques Vallee - Palo Alto, May 1982

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 04:41 PM

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 04:42 PM
I wanted to add for what it is worth that, having had my head served to me by corsair's video, I don't know jack. For all I know, that's one of Constable's critters in that photo of Lago de Cote.

In some of my wilder ways of piecing things together, I once imagined that Constable's critters might be the form of conveyance which takes the insubstantial part of us to the Moon, ala Gurdjieff and "Moon-Food".

And I also think that although Persinger's helmet is way off base, that his EM network infrastructure idea must be already being messed with, right? That makes sense to me if there is such a thing. Seems like having access to a network like that in some form must be what gives some people the balls to realistically imagine things like "Narrative Disruptors". I dunno.

Constable hasn't been "debunked" has he? Or has he.

edit on 21-2-2014 by Bybyots because: .:.

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 05:04 PM

I wanted to add for what it is worth that, having had my head served to me by corsair's video, I don't know jack. For all I know, that's one of Constable's critters in that photo of Lago de Cote.

I personally think something along the lines of "critters" is totally viable and certainly doesn't contradict some of the more interesting finds of plasma physics. In that light--and keeping in mind the fairly recent deep sea finds that totally reorganize our concepts of "life"--it would go a long ways in explanatory power.

And I also think that although Persinger's helmet is way off base, that his EM network infrastructure idea must be already being messed with, right? That makes sense to me if there is such a thing. Seems like having access to a network like that in some form must be what gives some people the balls to realistically imagine things like "Narrative Disruptors". I dunno.

Constable hasn't been "debunked" has he? Or has he.

I have seen some worthy critiques of Constable, but not any convincing debunk. There may be some such, though. I've wondered that myself.

As far as Persinger's "helmet," of course it raises questions as to its overall validity. I hope I didn't come across as totally validating it. My position is that it only raises some interesting questions. However, it would seem to give some credence to your observations about sleep paralysis/migraine/epilepsy.

More of interest to me, is Persinger's "paranormal" and EM work which seems to have taken him in a whole new direction. Plus the fact that he seems to be taken quite seriously by many scientists AND the military-industrial complex.

There's something about EM that fascinates our greatest minds. What does it portend and how far has it evolved scientifically? Hard to say, but some of our most brilliant are pursuing it and have been for many decades.

edit on 21-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 05:23 PM

Life-Like Qualities of Plasma

Bohm, a leading expert in twentieth century plasma physics, observed in amazement that once electrons were in plasma, they stopped behaving like individuals and started behaving as if they were a part of a larger and interconnected whole. Although the individual movements of each electron appeared to be random, vast numbers of electrons were able to produce collective effects that were surprisingly well organized and appeared to behave like a life form. The plasma constantly regenerated itself and enclosed impurities in a wall in the same way that a biological organism, like the unicellular amoeba, might encase a foreign substance in a cyst. So amazed was Bohm by these life-like qualities that he later remarked that he frequently had the impression that the electron sea was "alive" and that plasma possessed some of the traits of living things. The debate on the existence of plasma-based life forms has been going on for more than 20 years ever since some models showed that plasma can mimic the functions of a primitive cell.

Plasma cosmologist, Donald Scott, notes that "...a [plasma] double layer can act much like a membrane that divides a biological cell". A model of plasma double layers (a structure commonly found in complex plasmas) has been used to investigate ion transport across biological cell membranes by researchers (See American Journal of Physics, May 2000, Volume 68, Issue 5, pp. 450-455). Researchers noted that "Concepts like charge neutrality, Debye length, and double layer [used in plasma physics] are very useful to explain the electrical properties of a cellular membrane".

Plasma physicist Hannes Alfvén also noted the association of double layers with cellular structure, as had Irving Langmuir before him, who coined the term "plasma" after its resemblance to living blood cells.

David Brin's Sundiver also speculated on plasma life forms. This science fiction proposed a form of life existing within the plasma atmosphere of a star using complex self-sustaining magnetic fields. Similar types of plasmoid life have been proposed to exist in other places, such as planetary ionospheres or interstellar space. Gregory Benford had a form of plasma-based life exist in the accretion disk of a primordial black hole in his novel Eater.
Plasma Life Forms in Space

An international scientific team has discovered that under the right conditions, particles of inorganic dust can become organized into helical structures which can interact with each other in ways that are usually associated with organic life.

Using a computer model of molecular dynamics, V N Tsytovich and his colleagues of the Russian Academy of Science showed that particles in plasma can undergo self-organization as electric charges become separated and the plasma becomes polarized in their paper entitled From Plasma Crystals and Helical Structures towards Inorganic Living Matter, published in the New Journal of Physics in August 2007.

Past studies, subject to Earth's gravity, have shown that if enough particles are injected into a low-temperature plasma, they will spontaneously organize into crystal-like structures or "plasma crystals".
Tsytovich's computer simulations suggest that in the gravity-free environment of space, the plasma particles will bead together to form string-like filaments which will then twist into helical strands resembling DNA that are electrically charged and are attracted to each other.

The helical structures undergo changes that are normally associated with biological molecules, such as DNA and proteins, say the researchers. They can, for instance, divide to form copies of the original structure; which then interact to induce changes in their neighbors that evolve into other new structures.

The less stable structures break down over time leaving behind only the structures that are most adapted to the environment. "These complex, self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter", says Tsytovich, "they are autonomous, they reproduce and they evolve". He adds that the ionized conditions needed to form these helical structures are common in outer space.


Relative to the majority of the deep sea, the areas around submarine hydrothermal vents are biologically more productive, often hosting complex communities fueled by the chemicals dissolved in the vent fluids. Chemosynthetic bacteria and archaea form the base of the food chain, supporting diverse organisms, including giant tube worms, clams, limpets and shrimp. Active hydrothermal vents are believed to exist on Jupiter's moon Europa, and ancient hydrothermal vents have been speculated to exist on Mars.

Hydrothermal vent

edit on 21-2-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 05:29 PM
Persinger also ran afoul of CSICOP and co with his latest stuff.

I don't ultimately know what we've stumbled across guys. All I do know is that we have one hell of a story on our hands.

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 06:43 PM
reply to post by The GUT

There's something about EM that fascinates our greatest minds. What does it portend and how far has it evolved scientifically? Hard to say, but some of our most brilliant are pursuing it and have been for many decades.

I understand, it's the desire to manipulate things by remote control or action-at-a-distance, and the intuition, the feedback I guess, from trying to figure out how seems to suggest to most, it has to me, that what must be involved is a field of some sort that apprehends all things simultaneously and if we could get control of it that we could achieve action-at-a-distance.

Fundamentally it must be some "information" that is being passed over some sort of "network". I absolutely do not consider it an indulgence to mix models from computer science and biology, and maybe that makes me a crank, but I have studied both at the same time formally and I see it.

It makes sense too, I'll find the quote and I have used it before, but I have always shared along with H.P. Lovecraft the belief that when the "real" magnitude and purpose of the giant biological machine that we are involved with is understood that we will likely go mad from the shock.

I'll dig up that quote.

edit on 21-2-2014 by Bybyots because: .:.

posted on Feb, 21 2014 @ 08:44 PM
Heyyy, I found it...

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents...

some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age.” ―

-H.P. Lovecraft, The Call Of Cthulhu Summer 1926

edit on 21-2-2014 by Bybyots because: .:.

posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 12:16 AM
reply to post by Bybyots

This is off-topic, but Is "Moon-Food" in Beelzebub's Tales? I haven't finished that yet, but I don't remember seeing it in Meetings or the recalled lecture notes volume.

For anyone not familiar with Gurdjieff, here's some good links to get you started:

posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 02:35 AM
reply to post by Autograf

Hi Autograf,

It's in chapter 43, and I think that your link is dead. I should also add that he doesn't call it the Moon, in B'sTtHG, Gurdjieff calls it Anulios, which is one of two of our Moons, according to him. So how far in to the books have you gotten?

edit on 22-2-2014 by Bybyots because: . : .

+3 more 
posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 12:16 PM
Been binge reading Vallee over the last couple days - got a lot out of it...

Re: The Frank Fontaine case - Vallee's book "Revelations" gives a very detailed outline of the case, including the denouement wherein Vallee tells how he discovered that the incident was not a hoax but was actually a psyops 'experiment' by a division of the French Ministry of Defense...
It was one of the two witnesses (Prevost - can't remember first name) who first formed a cult and then was apparently either hypnotized or coerced into 'confessing' that it had been a hoax. Fontaine was not hiding out somewhere, he had been kept somewhere drugged into unconsciousness...

And for those wondering who "Major Murphy" (pseudonym for the guy In "Revelations" who said UFOs should be an "intelligence" issue), it was not John Alexander, it was a retired military guy named, Colonel Floryan...

To anyone truly interested in understanding 'who' Jacque Vallee is, I highly, highly, recommend reading, "Forbidden Science II (The Revised Version).

I know it's been mentioned, but honestly you have to read it for yourself in order to really get a feel for the guy...He is an amazingly principled person with very high ideals.
The book, which is actually his personal journals from the 1970's, gives a very clear picture of Vallee's work both professionally (computer science) and in the UFO field...It also makes very clear Vallee's relationships with people like Hynek, Greene, Puthoff, etc..

There is so much info in this book...including Vallee's interest in the occult (strictly as an observer as he attempted to find clues to the 'supernatural' aspect of ufo phenomena). There's a lot of interesting stuff on the Nazi's occult beginnings and doings...really fascinating. It's amazing to see Vallee's determination to leave no stone unturned and no idea unconsidered in his investigations...

One thing that particularly stands out is Vallee's absolute insistence that he will not join any of the UFO 'organizations', nor would he be involved in any government 'groups'...He was determined to remain on his own when it came to investigation of UFO phenomena. One reason being that he was/is firmly convinced that the phenomena is paranormal in nature rather than extraterrestrial, and he expresses extreme frustration that none of the other 'players' in the field (with the exception of Hynek) will open their minds to this possibility.

Vallee never worked for any government agency. He was never with the CIA, NSA, or any other 'alphabet' guys. He worked for SRI on projects which were then later taken over by or utilized by various governmental departments.....

That may seem hard to believe, given everything written on the subject, but I promise you if you read this book, it becomes irrefutable...

Here's a link to a free download: Forbidden Science II Revised

Of course, we're still left wondering about the nature of Vallee's work with NIDS and Bigelow, because these journals end in 1980, but I have to say, reading "Forbidden Science II", I realized how much wheel spinning this thread has done on questions which the book fully answers...
Also, I dare anyone to read this book and not thoroughly enjoy 'getting to know' Vallee as just an absolutely delightful person...regardless his brilliance and insight into the UFO question...

edit on 22-2-2014 by lostgirl because: addendum

posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 03:12 PM
reply to post by Bybyots

Remove the period from the end of the link and it should work.

I have hard copies of all three I mentioned, finished the others, got about 30 pages into Tales. Tuff stuff. Took me a decade to find a copy though, so no hurry I figure.

posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 03:27 PM
Hi lostgirl,

Thanks for the heads up on revelations, I am really glad to have Jacques' version of the story as I have never read it before.

Here is the link to it on Scribd if anyone wants to read it. It's Chapter 5 "Purple Justice" and you can "ctrl-f" and put in "fontaine" and hit enter and it should take you to the vicinity of chapter 5 in the online text.

Thanks again, I am going to read and digest.


Here is the Anulios stuff...


posted on Feb, 22 2014 @ 11:43 PM

its nice to see you again in another immersive thread. Sometimes I am in awe or in confusion when I find the same members in the same threads as me that last a long time, when I see you I usually follow your links and read what you say, star you occasionally too. The last one was language of vampyr but not surprised to see you here and your insight is smack on friend as usual.

other members:
I came back in to this one to again suggest that information in ufology is certainly compromised in terms of credibility. At this point in this thread I am curious as much to ask what stake do participants have in making copy/paste claims of knowledge and real insight? I still find nothing compelling I read and re read ALL the links in the last 2 pages and nothing changes my mind. NOthing has anything to do with Vallee's control system and everything else is so far off topic that it really is a UFO argument about the ego then a discussion about a focused element. Why is this, members?
edit on 22-2-2014 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 09:06 AM
reply to post by Brotherman

It's because it all went WAY over your head and you haven't been paying careful enough attention.

Why is that, member?

posted on Feb, 23 2014 @ 10:01 AM
Coast to Coast AM - October 24 2010 - Jacques Vallee with George Knapp (manually transcribed, not copied and pasted)

G.K. You have said that this Control System theory of yours is testable. I'd like to know if you ever tested it and, if not, is it still doable?

J.V. I didn't mean necessarily that there was a supreme intelligence controlling it [the UFO phenomenon] or directing it. The phenomenon has the information characteristics of a control system. It comes in waves, it responds to certain things.

I've never published this but I will someday. As you know, one of the things I want to leave behind is a record of my own research called 'Forbidden Science'. I've published two volumes, so far, and they are not widely published but they are on record and I want to continue to do that.

In the 1990s I tried to create sort of an official thing like the ranch in Utah [Skinwalker Ranch]. This was of course before the events at the ranch. I tried to create a hot spot of information where I was hoping to sort of attract the phenomenon to be able to record it better. And it didn't give the results I was hoping for. It's not something you can just decide to engage with - at least I haven't found a way to do it. But it's worth continuing to try because there seems to be a form of consciousness behind it that is extremely subtle, has a great sense of humor, is completely ruthless - I mean I know from reading your book and actually being there what happened at Skinwalker Ranch. There is no simplistic explanation.

I've studied physics but I certainly don't consider myself a physicist. I'm trained in information science and in information science and logic you often have situations, even in mathematics, where you have contradictions in the material you're looking at. The solution is to go up a level. It's not to fight it and try to force it into a preconceived idea.

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