Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

JV's book on his own research
www.slideshare.net...

reply to post by Kantzveldt

The funny thing is that O'brian narrates a tale that when one of the triangular craft emerged from the vortex it clipped the upper branches of a nearby tree which he was shown, and they even appear to have a warning sign for that sort of thing...

Warning, ID assholes crossing? ! ?

LOL

Now that's something.

Kevin

Anton LaVey and R.A.W....??! Now GUTS cooking on all burners AND the steno!

The quote about the fake landing permeates UFOlogy and morphed into the Bluebeam "paranoia." Taken on it's own merits of logic, it would be a simple and cheap control move, given that all in guvment are monsters, that is... and I like to think that there are only a few who are total psychos... so far.

It is curious, though, that our space program was curtailed somewhat... we were poised for a move into the near solar system and then...what? Why? Budget? Harder than we thought? Public disinterest? All may be true, but perhaps the musings about control are valid as well.

Edit: Oh...interestin' pictogram KV... but perhaps it's a simple instruction manual on pagan Christmas tree decorations???

Edit x 5 due to data jam. And when J.V. does NOT raise his hand when the question of contact with higher intelligence is posed ... perhaps he thought THEY weren't necessarily smarter than he? That is a flip, funny remark but might hold truth.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

i like running with stories if they capture my imagination and correspond to my interests, it's like inflating a hot air balloon, rising up to the skies and enjoying the view, landing can be problematic of course if leaks begin to appear.

That was an awesome thing to post Kantzveldt. It really struck a chord with me; it's what I'm doing, too.

So, we have a "balloon system"?

Kantzveldt

That picti evokes, for me, the millennia spanning, ufologically persistent, pulsating ORB of history. Or a spiral.

The balloon vid, btw, was oddly compelling to me for some reason. I watched the whole thing through both versions of "My Beautiful Balloon." The thought hit me that if your balloon ever did leak, you would get where you were going just fine:


This is me, coming from the other direction:

Baddogma
Edit: Oh...interestin' pictogram KV... but perhaps it's a simple instruction manual on pagan Christmas tree decorations???

This is "woo" so take with a grain of salt of course. But I had an "insight" once (I do meditations that tend to bring things like this on regularly out of the blue) that these old pictograms are thought forms. They are anchored into this and if you're in the right state of mind and you look at them -- or better, touch them -- you get the whole ROTE as Bob Monroe would have called it, the giant thought-ball of information. At the time this came through, I was just blown away that it was so obvious, and that we haven't figured that out yet. The form is not entirely important, although it can carry meaning; more just the anchoring into form.

Then later I was thinking that we never wonder why someone paints 3 figures... half sorta sideways... that's it? Why not fill the wall with stuff? Why not make them all right side up, do we assume ancient people couldn't see straight? lol. That someone in a seriously altered state was painting these while creating a tulpa of it maybe should be apparent. I guess to a culture that doesn't believe in such things it just didn't occur to our people.

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reply to post by The GUT


I have complete confidence in you too...





reply to post by Bybyots


We have a system involving balloons it would seem, if one wishes to arrive at the Land of Oz.

reply to post by RedCairo


As a fellow "woo-er" I don't think it's inappropriate to note that one of the primary functions of the so - called physical universe is to act as a prism/transformer to modify raw awareness into conscuousness. Consciousness is always contextually based.

So your woo makes perfect sense to me!

Kev

reply to post by RedCairo


Well, Red, I'll see your "woo" and raise you a "zoing."

I think that take on pictograms makes more sense than all the crap written on them and theorized about combined.

I'd never let that escape my lips around my oh-so-rational academic a-hole friends (and frenemies, and the not-so-academic ones either, for that matter).

Waaaay back in my nearly endless undergrad days I floated an idea that, basically, aboriginal "magic" was their highly specialized version of "tech." That the old coots new more than us about consciousness and perhaps reality itself. I was victim of too many weekend chemical experiments, true, but I thought I had something... and even now, if cornered with a gun to head, I'd admit my gut feeling that it's a little true.

Anyway, I'm tempted to go to Tucson's West side and slap a palm on a pictogram and see... but I fear my intuition is too dull even IF your flash was right.

Kantzveldt
from the ancient Sumerian perspective that would be the Anzu bird, from the native American the Thunderbird, so in that sense the case has everything, nuts and bolt craft, perceptual distortion and shamanic/demonic possession type experience, mystical orbs, the works...i need to learn how to summon an Anzu bird

I think that you would need to do a rain dance for starters

The Anzu bird is great example of the role mythology plays in establishing 'control systems', thinking in terms of the theft of the Tablets of Destiny and the Mes, the transfer of power documented in Marduk taking them back and suppressing Tiamet, extrapolating that to Moses and the Commandments...it's all there.

We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers,
And sitting by desolate streams;—
World-losers and world-forsakers, 5
On whom the pale moon gleams:
Yet we are the movers and shakers
Of the world for ever, it seems.


With wonderful deathless ditties
We build up the world's great cities, 10
And out of a fabulous story
We fashion an empire's glory:
One man with a dream, at pleasure,
Shall go forth and conquer a crown;
And three with a new song's measure 15
Can trample a kingdom down.


We, in the ages lying
In the buried past of the earth,
Built Nineveh with our sighing,
And Babel itself in our mirth; 20
And o'erthrew them with prophesying
To the old of the new world's worth;
For each age is a dream that is dying,
Or one that is coming to birth.


A breath of our inspiration 25
Is the life of each generation;
A wondrous thing of our dreaming
Unearthly, impossible seeming—
The soldier, the king, and the peasant
Are working together in one, 30
Till our dream shall become their present,
And their work in the world be done.


They had no vision amazing
Of the goodly house they are raising;
They had no divine foreshowing 35
Of the land to which they are going:
But on one man's soul it hath broken,
A light that doth not depart;
And his look, or a word he hath spoken,
Wrought flame in another man's heart. 40


And therefore to-day is thrilling
With a past day's late fulfilling;
And the multitudes are enlisted
In the faith that their fathers resisted,
And, scorning the dream of to-morrow, 45
Are bringing to pass, as they may,
In the world, for its joy or its sorrow,
The dream that was scorned yesterday.


But we, with our dreaming and singing,
Ceaseless and sorrowless we! 50
The glory about us clinging
Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing:
O men! it must ever be
That we dwell, in our dreaming and singing, 55
A little apart from ye.


For we are afar with the dawning
And the suns that are not yet high,
And out of the infinite morning
Intrepid you hear us cry— 60
How, spite of your human scorning,
Once more God's future draws nigh,
And already goes forth the warning
That ye of the past must die.


Great hail! we cry to the comers 65
From the dazzling unknown shore;
Bring us hither your sun and your summers;
And renew our world as of yore;
You shall teach us your song's new numbers,
And things that we dreamed not before: 70
Yea, in spite of a dreamer who slumbers,
And a singer who sings no more.

en.wikisource.org...(O%27Shaughnessy)

KellyPrettyBear
Now concentric circles? Beats the !&^^&^&_=÷ out of me.

Seriously? It's easy peasy...two things obsessed humanity in the transisition between Paleolithic to Neolithic; cycles and boundaries. Circles within circles represent the cycles within cycles within cycles...and so on and so forth. They were so incredibly aware of their environment and their place within it, defining it gave them a sense of control...and "so it goes".

The GUT
Here's an interesting tidbit albeit second hand: Robert Anton Wilson makes UFO smalltalk with Jacques Vallee at--of all places--Crowleymas!

He gave in gracefully. "They relate to space-time in ways for which we have, at present, no concepts," he said. "They cannot explain to us because we are not ready to understand."...

I really enjoyed this post...and the above, how that ties into Carl Sagan's Contact, but also, for me, what I said in one of your other threads about the Pons region of the brain...this really has me thinking about that. The reason for that being how such manifestation change with the 'times' dependent, perhaps, on the imaginative scope. However, what RAW and Vallee are discussing here really reminded me of the condition that the writer Wilkie Collins suffered from, Subjective Doubles Syndrome...

The syndrome of subjective doubles is a rare delusional misidentification syndrome in which a person experiences the delusion that he or she has a double or Doppelgänger with the same appearance, but usually with different character traits, that is leading a life of its own.[1][2] The syndrome is also called the syndrome of doubles of the self,[3] delusion of subjective doubles,[1] or simply subjective doubles.[4] Sometimes, the patient is under the impression that there is more than one double.[1] A double may be projected onto any person, from a stranger to a family member.[4]

This syndrome is often diagnosed during or after the onset of another mental disorder, such as schizophrenia or other disorders involving psychotic hallucinations.[5] There is no widely accepted method of treatment, as most patients require an individualized therapy. The prevalence of this disease is relatively low, as few cases have been reported since the disease was defined in 1978 by George Christodoulou.[5][6] However, subjective doubles is not clearly defined in literature,[7] and therefore, may be under-reported.[5]

en.wikipedia.org...

I am, at this point, not entirely sure why I should think of that...other than the Sagan connection, combined with the psychotropic pathways...but given the subjectivity of perception generally, both in terms of responses to external and internal stimuli, I think it may be because of what Vallee says about there being a comprehension deficit on our part.

Anyways, thanks for the food for thought. Very interesting that.

After several days, I finally got through every page of this. I have nothing really to add but that this is a fascinating thread. Thank you to the many participants. I don't post in them often, but TGut thread's are always a good read. My prayers and condolences to you and your family, good sir.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Ya' know, I flip-flop quite a bit on what we might be dealing with or looking at.

Sometimes I'm fairly convinced that we are dealing with mysteries of our own consciousness and ours alone.

Most times, these days, I'm fairly certain that there is another non-human consciousness that sometimes winks into our business before blinking out and stepping back, yet again, behind the veil.

Like Jacques, I suspect, it matters not too much as we gaze into the phenomenon. Most of us aren't trying to force an answer that suits us but, rather, quite amenable to try and follow/deduce the evidence wherever it leads. I tend to think that was the basic gist of any attempted "science" experiment aimed at "introducing perturbations" into the feedback loop of the control system theory.

I am rather convinced that some our clues/answers lay in the more mysterious aspects of electromagnetism. We have empirical evidence that things can get wonky when the mind and body is subjected to various field effects.



While I'm not totally on board with Albert Budden's thesis, I do find it a worthy read and quite possible in it's own right, it's also chock-full of interesting information and case studies. From the blurb at Amazon:

Alien abductions, ghostly visitations, and destructive entities from astral planes these events really be the bizarre outcome of electromagnetic pollution? Field-emitting devices such as power lines litter our environment, possibly affecting our bodies, minds, and sensory abilities.

Fully researched and full of fascinating scientific data and first-hand accounts, this terrifying portrait of electromagnetic pollution may change your view about the world around us. It covers health issues, such as asthma and other life-threatening illnesses resulting from, or made worse by, power fields...

See why the effects of electrical bombardment are particularly pernicious during sleep (when many so-called abductions occur); what effect power surges can have on us; how exposure to multiple types of electrical fields have especially dire consequences; which physical phenomena have been found at "haunted" locations; and what scientific studies reveal about unclassified atmospheric phenomena. Those power lines, electric lights, and meters will never look harmless again…

Book Link: Electric Ufos: Fireballs, Electromagnetics and Abnormal States

If it did turn out to be "just us," then is it even possible for a system (consciousness) to figure itself out? Or would we be too "looped" to dissect consciousness with consciousness?

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


EZ Peasey to you perhaps, but it's not compelling.
I also love to discuss ancient atronomical observations
including the precession of the equinoxes.. the meaning
of pole stars and how that relates to mythology and the
formation of religion.

But I don't find all that talk 'conclusive' just highly possible.

Kevin

Valerie Ransone was also hanging out with Gordon Cooper according to Bekkum's book.

That was a great radio piece GUT.

I enjoyed the broadcast very much; I'd never tuned in to one before.

I was a little taken aback at how young your voice sounded!

1ofthe9
Valerie Ransone was also hanging out with Gordon Cooper according to Bekkum's book.

Astronaut, Gordon Cooper, if I recall correctly, actually gave Ms. Ransone credit for receiving "channelled" information that exactly described the problems that resulted in the incineration of Space Shuttle Discovery and crew prior to the disaster. Does his tale carry weight? Hard to say. Ms. Ransone remains rather mysterious and intriguing, however. Connected to Cooper, Kit Green, Andrija Puharich & his "Space Kids," and by extension, Vallee, who also mentions her in Forbidden Science, Journal II.