Why God Exist!!!?

Itisnowagain

edmc^2

Why do we exist?

If "nothing" created us then why do we exist?

Why do we have a mind that can travel through space-time if "nothing" created us?

Who created the mind?

The mind dreams that it travels through space and time but you never move.
You are always here and now. All is passing by.

The mind is just stories about before and after, it speaks of other times but it is just ever changing scenery.

It is a total mystery to why there is seemingly something happening.

edit on 20-11-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Why is there a big difference between what we dream and what we obseerve when we are awake. Why cant we do the same things when we are awake?

Our mind is bound to to flesh and its surroundings when we are awake. But when we dream, our flesh is in a imaginary setting within the mind.

reply to post by edmc^2

It matters because once we come to know where it came from, its origin, "thoughts - the ability to fathom the unfathomable" then we will arrive as to the reason of its existence.

In other words, the foundation of knowing and understanding the meaning of our existence is knowing its origin - where did it all came from?

This is the fundamental truth in unlocking our existence.

Hence, "out of something (or someone eternal) comes something".

Otherwise the alternative is to accept the illogical - "out of nothing (non-existent), comes something."

I have two points to make here.

First, check my previous post. It has significant bearing on what you just posted.

Second, you seem to be forgetting one thing. In the hypothetical event that we were created, just because it were so, does not mean our fate is mandated. We can choose our own path. Unless free will is a lie, we have the power to avert our course at any time. Or we have the option to change our understanding and comprehension of it. In either event, we have exercised our control over our existence. Whether it be an act, a thought, or a pause, we have control over our existence. I could go into the kitchen right now and grab a knife and plunge it into my heart. Or I could go outside and hug a random stranger. Or I could empty my bank account and find the nearest fastfood joint and dump that cash in a Human Society fund jar or something. I have the power to make it or break it. We all do. Even if it's just adjusting how we look at the world around us. The mere act of converting someone from one religion to another, indoctrinating an undecided, or shaking someone's faith is proof that we have the power to change the world. The refusal to stop exploring and keep making new connections gave birth to cellphones, airplanes, medicine, the internet...we're the first species in recorded history ever to leave this planet. We've sent eyes out to the corners of the solar system. We have astronauts floating in space right now, in control and free of the rock that gave life to them.

Look at how much control we have established over our world and ourselves. Look at the miracles we have created, just as much by what we are as by what we have. Look at how we got this far. And so long as we possess that control, our fate is not mandated.

The only other option is that free will is effectively an illusion, and we are just drones playing a predetermined game of chess. In which case, you may as well lie down and die. After all, you couldn't do that unless it was predetermined.

edmc^2
All I can say is this:

Since the material universe according to latest calculation is 13+ billion years old thus IT is finite. As such it had a "beginning" and is expanding, hence not absolute and not infinite.

I thought the objects and bodies in the universe are moving apart therefore expanding... but since we can not see the edge of the universe or know it has an end, how can this age be determined?

maybe the universe existed and the mass inside the universe had a big bang?

how can we be so sure... if there is limits to the observable universe?

... in other words, the empty space/area outside of the depiction of the universe in the image you posted... what is it expanding into?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


For it to exist you have to agree that there must be a infinite?
You wouldnt even have been able to use it as an example if it wasnt.
We wouldnt be able to communicate if this nett wasnt physically hooked up.

SisyphusRide

edmc^2
All I can say is this:

Since the material universe according to latest calculation is 13+ billion years old thus IT is finite. As such it had a "beginning" and is expanding, hence not absolute and not infinite.

I thought the objects and bodies in the universe are moving apart therefore expanding... but since we can not see the edge of the universe or know it has an end, how can this be determined?

maybe the universe existed and the mass inside the universe had a big bang?

how can we be so sure... if there is limits to the observable universe?

... in other words, the empty space/area outside of the depiction of the universe in the image you posted.

edit on 20-11-2013 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

We havent really measured the whole universe. We have just measured 13+ billion years worth, of it. Our universe is much much bigger. Our universe expands faster than the radio signal used to measure.

We will never see the edge ever.


It has been observed that stars, planets and galaxies are expanding equaly in all directions at the same time. This is do to the mater that make up the space between the stars, planets and galagsies are expanding as well, and pushing the bodies appart. More correct put is that the expanding matter between the bodies are creating more space between the bodies. Because the dark matter is expansing rapidly and creating more space.

This can only be done if the pressure surrounding our universe "the singularity" is a stronger vacuum. This means that the space surrounding our universe is even closer to a absolute vacuum than the space that makes up the space within the singularity "our universe".

spy66
We havent really measured the whole universe. We have just measured 13+ billion years worth, of it. Our universe is much much bigger. Our universe expands faster than the radio signal used to measure.

We will never see the edge ever.

then this is speculation no? the current incarnation has been expanding 13+BY, but if we will never ever see the end, then how can we measure anything but our observable distance.

It has been observed that stars, planets and galaxies are expanding equaly in all directions at the same time. This is do to the mater that make up the space between the stars, planets and galagsies are expanding as well, and pushing the bodies appart.

This can only be done if the pressure surrounding our universe "the singularity" is a stronger vacuum. This means that the space surrounding our universe is even closer to a absolute vacuum that the space that makes up the space within the singularity "our universe".

the mass is expanding into something... is it overtaking area which already exists?

to me that's the "universe" the noble gasses between the galaxies (interstellar space), not the mass that comprise the galaxies.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by SisyphusRide

how can we be so sure... if there is limits to the observable universe?

The point of "beginning", the "singularity" implies limits. That is there was a point in time in space-time where the material universe did not exist. Then as they say, the "big-bang" occurred. E=mc2 happened, the universe appeared and ever so expanding outward space-time continuum.

That's how we know it.

But to me, "big-bang" is a misnomer or even the "singularity" is a misnomer for the fact that the emergence of the material universe IS NOT chaotic but highly organized, orderly to the highest mathematical degree. Not only that, it moves along established physical laws.

It amazingly obeys laws present in the universe. Such as:

1. Gravity
2. Electromagnetism
3. Strong nuclear force
4. Weak nuclear force

To quote the findings:

“If at some point in the past, the Universe was once close to a singular state of infinitely small size and infinite density, we have to ask what was there before and what was outside the Universe. . . . We have to face the problem of a Beginning.”
...

. “If the Universe had expanded one million millionth part faster, then all the material in the Universe would have dispersed by now. . . . And if it had been a million millionth part slower, then gravitational forces would have caused the Universe to collapse within the first thousand million years or so of its existence. Again, there would have been no long-lived stars and no life.” - Sir Bernard Lovell

“With lower gravity the stars would be smaller, and the pressure of gravity in their interiors would not drive the temperature high enough for nuclear fusion reactions to get under way: the sun would be unable to shine.” -- Dr. Reinhard Breuer

“Make the weak force slightly stronger and no helium would have been produced; make it slightly weaker and nearly all the hydrogen would have been converted into helium.” “The window of opportunity for a universe in which there is some helium and there are also exploding supernovas is very narrow. Our existence depends on this combination of coincidences, and on the even more dramatic coincidence of nuclear energy levels predicted by [astronomer Fred] Hoyle. Unlike all previous generations, we know how we come to be here. But, like all previous generations, we still do not know why.” -- New Scientist.

What more can we say?

Except that a highly organized universe implies intelligence of the highest magnitude!

Otherwise, the alternative is accept nothing - or "we don't know".

reply to post by SisyphusRide

then this is speculation no? the current incarnation has been expanding 13+BY, but if we will never ever see the end, then how can we measure anything but our observable distance.

Yes, the true age of our universe is nothing but a calculated speculation. Our scientists can not measure more than what their techonlogy will let them. That is common sense.

But some people will confuse the accuracy of the age with what has been measured. Remember they have only measured the acurate age out to 13+.

That is why you have to read scientific data very carefully to pic these things up.

the mass is expanding into something... is it overtaking area which already exists?

to me that's the "universe" the noble gasses between the galaxies (interstellar space), not the mass that comprise the galaxies.

en.wikipedia.org...

Our universe is both the noble gasses and the stars, planets and galaxies. This is the singularity. The singularity didnt disappear after the Big Bang. It expanded and got bigger keep that in mind.

if we go along with the big bang, then to laymen like me it would seem that...

the big bang already happened, this explosion has a finite size based in the mass contained, and that the galaxies are a result of the condensation of said ejected mass.

we are still seeing stars and galaxies form... but we are not seeing the space between the galaxies being created from nothing.

so the universe is finite

AfterInfinity
reply to post by edmc^2

 

It matters because once we come to know where it came from, its origin, "thoughts - the ability to fathom the unfathomable" then we will arrive as to the reason of its existence.

In other words, the foundation of knowing and understanding the meaning of our existence is knowing its origin - where did it all came from?

This is the fundamental truth in unlocking our existence.

Hence, "out of something (or someone eternal) comes something".

Otherwise the alternative is to accept the illogical - "out of nothing (non-existent), comes something."

I have two points to make here.

First, check my previous post. It has significant bearing on what you just posted.

Second, you seem to be forgetting one thing. In the hypothetical event that we were created, just because it were so, does not mean our fate is mandated. We can choose our own path. Unless free will is a lie, we have the power to avert our course at any time. Or we have the option to change our understanding and comprehension of it. In either event, we have exercised our control over our existence. Whether it be an act, a thought, or a pause, we have control over our existence. I could go into the kitchen right now and grab a knife and plunge it into my heart. Or I could go outside and hug a random stranger. Or I could empty my bank account and find the nearest fastfood joint and dump that cash in a Human Society fund jar or something. I have the power to make it or break it. We all do. Even if it's just adjusting how we look at the world around us. The mere act of converting someone from one religion to another, indoctrinating an undecided, or shaking someone's faith is proof that we have the power to change the world. The refusal to stop exploring and keep making new connections gave birth to cellphones, airplanes, medicine, the internet...we're the first species in recorded history ever to leave this planet. We've sent eyes out to the corners of the solar system. We have astronauts floating in space right now, in control and free of the rock that gave life to them.

Look at how much control we have established over our world and ourselves. Look at the miracles we have created, just as much by what we are as by what we have. Look at how we got this far. And so long as we possess that control, our fate is not mandated.

The only other option is that free will is effectively an illusion, and we are just drones playing a predetermined game of chess. In which case, you may as well lie down and die. After all, you couldn't do that unless it was predetermined.

edit on 20-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Who said, that our fate is "mandated"?

I don't agree with that premise. To quote your signature: "There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

We have free-will, yes but up to a certain degree. It has limits and boundaries as it has to obey laws. Otherwise you will suffer the consequence and affect others.

Thus, even though there is free-will, it is relative.

You have the freedom to jump a ten story building but that freedom is bounded by the law of gravity.

It's not an illusion! It's real and I suggest that you don't think of it that way.

edmc^2
Otherwise, the alternative is accept nothing - or "we don't know".

it is not of the scientific mind to accept that... it is illogical to quit.

thanks for the post...

spy66
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

then this is speculation no? the current incarnation has been expanding 13+BY, but if we will never ever see the end, then how can we measure anything but our observable distance.

Yes, the true age of our universe is nothing but a calculated speculation. Our scientists can not measure more than what their techonlogy will let them. That is common sense.

But some people will confuse the accuracy of the age with what has been measured. Remember they have only measured the acurate age out to 13+.

That is why you have to read scientific data very carefully to pic these things up.

so "we see" the universe as 13 billion years old...

it's very different than saying the universe "is" 13 billion years old...

how can science be so misleading? is it on purpose to generate interest...?

reply to post by edmc^2


One thing is not proof of another thing.

A is not proof of B.

A tree is not proof of unicorns.

The universe is not proof of God.

An actual God would be proof of (a) God.

Some footprints found in mud would only be evidence.

apologies... there is evidence

is this the best ATS has for scientific minds? aggressive atheists?

It would be more productive to refute what I said as opposed to focusing attention on me or the other posters.

That would be a red herring and an ad hominen.

Especially accussing "us" of being "aggressive" when I was merely giving a counter opinion to the OP's.

Having differing opnions makes no one "aggressive."

from my observations those who claim to be the most scientific are in fact not scientific at all...

From my observations you are still diverting attention away from what I said. Refute that first.

the theists on ATS are way more scientific (specially in astrophysics and philosophy)

Neat.

LewsTherinThelamon

is this the best ATS has for scientific minds? aggressive atheists?

It would be more productive to refute what I said as opposed to focusing attention on me or the other posters.

That would be a red herring and an ad hominen.

Especially accussing "us" of being "aggressive" when I was merely giving a counter opinion to the OP's.

Having differing opnions makes no one "aggressive."

from my observations those who claim to be the most scientific are in fact not scientific at all...

From my observations you are still diverting attention away from what I said. Refute that first.

the theists on ATS are way more scientific (specially in astrophysics and philosophy)

Neat.

edit on 20-11-2013 by LewsTherinThelamon because: (no reason given)

I edited my post after I thought on it a second... I reacted on impulse and am on the defensive.

there is evidence of a Creator

SisyphusRide
if we go along with the big bang, then to laymen like me it would seem that...

the big bang already happened, this explosion has a finite size based in the mass contained, and that the galaxies are a result of the condensation of said ejected mass.

so the universe is finite

You do know from what you say above that there never could have been a BANG right?

You do seam to know that the singularity was very hot since you mention condensation.

Just that should tell you something very important about the space surrounding the singularity and why the singularity can expand outwards in volume.

reply to post by SisyphusRide

there is evidence of a Creator

I am not saying that there is no evidence.

If we found proof that big foot exists, that would mean that we found a living specimen.

So A is proof of A.

The universe is not proof of the existence of God.

An actual God would be proof of a God.
Whatever an actual God would be.

LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

there is evidence of a Creator

I am not saying that there is no evidence.

If we found proof that big foot exists, that would mean that we found a living specimen.

So A is proof of A.

The universe is not proof of the existence of God.

An actual God would be proof of a God.
Whatever an actual God would be.

the complexity and precision are proof of intelligent design...

as we understand intelligence

reply to post by edmc^2

Who said, that our fate is "mandated"?

You seemed to be implying that we have a preordained purpose.