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Why God Exist!!!?

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posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 10:22 PM
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The universe does have a beginning. About thirteen point seven billion years ago, all matter and antimatter was contained within a dense, zero-dimensional singularity which then exploded creating everything we know today. And since zero-dimensional objects do not have to follow the laws of physics, the big bang did not need a cause for an effect to occur. Any high-school kid who took an astronomy course could tell you this.

As for existence before the universe, try to see it this way... imagine a star in its dying phase. It puffs off layers of matter before finally becoming a white dwarf. Now imagine that the star is our universe, that every star in the cosmos is a universe. The dead universe (star) will eventually coalesce, gathering more matter to it over eons and eons, until eventually, the cycle begins anew. It's just a cycle, my friend, and we're part of a much bigger existence than we know. There's no need for a god to explain it, much like there's no need for a god to explain the beginning of each day.




posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon
 


Sure blame the manufacturer for pilot error.

As for you problem with chocking while drinking. You must be one of the very few who has this problem. May I suggest drink in small qty or use a straw.

Anyway, not that I don't want to continue this discussion but it's getting off topic.

So I'll stop here.







posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 



Sure blame the manufacturer for pilot error.


We really need to work on understanding each other.

If we were created by an "intelligent designer" that means that choking deaths could have been fixed by separating the esophagus and larynx. If someone mistakenly chokes, it is God's fault for implementing a poor design.

If you create a car that is poorly designed where your occupants could get into an accident because of your design...you would be an incompetent designer.

It's not hard to wrap your head around. God sucks at engineering...or he's a teenager playing The Sims.



posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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alistairlowary
The universe does have a beginning. About thirteen point seven billion years ago, all matter and antimatter was contained within a dense, zero-dimensional singularity which then exploded creating everything we know today. And since zero-dimensional objects do not have to follow the laws of physics, the big bang did not need a cause for an effect to occur. Any high-school kid who took an astronomy course could tell you this.

As for existence before the universe, try to see it this way... imagine a star in its dying phase. It puffs off layers of matter before finally becoming a white dwarf. Now imagine that the star is our universe, that every star in the cosmos is a universe. The dead universe (star) will eventually coalesce, gathering more matter to it over eons and eons, until eventually, the cycle begins anew. It's just a cycle, my friend, and we're part of a much bigger existence than we know. There's no need for a god to explain it, much like there's no need for a god to explain the beginning of each day.


The question has nothing to do with what you said:


There's no need for a god to explain it, much like there's no need for a god to explain the beginning of each day.



Rather:

Should not the existence of "something" uncreated and infinite proves the existence of "someone" uncreated and infinite - God?

For example, we know that spacetime is both uncreated and infinite, that "IT" always existed. Yet why is this NOT proof enough of the existence of an incorporeal uncreated and infinite being - God?

In other words, why accept/believe that spacetime exist but not God?

How could spacetime exist and not God?



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:01 AM
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LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by edmc^2
 



Sure blame the manufacturer for pilot error.


We really need to work on understanding each other.

If we were created by an "intelligent designer" that means that choking deaths could have been fixed by separating the esophagus and larynx. If someone mistakenly chokes, it is God's fault for implementing a poor design.

If you create a car that is poorly designed where your occupants could get into an accident because of your design...you would be an incompetent designer.

It's not hard to wrap your head around. God sucks at engineering...or he's a teenager playing The Sims.


If you were given everything on a platter it would take all the fun out of it. If your are not smart enough to chew your food good enough, your not paying attention. Don't fall asleep with mouth full of food.

I would not mock the Creator my friend, you might get a rude awakening. You have no ideal of the Perfect Balance, of Existence.

I would not look in the mirror Brother, I would get down on my knees and pray to gain, that which you have not.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:10 AM
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LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by edmc^2
 



Sure blame the manufacturer for pilot error.


We really need to work on understanding each other.

If we were created by an "intelligent designer" that means that choking deaths could have been fixed by separating the esophagus and larynx. If someone mistakenly chokes, it is God's fault for implementing a poor design.

If you create a car that is poorly designed where your occupants could get into an accident because of your design...you would be an incompetent designer.

It's not hard to wrap your head around. God sucks at engineering...or he's a teenager playing The Sims.


Gods design is exactly how he wanted it to be. If not God would have designed us differently. It dosent matter how you argue aginst it.

As i said earlier. If we were to be a perfect design according to our standards. Everything else that exists must be perfected as well.
The whole univere is a design. Evoltion is the whole universeal design set in motion over time.
The singularity is much like a designed seed that brought forth our univers so that everything would have a meaning, A place to be. According to design. You can not argue against it. Because it is a complicated system set in motion.

Everything that was ment to be; appeard exactly on time. But you would probably dissagree because you say there is a flaw in the design.

If we were to be perfected according to our standard and our intellligence, the singularity would have had to been altered to make that possible. But we did not create the complicated system we exist in. The system was created for us and all living things. We have the right to complain and critizise it. But evolution dosent fallow our standard, our intelligence or our will. Probably because it is a design with a different intelligent goal than we have.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by spy66
 



Everything that was ment to be; appeard exactly on time. But you would probably dissagree because you say there is a flaw in the design.


My whole point: there was no designer. We were not designed. We evolved.

The connection of the esophagus and larynx is evidence of at least three possibilites. To me, it points to these scenarios:

1. God is incompetent.
2. God is cruel
3. God did not create us.

Because, really, there is no divine plan for something as retarded as the connection between the larynx and esophagus. Unless random asphyxiations were the plan. I mean, it's basic engineering. But people want to be the "perfect creation of a loving benefactor" so no matter how much logic you present--we wind up in a dance that looks like some form of mental gymnastics.

And your argument that "everything is as it is so it's perfect" is invalid. Everything can be "as it is" and be imperfect. Maybe some things could be perfect and others imperfect. Maybe everything is neither perfect nor imperfect.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 





I read about 2 methods used... the first one deals with Hubble's constant and Einstein's cosmological constant, which Einstein abandon as his biggest blunder after or right around the time Hubble determined the galaxies were flying away from eachother.


Very good. I do notice that you say that the galaxies are flying away from eachother. They are not really flying away from eachother. The space between the galaxies are expanding "gaining volune". This is why the galaxies are drifting apart from eachother. They are drifting equally in all directions at the same time because the volume of space between all the galaxies are gaining volume.
If you read up on dark matter this will be mentioned.

If we retract the expansion of expaned space. this means emittted energies and everything else as well. we know that the galaxies and all emitted energies must have been bunshed up at som point in the past. Therefor the singularity is a very likely past event.

How this mass started out as a singularity is the big mistery to some.

"If you hold up your cup of coffy and imagine that it is the singularity", and the room your in represents the infinite volume of space the singularity is in. You can ask your self: How can the volume of this empty space, in this room create this mass???

If the room is a volume of absolute infinite empty space. How long would you have to wait for the cup to be created?

..........................................

Why is the space surrounding the singularity absolut empty?

If you learn to understand how our present universe can expand you will know, that the space surrounding the singularity must be absolt empty.

Than you will learn to know that there was never å explosion A Big Bang, But a compression. Only a compression could fom the mass/ the cup. Your cup/our universe consists of compressed energy.

Only the energy from the absolute empty space can create the cup. Because this space is infinite and absolute empty. There are no other sources present in or out side the infinite.

Just because the infinite is absolutely empty of finite particles/time. Does not mean there is no energy present. Its just that the energy of the absolute empty infinite sapce is absolutely neutral. Only a absolutely neutral volume of space can be infinite. There are no finite time present there.

Some argue that this space cant exist. That is only ture within our universe, and our vacuumes. So dont pay much attention to those arguments.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by spy66
 



Gods design is exactly how he wanted it to be. If not God would have designed us differently. It dosent matter how you argue aginst it.


This is supposed to mean that a design can't be flawed?


As i said earlier. If we were to be a perfect design according to our standards. Everything else that exists must be perfected as well.


I would argue that there are sound, universal design standards.
What purpose could the connection between the larynx and esophagus serve other than asphyxiation of the system?


The whole univere is a design. Evoltion is the whole universeal design set in motion over time.


So, that would pretty much back up my entire point. If we are the product of evolution, that would explain why our bodies contain design flaws. Maybe you should try studying engineering. If a design implemented by an engineer could harm the system the engineer is building--his or her design is flawed. The connection between the larynx and esophagus is a flawed design (if we are the product of "intelligent design").

If we are the result of evolution, then these "design flaws" would make more sense.


The singularity is much like a designed seed that brought forth our univers so that everything would have a meaning, A place to be. According to design.


OK.



You can not argue against it. Because it is a complicated system set in motion.


"It's complicated, I don't understand it so that means you can't possibly understand it and, therefore, cannot argue agaisnt it. But I can argue against you. Even if I just said it's too complicated for my comprehension."

This pretty much proves your dogmatic point-of-view. It doesn't matter what is objectively true, if you deem it "too complicated" you'll just tell people they "can't argue against it."

So your position could be false, but that wouldn't matter if the truth is "too complicated" to argue against the invalid. Makes perfect sense.


Everything that was ment to be; appeard exactly on time. But you would probably dissagree because you say there is a flaw in the design.


It's meant to be = impossible for design flaws. And yet, if we are the result of intelligent design, we are suffering from design flaws.

I think we should change the phrase for intelligent design to incompetent design. It would be far more accurate.


If we were to be perfected according to our standard and our intellligence, the singularity would have had to been altered to make that possible.


"If it's only 'our' standard I can properly ignore you."

I would wager both my testicles that any being with intelligence, that understands engineering and design, would deem the connection between the larynx and esophagus a bad design under the hypothetical assumption that we are the product of "intelligent design."

And, to clarify, I am arguing against the concept of an anthropromorphic deity (like Yahweh, Allah, or Odin) creating us. Not evolution.

Our "design flaws" logically point to us being the result of evolution. Because the randomness involved with evolution would cause seemingly "poor designs" in some instances.


But we did not create the complicated system we exist in.


So, obviously we wouldn't have the intelligence to point out design flaws.


The system was created for us and all living things.


Don't forget the non-living things.


We have the right to complain and critizise it. But evolution dosent fallow our standard, our intelligence or our will.


"You can raise objections to the inherent lack of logic in the phrase 'intelligent design' but I'll just use red herrings and call it 'complaining.' Don't worry, though. You have the right to complain (only because this is the internet and I can't really stop you), and it is proper of you to infer that I have the authority to issue this right to all of creation, but I don't really think you have the right to use logic and point out any of the objective flaws in our bodies. The universe doesn't follow 'our' standard, so your wrong anyway."

Don't mind me, I'm just paraphrasing.


it is a design with a different intelligent goal than we have.


Yes. Asphyxiation of the human system.

Unless, of course, there is no goal.

Or, I like how you refute my claim that the connection between the larynx and esophagus is not a bad design because the "universe has a different goal in mind." Well, the universe can have whatever goal it wants. I don't really care. It's goals wouldn't change the fact that it's a bad design, and your mental gymnastics don't either.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 09:14 AM
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LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by spy66
 



Everything that was ment to be; appeard exactly on time. But you would probably dissagree because you say there is a flaw in the design.


My whole point: there was no designer. We were not designed. We evolved.

The connection of the esophagus and larynx is evidence of at least three possibilites. To me, it points to these scenarios:

1. God is incompetent.
2. God is cruel
3. God did not create us.

Because, really, there is no divine plan for something as retarded as the connection between the larynx and esophagus. Unless random asphyxiations were the plan. I mean, it's basic engineering. But people want to be the "perfect creation of a loving benefactor" so no matter how much logic you present--we wind up in a dance that looks like some form of mental gymnastics.

And your argument that "everything is as it is so it's perfect" is invalid. Everything can be "as it is" and be imperfect. Maybe some things could be perfect and others imperfect. Maybe everything is neither perfect nor imperfect.






My whole point: there was no designer. We were not designed. We evolved.


I do agree that the whole universe and all life within it evolved over time. But that there is no designer is just one opinion against another. It has never been disproved that our universe with all life included is not not part of a design.

For you to argue with sound facts that our universe and all life within it is not a design. You would first have to know and prove how the singularity was formed. If you dont know this, you have no argument to show up with. If you know for a fact how the singularity was formed and not designed. You would be the man of the year.


edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 10:44 AM
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spy66
Very good. I do notice that you say that the galaxies are flying away from eachother. They are not really flying away from eachother. The space between the galaxies are expanding "gaining volune".

very true... it's odd that I expressed it like that. I guess it was because I was reading about Hubble and that is the way it appears to him upon discovery.



"If you hold up your cup of coffy and imagine that it is the singularity", and the room your in represents the infinite volume of space the singularity is in. You can ask your self: How can the volume of this empty space, in this room create this mass???

If the room is a volume of absolute infinite empty space. How long would you have to wait for the cup to be created?


ah ha! but it did'nt... see the coffee was made in another room, the kitchen... and it was brought into my infinite volume



..........................................


did you know that the connection of the esophagus and larynx is evidence that god does not exist???

man it seems we're running out of ideas and coming up with anything now a days to avoid the truth and facts as we comprehend them.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 





did you know that the connection of the esophagus and larynx is evidence that god does not exist??? man it seems we're running out of ideas and coming up with anything now a days to avoid the truth and facts as we comprehend them.


that was good...made my morning...

I guess straws are running short.




posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by edmc^2
 



Sure blame the manufacturer for pilot error.


We really need to work on understanding each other.

If we were created by an "intelligent designer" that means that choking deaths could have been fixed by separating the esophagus and larynx. If someone mistakenly chokes, it is God's fault for implementing a poor design.

If you create a car that is poorly designed where your occupants could get into an accident because of your design...you would be an incompetent designer.

It's not hard to wrap your head around. God sucks at engineering...or he's a teenager playing The Sims.


All correct, same goes for banging your funny bone or the eye being back to front all human senses have no protective mechanism for damage and are very fragile.

To add to that, if we were created by something intelligent then why is the Universe so incredibly huge and the Earth a pin prick in comparison. If we were created in his image why can we interact with 4% of matter? If it was created/designed it's a pretty terrible one. It doesn't make sense.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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spy66

I do agree that the whole universe and all life within it evolved over time. But that there is no designer is just one opinion against another. It has never been disproved that our universe with all life included is not not part of a design.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)


It's never been disproven my cat didn't create it, that doesn't mean he did. It's impossible to prove a negative so there's no point considering something created the Universe until we see evidence to suggest that is the case.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:02 PM
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bastion

LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by edmc^2
 



Sure blame the manufacturer for pilot error.


We really need to work on understanding each other.

If we were created by an "intelligent designer" that means that choking deaths could have been fixed by separating the esophagus and larynx. If someone mistakenly chokes, it is God's fault for implementing a poor design.

If you create a car that is poorly designed where your occupants could get into an accident because of your design...you would be an incompetent designer.

It's not hard to wrap your head around. God sucks at engineering...or he's a teenager playing The Sims.


All correct, same goes for banging your funny bone or the eye being back to front all human senses have no protective mechanism for damage and are very fragile.

To add to that, if we were created by something intelligent then why is the Universe so incredibly huge and the Earth a pin prick in comparison. If we were created in his image why can we interact with 4% of matter? If it was created/designed it's a pretty terrible one. It doesn't make sense.


There's also this thing people keeps forgetting.

We're living in an imperfect system amongst imperfect people (like us) prone to all sorts of maladies, accidents, carelessness, selfishness, you name it.

Thus, things like chocking, diseases and death are (an abnormal) part of life.

All things tend to break down as the 2nd law of thermodynamics states. Entropy sets in as far as we're concern in imperfect system. But, just like the universe that doesn't suffer such fate, we will someday be in the same state.

That is once perfection is restored - problems like chocking will be a thing of the past - even death.

Of course, since these things are not real to you just like infinity or infinite spacetime are not real to unbelievers thus, perfection is an unreality.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by SisyphusRide
 






did you know that the connection of the esophagus and larynx is evidence that god does not exist???


If it is a design flaw or not is really not interesting at all, Its just another human complaint. We humans have no authority in the matter anyway. Each and every one of us have to accept that we are created this way. And we always have to accept it until we physically can go in and tamper with our DNA. In the future we might be able to physically alter our design. But will that make us better and increase our moral strandard?

I think that is a Big No.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:20 PM
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bastion

spy66

I do agree that the whole universe and all life within it evolved over time. But that there is no designer is just one opinion against another. It has never been disproved that our universe with all life included is not not part of a design.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)


It's never been disproven my cat didn't create it, that doesn't mean he did. It's impossible to prove a negative so there's no point considering something created the Universe until we see evidence to suggest that is the case.


Your cat must be very very very old if it is even a option to considder.

You will never see the evidence if your cat hasnt revealed it to you by now.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by bastion
 



If you can honestly say and prove that the laws (noted below as examples) doesn't exist and doesn't apply to the creation of the universe...

Newtons Law of Motion
Fundamental Forces
E = mc2
...just but a few

en.wikipedia.org...
csep10.phys.utk.edu...



...then I agree:




...there's no point considering something created the Universe until we see evidence to suggest that is the case.



But the reality is - they are part of the universe. Hence they exist!

Since they exist, logic says - the existence of a law (any law) necessitates a lawmaker.

Unless, again you can prove that law (any law) can come about apart from a lawmaker.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


These people think that existence happened by randem event.
That means our universal laws came to be by a randem event.
That means there dont have to be a creator. The univers is functioning by its own momentum because of a randem event.

So they have to deny that the infinite is real. If not the random event would never have been a alterative theory.

The infinite is the only true constant. We would have naild their theory in the trash if they had admitte to its existence.

The odds of that happening is slim to non. The only why these people would change their mind is if science admitted it.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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spy66
reply to post by edmc^2
 


These people think that existence happened by randem event.
That means our universal laws came to be by a randem event.
That means there dont have to be a creator. The univers is functioning by its own momentum because of a randem event.

So they have to deny that the infinite is real. If not the random event would never have been a alterative theory.


edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)


Exactly, because to say that a law requires a lawmaker is to accept the unpalatable.

It's like saying "out of something (someone eternal), comes something".

They can't grasp this very simple logic.



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