Why God Exist!!!?

AfterInfinity
Doesn't that kinda contradict the "infinite" part?

www.scientificamerican.com...

the big bang theory has been walked over by atleast 3 theories that I can think of.

Oh, sure...the Bible, the Torah and the Quran.

have you heard of the multiverse? ect ect...

discovermagazine.com...-KIqpo

AfterInfinity
Doesn't that kinda contradict the "infinite" part?

www.scientificamerican.com...

Oh, sure...the Bible, the Torah and the Quran.

have you heard of the multiverse? ect ect...

discovermagazine.com...-KIqpo

reply to post by SisyphusRide


None of those theories mentioned any gods...

AfterInfinity
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

None of those theories mentioned any gods...

interesting huh?

its a fine example of how science disproves your comments about the religions you mentioned.

the comment you responded to was about different types of infinities and theories of the universe... you you felt obligated to include religious slurs towards someone in your reply that is your choice... but it only proves a point about atheists.


to those who are paying attention anyway...

reply to post by SisyphusRide


What's your point?

Seede

Text
For example, we know that spacetime is both uncreated and infinite, that "IT" always existed. Yet why is this NOT proof enough of the existence of an incorporeal uncreated and infinite being - God?

reply to post by edmc^2

 

But then do we actually know that spacetime is uncreated and infinite? Is that your opinion or belief?
Most all creationists believe that spacetime is a creation for this finite universe. I do not think that you have proof that spacetime is uncreated and infinite. How can this be shown?

Of course it's uncreated since it's infinite.

Spacetime has no boundary as it permeates from the infinitesimally small (singularity) to the infinitesimally large (outside the borders of the known universe).

Whenever there's space there's time and space is always existing.

Consider the moment of creation - the "big-bang":

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0bc26b654706.jpg[/atsimg]

If spacetime is finite then this implies that universe will someday run out of space to expand to. Yet based on observations and mathematical calculations there seems to be no end of spacetime.

Besides how do you create something that is infinite and absolute?

If one goes beyond classical physics and into modern quantum field theory, then questions of absolute versus relational spacetime are rendered anachronistic by the fact that even "empty space" is populated by matter in the form of virtual particles, zero-point fields and more. Within the context of Einstein's universe, however, the majority view is perhaps best summed up as follows: Spacetime behaves relationally but exists absolutely.

einstein.stanford.edu...


impossible! Just like waiting for a Corvette Stingray to come out of a non-existent car factory.

But then again, it's up to you to prove this to yourself.

SisyphusRide

AfterInfinity
Doesn't that kinda contradict the "infinite" part?

www.scientificamerican.com...

Oh, sure...the Bible, the Torah and the Quran.

have you heard of the multiverse? ect ect...

discovermagazine.com...-KIqpo

edit on 20-11-2013 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Did you really read and understand the link you posted?

It is talking about unrealnumbers "numbers" that represent nothing physical.

What does it have to do with existing realities?

Question. What number would the real physical infinite dimension have?

Tip; it is not zero.

reply to post by spy66

Is the answer one?

Itisnowagain
reply to post by spy66

 

Is the answer one?

Yes it is.

You can never have enything less than the infinite because it is absolute. You cannever have more than the infinite becausee it is absolute.

You can only have different dimensions that are different than the infinite one. These you can count, but they are all inside the first one.

reply to post by edmc^2


You're assuming the axiom to be true when we have no idea if it is or not. Point being why do you invent an answer instead of admitting the scientific truth that we have no idea yet.

You're not using scientific resonating in the slightest- where's your theory, experiment, results, outcomes and analysis. You're using deduction which is open to error and uncertainty.

We know that the laws of physics break down at a singularity it's impossible to use them pre-big bang

bastion
reply to post by edmc^2

 

You're assuming the axiom to be true when we have no idea if it is or not. Point being why do you invent an answer instead of admitting the scientific truth that we have no idea yet.

You're not using scientific resonating in the slightest- where's your theory, experiment, results, outcomes and analysis. You're using deduction which is open to error and uncertainty.

We know that the laws of physics break down at a singularity it's impossible to use them pre-big bang

Of course it's true:

"Out of something, comes something" is ABSOLUTELY true and verifiable!

INFINITY absolutely exist and mathematically proven!

SpaceTime is to quote:

...behaves relationally but exists absolutely.

einstein.stanford.edu...

On the other hand the axiom:

"Out of nothing, comes something" - is absolute impossibility scientifically, mathematically, logically and commonsensically unless of course you can prove me wrong.

As for the physical laws breaking down at the point of singularity, yes it's been quantified and calculated, but the question is - what are they breaking down to?

Nothingness or Infinity?

Any implication?

What say you?

reply to post by edmc^2


Can you prove to us that the universe is infinite and absolute? A clever man named Descartes once came up with the idea that you can only prove you exist, and only to yourself. "I think, therefore I am." It basically means that the mere state of awareness proves that you exist. Beyond that, nothing is absolute. Even so far as others being aware of your hypothetical existence. I cannot prove that you aren't a figment of my imagination. But for all practical purposes, I must assume that the world around me is real enough to treat it as though it were. Otherwise, I may as well lie down and die.

The simple reality is that this universe may not be real at all. We can't prove that we aren't just heads in jars, supported by the same system we see in the Matrix movies, being experimented on and toyed with by genius mad scientist aliens. Perhaps we're clumps of computer code. We could be virtual pets. We just don't know.

And be 'we', I mean you as well.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Can you prove to us that the universe is infinite and absolute? A clever man named Descartes once came up with the idea that you can only prove you exist, and only to yourself. "I think, therefore I am." It basically means that the mere state of awareness proves that you exist. Beyond that, nothing is absolute. Even so far as others being aware of your hypothetical existence. I cannot prove that you aren't a figment of my imagination. But for all practical purposes, I must assume that the world around me is real enough to treat it as though it were. Otherwise, I may as well lie down and die.

The simple reality is that this universe may not be real at all. We can't prove that we aren't just heads in jars, supported by the same system we see in the Matrix movies, being experimented on and toyed with by genius mad scientist aliens. Perhaps we're clumps of computer code. We could be virtual pets. We just don't know.

And be 'we', I mean you as well.

edit on 20-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

All I can say is this:

Since the material universe according to latest calculation is 13+ billion years old thus IT is finite. As such it had a "beginning" and is expanding, hence not absolute and not infinite.

But beyond its borders is infinite spacetime.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0bc26b654706.jpg[/atsimg]

Yet even though we exist in the infinitesimally small part of the infinite spacetime and almost infinite universe, why does our existence matter?

Why do we exist?

If "nothing" created us then why do we exist?

Why do we have a mind that can travel through space-time if "nothing" created us?

Who created the mind?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Can you prove to us that the universe is infinite and absolute? A clever man named Descartes once came up with the idea that you can only prove you exist, and only to yourself. "I think, therefore I am." It basically means that the mere state of awareness proves that you exist. Beyond that, nothing is absolute. Even so far as others being aware of your hypothetical existence. I cannot prove that you aren't a figment of my imagination. But for all practical purposes, I must assume that the world around me is real enough to treat it as though it were. Otherwise, I may as well lie down and die.

The simple reality is that this universe may not be real at all. We can't prove that we aren't just heads in jars, supported by the same system we see in the Matrix movies, being experimented on and toyed with by genius mad scientist aliens. Perhaps we're clumps of computer code. We could be virtual pets. We just don't know.

And be 'we', I mean you as well.

edit on 20-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

It dosent matter if we are computer pets and virtual friends. The infinite must exist for the computer to exist and use us as virtual pets. Dont you agree.

edmc^2

Why do we exist?

If "nothing" created us then why do we exist?

Why do we have a mind that can travel through space-time if "nothing" created us?

Who created the mind?

The mind dreams that it travels through space and time but you never move.
You are always here and now. All is passing by.

The mind is just stories about before and after, it speaks of other times but it is just ever changing scenery.

It is a total mystery to why there is seemingly something happening.

reply to post by edmc^2

Yet even though we exist in the infinitesimally small part of the infinite spacetime and almost infinite universe, why does our existence matter?

Why do we exist?

If "nothing" created us then why do we exist?

One of the greatest gifts we possess as a species is the ability to ascribe or detract meaning according to how we choose to understand ourselves and the world around us. Prioritizing our comprehension, if that makes more sense. Choosing to disregard, absorb, reject or embrace what we learn.

Through this system, we can create a purpose for ourselves. We can forge our own meaning. You can explore the existence you are given and make a fantastic journey of it, or you can choose to ignore the possibilities and huddle in the little circle you draw for yourself, endlessly staring at the sky and wishing you could fly.

The existential conundrum is, in truth, a window of opportunity by which we may learn to realize ourselves. In my mind, true freedom is freedom of the mind. Freedom to imagine happiness and dare to seek it. But beware those who tell you what happiness is...happiness can only be defined in the most vague of terms, because happiness is a personal relationship with yourself and the world.

If you want happiness, you have to find it yourself. No one can tell you where or what it is. And that's what confuses me so greatly about relying on anything or anyone but yourself to give you happiness. Happiness is about who you are. If you deny yourself, you are denying true happiness.

And that's the beauty of proactive self-determinism, part of my platform as a progressive atheist. You are the key to your own happiness. Hence the reason I disagree with the whole "one path" thing, but that's for another thread.

Also, this is all just my opinion, my perspective. A viewpoint you may not have considered the same way as me.

Why do we have a mind that can travel through space-time if "nothing" created us?

Who created the mind?

Why does it matter?

reply to post by edmc^2

Yet even though we exist in the infinitesimally small part of the infinite spacetime and almost infinite universe, why does our existence matter?

Why do we exist?

If "nothing" created us then why do we exist?

Why do we have a mind that can travel through space-time if "nothing" created us?

Who created the mind?

Right here you are tuching something that moste people have a problem accepting. Exspesialy the people who dont believe in a creator.
They have a problem admitting that the infinite exist because if they do, they have to admitt that it started out as a absolute empty space. Because absolute "everything" else is a finite. If they put their mind to work they will know it too.

This makes the infinite a constant. And they know from math that a absolute constant cant change with out a will to do so. Because there are no other sources present than the infinite.

reply to post by spy66

It dosent matter if we are computer pets and virtual friends. The infinite must exist for the computer to exist and use us as virtual pets. Dont you agree.

Hmmm...where does the internet exist?

“The Internet is a global system of interconnected computer networks that use the standard Internet protocol suite (often called TCP/IP, although not all protocols use TCP) to serve billions of users worldwide.”

From Wikipedia. Simply put, the internet is a virtual representation of numerous physical hubs and connections that store and process data. The internet, however, is not aware of this. It is unaware of the hardware that manipulates its components and fuels its existence. Similarly, we could be Sims that are unaware or unwilling to acknowledge the possibility that we are clumps of 1's and 0's strung together by software and those controlling it.

But to the point: the internet is not infinite. It is limited by the bandwidth and memory of the hardware processing it. Virtual space is determined by the amount and quality of hardware available to manage it. This means that, if we were truly digital figments of a higher imagination, the hardware processing our reality must exist in a different reality. And at that point, you are reduced to pure speculation as to what may comprise this other reality.

In other words, no, you cannot say with any certainty that virtual reality of this caliber, the caliber of this reality, requires infinite capacity of any sort.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Yet even though we exist in the infinitesimally small part of the infinite spacetime and almost infinite universe, why does our existence matter?

Why do we exist?

If "nothing" created us then why do we exist?

One of the greatest gifts we possess as a species is the ability to ascribe or detract meaning according to how we choose to understand ourselves and the world around us. Prioritizing our comprehension, if that makes more sense. Choosing to disregard, absorb, reject or embrace what we learn.

Through this system, we can create a purpose for ourselves. We can forge our own meaning. You can explore the existence you are given and make a fantastic journey of it, or you can choose to ignore the possibilities and huddle in the little circle you draw for yourself, endlessly staring at the sky and wishing you could fly.

The existential conundrum is, in truth, a window of opportunity by which we may learn to realize ourselves. In my mind, true freedom is freedom of the mind. Freedom to imagine happiness and dare to seek it. But beware those who tell you what happiness is...happiness can only be defined in the most vague of terms, because happiness is a personal relationship with yourself and the world.

If you want happiness, you have to find it yourself. No one can tell you where or what it is. And that's what confuses me so greatly about relying on anything or anyone but yourself to give you happiness. Happiness is about who you are. If you deny yourself, you are denying truth happiness.

And that's the beauty of proactive self-determinism, part of my platform as a progressive atheist. You are the key to your own happiness. Hence the reason I disagree with the whole "one path" thing, but that's for another thread.

Why do we have a mind that can travel through space-time if "nothing" created us?

Who created the mind?

Why does it matter?

edit on 20-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Why does it matter?

Simple yet a profound question.

Why does it matter?

It matters because once we come to know where it came from, its origin, "thoughts - the ability to fathom the unfathomable" then we will arrive as to the reason of its existence.

In other words, the foundation of knowing and understanding the meaning of our existence is knowing its origin - where did it all came from?

This is the fundamental truth in unlocking our existence.

Hence, "out of something (or someone eternal) comes something".

Otherwise the alternative is to accept the illogical - "out of nothing (non-existent), comes something."

AfterInfinity
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

What's your point?

did I throw you off there? pitch a curve ball your way?

my point is exactly your question... what's your point?

your attempt to belittle theists was a poor one indeed... plenty f theistic people love science, we created it with the intent to understand the natural world.