Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake - PART 2

reply to post by Purplechive
an (cg) animation does not count as scientific ( or any other kind of ) information . In this day and age to not have real video up front for something this huge is a massive (yet again) failure...but since this is standard procedure with the U.S. controlled (nuker industry as a whole) Japanese government/nuclear industry revolving door Tepco; it is what one would expect.

This 'new because the oldthread was unweildly' thread has definitely lost that scientific vibe ..curious given the seriousness of the NEED FOR TRUTH in this situation .

HUMAN honshu is fubar...sorry

Tokyo is now the doomed megalopolis ...even if it was only air contamination from a one time event..but bio, and civic accumulation have doubled down the near term and the long term is deposition of the saturation of the upper atmosphere...not to mention the oceanic effects

on top of that Tepco/government/military corporate establishments have not ,historically,now, even remotely honest about the danger...from fuku and EVERY OTHER NUKER IN THE WORLD WITH OVERFLOWING POOLS

so..lets do some science;

fuku is one plant with six reactors and six pools, it did not have enough cooling for normal operations let alone emergencies.

Fuku's spent storage pools have ( so we are told ) four decades worth of "spent" (waste) RODS ...

so does every U.S. plant.

there is no plan for what to do with it

dry casks are ( by nrc regulation ) only good for one hundred years ( most have been found to fail within 30 years ) ,but 'spent' rods stay radioactive for over 200,000 years

the entire nuker /military /industrial complex did not make public ( if they knew) that surface boiling from corium ( melt down products) releases uranium and plutonium into the environment at super sub-micron levels ( even possibly single atoms ) and that it IS IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER COOL A MELT DOWN BECAUSE OF THIS ...even if that melt is in a pool ( totally UNSHIELDED ) o core )

so ...the science is...after all this time....what ?

..well from what we've seen obfuscation has become "science" ..or as some would have it "the discussion"

reply to post by wishes


We created Workgroups who follow just one specific Topic,
one Group is looking for Radiation in the Air& Soil,
another one look for the technical Aspects,
one Group look for the Evacuees, etc.!

One Group verified the official Radiation Measurements with
Scintillators and Pancake Devices they found no big Differences,
+/- 15% in the last 1/4 Year

The other Group is the medical Group who work in Hospitals,
Nurseries and Retirement-places, they do not observe any Spike
in the last 4 Months.

Well Organized here and i like this Model because the benefit for
all is guaranteed!

reply to post by Human0815

We created ......

What I would like to know is who is 'we'. Do you work for Tepco or the Government or anyone that works for either?

Thanks

P

reply to post by pheonix358


You should read my Postings with more Attention
because it would spare your Questions!

reply to post by Silverlok


You wrote that it is impossible to cool a Melt-Down,
so i want to ask for a Source for this Claim
or a Explanation, because i know of three Melt-Downs
where the molten Fuel got/ get cooled down.

We have Three Mile Island and Chernobyl where we had molten Fuel
which got cooled down (TMI) or parts of the Core which "run" cold
(Chernobyl)
and we have Fukushima where the molten Fuel still get cooled!

So why do you think that it is physically impossible to do so?

Hi Soundguy,
I mentioned this on another forum very recently and was asked for links. I thought we had images of this barge but I could find none in the thread image reference. I think it would be really good to have evidence of the barge which was used in the very early days to remove those 'somethings' which I belive we speculated were centrifuges but of course, could have been anything. I also think I remember that they were separate to the water barges, but not so sure now I found those other images of white tarpaulins on the water barges.

What was interesting was that the US brought in the barges and that whatever it was was so important to remove it straight away after the (what we now know were) meltdowns.

If you could finf that image, that would be great, thanks. As I said, so many Youtube vids get removed and pages which were once linked get removed too, so the images we have saved on this thread and in our personal areas are possibly the only copies left on the internet.
Q

soundguy
reply to post by qmantoo

 

I am pretty sure I have that in my archives. I don't post here much and I will be away from the computer that houses that one for a few days. If no one comes up with it before hand I will gladly post it. I also have the majority of video and photos from the first several months too if that ever becomes hard to come by.

jadedANDcynical Thanks for the link to the Cryptome site.

Looking at some of those images, the description say that these images are taken while loading up the barges with fresh water - BUT all the Japanese are in full radiation suits BEFORE the barges have come into contact with radiation at Fukushima. Isn't that odd?

Some Fukushima evacuees can never return home

SAPPORO--A ruling party executive has called on the government to candidly specify areas contaminated with radioactive materials from the devastated Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant where evacuees who hold out hopes of going home can never return.

“The time will come when someone must say, ‘You cannot live here anymore, but we will make up for it,' ” Shigeru Ishiba, secretary-general of the Liberal Democratic Party, said in a speech here on Nov. 2.

He effectively called for reversing a government policy of eventually allowing all evacuees to return to their homes.

Ishiba did not mention any candidate areas, but was apparently referring to the most heavily contaminated category among the three types of evacuation zones.

The "difficult-to-return zones," where annual radiation doses exceed 50 millisieverts and evacuees are not allowed to return for at least five years from March 2012, were home to 25,000 people before the Fukushima No. 1 plant was crippled by the March 2011 Great East Japan Earthquake and tsunami.

Ishiba also called for a review of the government’s long-term goal of reducing the annual additional radiation exposure for residents to 1 millisievert or less through decontamination efforts.

Asahi-Source

And Chiba (North of Tokyo) issued a Smog-Alarm,
News are still in the making because Monday was a National Holiday!

As far as i know this is the first Smog Alarm since more than 30 Years,
they claim it came from China, other People say it come from all the
running Fossil Power-plants!

It is very strange!

Edit:
NATIONAL Chiba residents put on PM2.5 alert

CHIBA – Chiba Prefecture urged residents Monday not to go outside because levels of the toxic air pollutant PM2.5 might exceed the provisional guidelines set by the government.

It was the first PM2.5 warning issued in the greater Tokyo region under the new alert system instituted in March.

The hourly average density of PM2.5 between 5 a.m. and 7 a.m. topped 85 micrograms per cubic meter, meaning it could exceed the daily average limit of 70 micrograms specified by the guidelines, the prefectural government said.

Densities of 88 micrograms to 127 micrograms were measured at three points in the city of Ichihara, it said, adding the cause of the rise is unknown.

Japan-Times

seems it may become even more difficult to get any "real" data out of Japan, since good old uncle Abe is trying to silence the masses. i guess the Japanese people are pretty much irrelevant in their own country these days, don't worry, we know the feeling in the USA.

Japan secrecy act stirs fears about press freedom, right to know

(Reuters) - Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's government is planning a state secrets act that critics say could curtail public access to information on a wide range of issues, including tensions with China and the Fukushima nuclear crisis.

CHILLING IMPACT "This may very well be Abe's true intention - cover-up of mistaken state actions regarding the Fukushima disaster and/or the necessity of nuclear power," said Sophia University political science professor Koichi Nakano. Legal experts fear a broad impact on the media's ability to act as a watchdog. "It seems very clear that the law would have a chilling effect on journalism in Japan," said Meiji University's Repeta.www.reuters.com...

don't you just love the timing of this BS, just before they begin the rod removal.

Japan may as well kiss it all goodbye with this type of non leadership.

Human0815
reply to post by pheonix358

 

You should read my Postings with more Attention
because it would spare your Questions!

I know your english is poor, but even so that is NOT an answer. A simply answer to the question is the honorable and cordial thing to do, not dismiss the question with a vague irrelevant response. it is common courtesy to reply properly.

Silverlok
reply to post by Purplechive

 

an (cg) animation does not count as scientific ( or any other kind of ) information . In this day and age to not have real video up front for something this huge is a massive (yet again) failure...but since this is standard procedure with the U.S. controlled (nuker industry as a whole) Japanese government/nuclear industry revolving door Tepco; it is what one would expect.

This 'new because the oldthread was unweildly' thread has definitely lost that scientific vibe ..curious given the seriousness of the NEED FOR TRUTH in this situation .

HUMAN honshu is fubar...sorry

Tokyo is now the doomed megalopolis ...even if it was only air contamination from a one time event..but bio, and civic accumulation have doubled down the near term and the long term is deposition of the saturation of the upper atmosphere...not to mention the oceanic effects

on top of that Tepco/government/military corporate establishments have not ,historically,now, even remotely honest about the danger...from fuku and EVERY OTHER NUKER IN THE WORLD WITH OVERFLOWING POOLS

so..lets do some science;

fuku is one plant with six reactors and six pools, it did not have enough cooling for normal operations let alone emergencies.

Fuku's spent storage pools have ( so we are told ) four decades worth of "spent" (waste) RODS ...

so does every U.S. plant.

there is no plan for what to do with it

dry casks are ( by nrc regulation ) only good for one hundred years ( most have been found to fail within 30 years ) ,but 'spent' rods stay radioactive for over 200,000 years

the entire nuker /military /industrial complex did not make public ( if they knew) that surface boiling from corium ( melt down products) releases uranium and plutonium into the environment at super sub-micron levels ( even possibly single atoms ) and that it IS IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER COOL A MELT DOWN BECAUSE OF THIS ...even if that melt is in a pool ( totally UNSHIELDED ) o core )

so ...the science is...after all this time....what ?

..well from what we've seen obfuscation has become "science" ..or as some would have it "the discussion"

You raise a very salient point again. It seems to me that most people equate "cooling" with resolution of radioactivity. For some inexplicable reason it seems most people figure if water is on the mess there is no radiation of significance being released. The water only means the thing isn't out of control, not that it is safe at all. I an unaware of any study (why would there be one) that shows what kind of radiation is created by pour saltwater on the source. Salt water is highly conductive, highly corrosive and a very different egg then drinking water.

Since there is an incalculable amount of radioactive tonnage strewn around the world - not to mention radiation from medicine, warheads and experiments, it seems utterly insane that so little attention is being paid to this problem of accumulation and disposal after: Fukashima, Chernobyl, 3mi island etc.

LittleBlackEagle
seems it may become even more difficult to get any "real" data out of Japan, since good old uncle Abe is trying to silence the masses. i guess the Japanese people are pretty much irrelevant in their own country these days, don't worry, we know the feeling in the USA.

Japan secrecy act stirs fears about press freedom, right to know

(Reuters) - Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's government is planning a state secrets act that critics say could curtail public access to information on a wide range of issues, including tensions with China and the Fukushima nuclear crisis.

CHILLING IMPACT "This may very well be Abe's true intention - cover-up of mistaken state actions regarding the Fukushima disaster and/or the necessity of nuclear power," said Sophia University political science professor Koichi Nakano. Legal experts fear a broad impact on the media's ability to act as a watchdog. "It seems very clear that the law would have a chilling effect on journalism in Japan," said Meiji University's Repeta.www.reuters.com...

don't you just love the timing of this BS, just before they begin the rod removal.

Japan may as well kiss it all goodbye with this type of non leadership.

"Stop looking at this crisis citizen, we are taking care of it."

I'm not sure if this is the scariest thing I've yet read on the subject or not. It ranks in the top 2 if not.

Additional comment.

In the event that some of the rods break/fall/heat up/explode there isn't much the government can do to keep that quiet. The radiation release will be so massive, they will have to evac the entire area, so you can only keep it SO quiet before it announces itself.

matadoor

LittleBlackEagle
seems it may become even more difficult to get any "real" data out of Japan, since good old uncle Abe is trying to silence the masses. i guess the Japanese people are pretty much irrelevant in their own country these days, don't worry, we know the feeling in the USA.

Japan secrecy act stirs fears about press freedom, right to know

(Reuters) - Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's government is planning a state secrets act that critics say could curtail public access to information on a wide range of issues, including tensions with China and the Fukushima nuclear crisis.

CHILLING IMPACT "This may very well be Abe's true intention - cover-up of mistaken state actions regarding the Fukushima disaster and/or the necessity of nuclear power," said Sophia University political science professor Koichi Nakano. Legal experts fear a broad impact on the media's ability to act as a watchdog. "It seems very clear that the law would have a chilling effect on journalism in Japan," said Meiji University's Repeta.www.reuters.com...

don't you just love the timing of this BS, just before they begin the rod removal.

Japan may as well kiss it all goodbye with this type of non leadership.

"Stop looking at this crisis citizen, we are taking care of it."

I'm not sure if this is the scariest thing I've yet read on the subject or not. It ranks in the top 2 if not.

Additional comment.

In the event that some of the rods break/fall/heat up/explode there isn't much the government can do to keep that quiet. The radiation release will be so massive, they will have to evac the entire area, so you can only keep it SO quiet before it announces itself.

edit on 4-11-2013 by matadoor because: too dumb to not post the entire message. I love how this works. I can add what I want here. Excellent.

It is an interesting axiom: The governments of the world must keep things (the truth) from the masses in order to protect them, while the citizens of the world must not hide anything from the governments in order to protect themselves personally. It has been this great truism that has built the great civilizations of the day, and will insure we downwind of the plant will be the last to know what happens.

matadoor




"Stop looking at this crisis citizen, we are taking care of it."

I'm not sure if this is the scariest thing I've yet read on the subject or not. It ranks in the top 2 if not.

Additional comment.

In the event that some of the rods break/fall/heat up/explode there isn't much the government can do to keep that quiet. The radiation release will be so massive, they will have to evac the entire area, so you can only keep it SO quiet before it announces itself.

edit on 4-11-2013 by matadoor because: too dumb to not post the entire message. I love how this works. I can add what I want here. Excellent.

yeah you can't hide something like that so i guess we can see the NRC announce much higher "safe radiation" levels in the not so distant future. i don't really think the removal is going to work out at all, as many have speculated. just disconcerting thinking the bastards won't get the word out to those who would need it fast, in the event of catastrophe.

Human0815
reply to post by wishes

 

We created Workgroups who follow just one specific Topic,
one Group is looking for Radiation in the Air& Soil,
another one look for the technical Aspects,
one Group look for the Evacuees, etc.!

One Group verified the official Radiation Measurements with
Scintillators and Pancake Devices they found no big Differences,
+/- 15% in the last 1/4 Year

The other Group is the medical Group who work in Hospitals,
Nurseries and Retirement-places, they do not observe any Spike
in the last 4 Months.

Well Organized here and i like this Model because the benefit for
all is guaranteed!

I would agree that being well organized with focused groups is a very good idea. When you say they verified official radiation measurements with +/- in the last 3 months, this doesn't give any information without numbers to compare it to. For example - what were the readings (and locations) 3 months ago and how much did they fluctuate (or increase). Is the 15% indicative that they increased by that amount? Are the readings in the exact location or are they random? And 'where' are they in relation to the plants? South? North? West? And what were the wind directions on the day and time of the reading?

Same thing for the medical group - you say they're not observing any 'spike'? I would think the medical cases would gradually but steadily increase, not spike. So what are the numbers of pre-Fukushima people/children reporting with thyroid problems, radiation problems (nausea, nosebleeds) compared to months after? What kind of sample do they have access to? Is it one clinic with a few hundred patients or hospital records for all of Tokyo? Otherwise these words don't carry any substance without knowing what these are based on.

Interesting....I had a post removed on the prior page for being "off topic". Uhhhh? I don't remember what the post was...but dang I usually stay within very close parameters of Fuku. Anyone capture what I posted that got removed? Maybe I stumbled upon something sensitive/revealing?

Anyhow, here's some photo opportunities with U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz:

photo.tepco.co.jp...

I stumbled across a special Congressional Hearing that Moniz did with Congress on March 30, 2011 (please take note of that date). And also Senator Alexander....uhummm????? It appears that they were rather concerned about spent fuel at that early date also.

www.gpo.gov...

Q - please capture this and store in your fabulous system before it goes into oblivion.

And if I of all people on this thread go "off topic"....whew....very interesting....

- Purple Chive

matadoor

LittleBlackEagle


In the event that some of the rods break/fall/heat up/explode there isn't much the government can do to keep that quiet. The radiation release will be so massive, they will have to evac the entire area, so you can only keep it SO quiet before it announces itself.

edit on 4-11-2013 by matadoor because: too dumb to not post the entire message. I love how this works. I can add what I want here. Excellent.

...... there's an assumption here that in the likely even there's problems with rods breaking/falling/exploding that 'they' would tell anyone anyway..... surely what they don't know won't hurt them! (sarcasm)

reply to post by wishes


There was no significant discrepancies found
between the Official Readings and the Test Results.

Everyone is free to check the Official Readings from
the meteorological Institutes and MEXT via the Internet!

The medical Group do not observed any "Radiation Introduced Symptoms"
like your mentioned ones, no change in the Composition of Blood Cells!

And our Groups are nothing Official,
just Groups of concerned People who are critical with
the Officials!

I wish you would be as critical with H. Caldicott

Something concerning the casks that has not been mentioned on this thread, nor have I seen it elsewhere.

From the video it would seem TEPCO is planning on using the cask to simply transport the rods to another pool. Given the cost and time needed to produce the long term storage casks TEPCO is of course right to save money and not put these rods in long term storage immediately. _javascript:icon('')

The problem I see is they are going to take this Salt Water exposed rod set and put them with regular rods. This seems somewhat insane to me, like putting the deranged animal in a cage with the healthy. They would have no way of clearly determining the integrity of of the rods during transport, so placing one in with the others seems to be a colossal risk. If they do get it out safely, if, it would seem to be best to let sleeping dogs lie on this one and leave it in the cask. But, and for the love of god I can't see why, it would seem they are going to move it AGAIN a few short moments later.

This leads me to the abandonment problem each time. If, say, rod set one makes it all the way over to the SFP for "restorage" what happens if it goes critical while putting it in with its more healthy sisters? It seems to me that if one pool area goes critical, the whole place as to be abandoned. My real concern of course there is how will human spin it?_javascript:icon('')

Human0815
reply to post by wishes

 

There was no significant discrepancies found
between the Official Readings and the Test Results.

Everyone is free to check the Official Readings from
the meteorological Institutes and MEXT via the Internet!

The medical Group do not observed any "Radiation Introduced Symptoms"
like your mentioned ones, no change in the Composition of Blood Cells!

And our Groups are nothing Official,
just Groups of concerned People who are critical with
the Officials!

I wish you would be as critical with H. Caldicott

edit on 4-11-2013 by Human0815 because:
info

I was not being critical, I was asking for comparison rates and actual data. Without a baseline it is impossible to know what has changed and to what degree and therefore makes readings meaningless. Thank you for the information.

reply to post by Human0815


WRONG.

The Chernobyl fuel was not cooled despite EXTREME efforts ( including tunneling under it ), it's surface area to volume ratio given it's internal heat production was finally slowed by the simple process of volumne to surface area reduction ( the same way a wax candle drips: melt then cooling )

AT three mile island they cooled the "containment" structure not the melt mass thus trapping it inside the container...it's why it took them ages to 'clear' it

at fuku MIT has proven that uranium has escaped in " bucky balls" and every single day more radioactive water is produced ...tons and tons of it in fact...

if...

the melted core blobs had been cooled , as you say ,then why is the 'waste' cooling water so hot?

But this lesson is remedial...we covered all this in great detail in the original thread...
if you cannot be bothered to read the evidence , science ( including the breakthrough in surface boiling and sub-micron radioactive particle release that was postulated here and confirmed by MIT ) and implications in the light of the facts I ask you what is your goal?

is it truth